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-   -   How can Kellie Maloney (https://www.thisisbigbrother.com/forums/showthread.php?t=262287)

warrenhill 19-08-2014 03:31 PM

How can Kellie Maloney
 
Be in the betting for .."Top woman"....:conf:


Just cause you have womens clothes on and call yourself Kellie surely doesnt make you a women?


You can put a dress on a pig but underneath its still a pig.....:shocked:

Josy 19-08-2014 03:32 PM

She identifies as a woman, that's why.

Denver 19-08-2014 03:40 PM

She is undergoing transgender operations its not a go to the hospital one day and its all sorted kinda thing

Marsh. 19-08-2014 03:41 PM

:umm2:

LeatherTrumpet 19-08-2014 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by warrenhill (Post 7184980)
Be in the betting for .."Top woman"....:conf:


Just cause you have womens clothes on and call yourself Kellie surely doesnt make you a women?


You can put a dress on a pig but underneath its still a pig.....:shocked:

Yes but its a woman pig in a male pig body.

(maybe a pig is not a good animal analogy here..)

daniel-lewis-1985 19-08-2014 03:50 PM

Apart from hormones has Kellie had anything done yet ie breast implants?

It looks like she may have had her nose and chin done to look more womanly.

BTW op the pig analogy probably isn't the best thing to use.

warrenhill 19-08-2014 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet (Post 7185025)
Yes but its a woman pig in a male pig body.

(maybe a pig is not a good animal analogy here..)


Maybe not....:laugh:


But until you have had penectomies then your still a bloke whatever way you want to look at it...:smug:

LeatherTrumpet 19-08-2014 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by warrenhill (Post 7185048)
Maybe not....:laugh:


But until you have had penectomies then your still a bloke whatever way you want to look at it...:smug:

Helen got away with it mind

JoshBB 19-08-2014 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by warrenhill (Post 7185048)
Maybe not....:laugh:


But until you have had penectomies then your still a bloke whatever way you want to look at it...:smug:

I'd be very careful as to not offend the Transgender community. Kellie identifies as a woman, therefore she is a woman. Simple as that. The smug face on the end of your post says it all really.

Cal. 19-08-2014 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by warrenhill (Post 7184980)
Be in the betting for .."Top woman"....:conf:


Just cause you have womens clothes on and call yourself Kellie surely doesnt make you a women?


You can put a dress on a pig but underneath its still a pig.....:shocked:

Um, maybe because she's a woman? :conf: Mess.

JoshBB 19-08-2014 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Who Is She? (Post 7185118)
Um, maybe because she's a woman? :conf: Mess.

Exactly. If gender identity isn't enough for you OP, she has also had a sex change.

Kazanne 19-08-2014 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Josy (Post 7184982)
She identifies as a woman, that's why.

Has he/she still got her/his bits?

Jack_ 19-08-2014 04:24 PM

She identities as a woman, you use female pronouns. It's as simple as calling someone a name they wish to be known as.

Anyone that can't do this is either slow on the uptake or it says a lot about them as a person. That's all there is to it.

JoshBB 19-08-2014 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kazanne (Post 7185127)
Has he/she still got her/his bits?

she now has the female reproductive parts as far as I am aware.

warrenhill 19-08-2014 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoshBB (Post 7185123)
Exactly. If gender identity isn't enough for you OP, she has also had a sex change.



No he hasnt.....

Hes poped a few pills and put a dress on .....

Just because you say you want to be a "women" doesnt mean to say you can be.

Maybe next time im getting car insurance i should say im a women and go to one of those companies that give big discounts for lady drivers (god knows why..:laugh:)

Jack_ 19-08-2014 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kazanne (Post 7185127)
Has he/she still got her/his bits?

What business is that of yours, mine or anyone else's?

She wishes to be known as a woman, so you call her a woman. Why is this so hard for some people to understand? Oh I forget - it's not, some people just want to show themselves up.

Kazanne 19-08-2014 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoshBB (Post 7185139)
she now has the female reproductive parts as far as I am aware.

Oh right,thankyou Josh,I wasn't sure tbh.:wavey:

daniel-lewis-1985 19-08-2014 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoshBB (Post 7185139)
she now has the female reproductive parts as far as I am aware.

No she doesn't she is pre op.

I think that's a few years down the line yet don't transsexuals have to live as a woman for atleast 3/5 years to make sure they are making the right choice before the surgery will be performed?

Its only been 14 months since he started living as a woman I believe.

Locke. 19-08-2014 04:29 PM

If they have a dick it's a man, if they don't they're not. And apparently they do, so..

Marsh. 19-08-2014 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by daniel-lewis-1985 (Post 7185149)
No she doesn't she is post op.

*pre op.

Kazanne 19-08-2014 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack_ (Post 7185145)
What business is that of yours, mine or anyone else's?

She wishes to be known as a woman, so you call her a woman. Why is this so hard for some people to understand? Oh I forget - it's not, some people just want to show themselves up.

Bloody hell Jack calm down ,you'll be having a heart attack before your 20,I asked a question and it was answered so no need for you to get on your high horse,people are bound to be curious,lots of questions have been asked about various housemates,chill..

warrenhill 19-08-2014 04:30 PM

May i just add...

I have nothing against Kellie or the transsexual community....

It was just a comment as to why kellie can be classified as a women for betting purposes.

Rob! 19-08-2014 04:31 PM

This thread :facepalm:

I love it when transgendered people go in the house - there's still so much ignorance and discrimination that goes on about it - every single time someone goes in who's transgendered, we learn more. They have stories to tell that other people don't have - how they adjust back to a new lifestyle, how they come to terms with their own issues and what they do to fight back. Delighted she's in there - especially with it all being so recent. Kellie is just getting to know herself again and frankly I couldn't be happier that we get to watch her develop.

daniel-lewis-1985 19-08-2014 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marsh. (Post 7185156)
*pre op.

Oops my mistake.

daniel-lewis-1985 19-08-2014 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RobInnes (Post 7185160)
This thread :facepalm:

I love it when transgendered people go in the house - there's still so much ignorance and discrimination that goes on about it - every single time someone goes in who's transgendered, we learn more. They have stories to tell that other people don't have - how they adjust back to a new lifestyle, how they come to terms with their own issues and what they do to fight back. Delighted she's in there - especially with it all being so recent. Kellie is just getting to know herself again and frankly I couldn't be happier that we get to watch her develop.

Is that supposed to be a pun lol.

JoshBB 19-08-2014 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by daniel-lewis-1985 (Post 7185149)
No she doesn't she is pre op.

I think that's a few years down the line yet don't transsexuals have to live as a woman for atleast 3/5 years to make sure they are making the right choice before the surgery will be performed?

Its only been 14 months since he started living as a woman I believe.

My mistake then. I haven't done a lot of research on her.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Locke. (Post 7185153)
If they have a dick it's a man, if they don't they're not. And apparently they do, so..

That's not the case. If someone wants to be known as a woman then they are, by legal definition gender is described as:

"The state of being male or female (typically used with reference to social and cultural differences rather than biological ones):"

Benjamin 19-08-2014 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RobInnes (Post 7185160)
This thread :facepalm:

I love it when transgendered people go in the house - there's still so much ignorance and discrimination that goes on about it - every single time someone goes in who's transgendered, we learn more. They have stories to tell that other people don't have - how they adjust back to a new lifestyle, how they come to terms with their own issues and what they do to fight back. Delighted she's in there - especially with it all being so recent. Kellie is just getting to know herself again and frankly I couldn't be happier that we get to watch her develop.

I wouldn't call it ignorance for most. Some people genuinely don;t know or have never encountered situations like this before. I have no idea what life is like for an Innuit for example, doesn't make me ignorant, I just have never encountered one before.

People are going to ask questions, which is good. Means they will gain more insight into things.

Rob! 19-08-2014 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by daniel-lewis-1985 (Post 7185166)
Is that supposed to be a pun lol.

No :joker:

JoshBB 19-08-2014 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by warrenhill (Post 7185159)
May i just add...

I have nothing against Kellie or the transsexual community....

It was just a comment as to why kellie can be classified as a women for betting purposes.

I don't think it's for betting purposes. She hasn't stuck out as a favourite yet.

warrenhill 19-08-2014 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoshBB (Post 7185174)
I don't think it's for betting purposes. She hasn't stuck out as a favourite yet.



No i want to back the "Top Woman" market and she is the 5/6 fav.....


http://www.bet365.com/home/FlashGen4...16943976998329

JoshBB 19-08-2014 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by warrenhill (Post 7185182)
No i want to back the "Top Woman" market and she is the 5/6 fav.....


http://www.bet365.com/home/FlashGen4...16943976998329

I meant in terms of the forum, not betting odds. They aren't very reliable.

LeatherTrumpet 19-08-2014 04:39 PM

if you did not chose to be the way you are then you cannot judge you can just support

Jack_ 19-08-2014 04:40 PM

I get you weren't trying to be rude Kazanne so I apologise for being snappy, but there's a lot of misunderstanding with those types of questions and most people don't actually realise how potentially rude they're being. Curiosity is important, but so is decorum

Quote:

Things you wanted to know about trans people and were rude enough to ask
Trans people are asked offensive questions about their private lives that would never be asked of others. It's time to stop the talk of 'real' names and body parts

I would predict that every trans person who has ever come out has been asked a variation on the question, "But what was your old name?" Or the ruder version, "But what's your real name?" Or the slightly bizarre, "But what was your birth name?" I'd like to know how many of us are born with names.

The problem is signified by the "but", stated or implicit. It implies that I'm lying or at best being evasive. The questioner becomes a detective and with me as their case study. It is simple: my name is my name, as "real" as yours. Case closed.

Perhaps it's less offensive than a question about one's body or sex life, but the name question is the tip of the inappropriate iceberg. Below the surface, ready to spew forth, lies: "Do you have a penis?"

I am attempting here to set some ground rules for those of you who are not trans – ie those who are cisgender – who, perhaps with innocent intentions, ask these dreaded questions.

You may not think you are one of these people, so I have a quick test. Were you raised in a society that assigns gender, as well as sex, at birth? Hint: the answer is yes. Does that society label gender nonconformity "weird"? Hint: unless you are Native American and were raised knowing about two-spirited people, the answer is also yes.

If you answered yes to both of these, there are two likely possibilities. First, you've never knowingly met a trans person. In this case, you're just yet to realise that you're this kind of person. I know from experience that, even for sensitive, progressive souls the urge to ask about "real names" and intimate body parts is as strong as the urge to sneeze.

The second possibility is that you have met a trans person and that you pried and got away with it. This, my friend, is because you have overwhelming privilege in that situation – the privilege of mainstream society telling you that you are normal and that the trans person is an oddity to be examined. It's intimidating, as a supposed oddity, to stand up for yourself.

Months after I changed my name, an old university friend wrote on my Facebook wall: "Hey [old name], this is [old name], right?"

It felt as if I'd woken up at school with no clothes on.

Maybe he missed the widely shared and commented-on status update where, rather than come out to each individual, I explained in one fell swoop that I was changing my name and now going by male pronouns. Even so, the tone felt almost belligerent.

Being trans has taught me to tread more lightly than my old friend. I know not to assume a person's gender simply because I know what their hair, face or body looks like, even if I've known them for years. It's easy to do this when you know how much it hurts to be misidentified. There are mutual rewards for exercising a little humility when it comes to making others feel comfortable in a society that generally denies comfort to anyone different.

"This is [old name], right?" The certainty of the question jarred. It reeked of presumption and social policing. I had an identity detective on my hands. Usually I'd engage but he wasn't trying to initiate a conversation. I defriended him.

I felt like an outlaw crossing the state line, leaving behind a cop shouting: "You won't get away with these nonconformist shenanigans!" I felt liberated, but it was bittersweet. As a gender outlaw, there are some people and places you have to leave behind for ever. Each schism, though rare, feels like a collective failure.

Leng, who identifies as a transman, recently told me about being at a party where a cis woman followed him around asking about his genitals and telling him he wasn't a real man. Clearly this was extreme behaviour, but what I found almost more shocking was that no one else at the party intervened. To me, this seems like a clear case of harassment, but none of the cis people present could identify with the trans person enough to defend him. They didn't join the woman in a conga line of aggression, but their empathy lay with her curiosity rather than his humiliation.

In my own case, aside from batting away the "real name" and occasional "Do you have a willy?" questions like flies, I've only once been totally knocked sideways by someone else's rampant curiosity. At a family wedding, an elderly relative was behind me as we filed into the dining room. Suddenly, she said: "How do you go for a wee?"

There was no mistaking the question, but because I'm English I let out a kind of simultaneous laugh-gasp apology. Before having to think of a more coherent response, she gasped herself and apologised. She said she didn't know why she'd asked. I do. She was curious and the lack of social conventions around transgender issues makes people do silly things – things they'd never do in relation to cis people.

Frankie, who identifies as trans feminine and whose biological sex is male, says the most common assumption people make about them (they use gender-neutral pronouns) can be blamed on society's age-old representation of the tragic, self-loathing trans woman. Because Frankie has a feminine gender expression and a penis, people assume they must hate themselves. Not only do people assume – they ask as much, as if Frankie is an accessible version of the onscreen stereotype, provided, again for the benefit of their unbridled curiosity.

Of course, Frankie would rather you didn't assume, or at least that you didn't ask. But since you probably will on both counts, they'll tell you they're fine about it, actually. They even use it. For actual sex and masturbation, can you believe? That is, after all, what it's there for.

In fact, since you were wondering, let's clear a few other things up. No, we weren't "born in the wrong body" and no we don't want a "sex change". These terms are created by cis society to make trans people more definable, less messy. But we're not easy to understand and it's not because we're trans – it's because we're people.

I had a roundtable discussion with four other trans people, Leng, Frankie, Jai and CJ. Transition meant a completely different thing to each of us and not one of us is currently interested in genital surgery. We also all have and enjoy sex in a variety of ways. This diversity was not engineered. It occurred as naturally as diversity would at a table of cis people.

A common theme that did emerge, and that runs contrary to a common stereotype of trans people, is that we do not generally have outrageously kinky sex. We may, as a group, seem more open-minded and positive about sex. But, we encounter the same awkward situations in relation to sex as the next person, cis or trans. For instance, there's probably no more universal feeling than CJ's panic when their socially conservative mum stumbled across their flogger. Perhaps anyone in that situation, grasping for a simple, non-sexual get-out, would have explained that it was simply an elaborate duster.

In this article, I wanted to answer some of the common regrettable questions cis people ask trans people – "Do you have a penis or a vagina?", "How do you have sex?" and winner, perhaps, of the confused and misguided question derby: "Why do want to become a man if you want to have sex with men?" My hope was that this would stop the flow of inappropriate questions in one-to-one situations.

But writing this has made me realise that I can't answer them. I can only speak for myself and that isn't helpful to anyone except people I go to bed with. We get asked these questions, not because people are interested in us as individuals. They want to figure us trans people out. They want to "get" us but we can't be gotten. I could fill an entire wiki with the potential answers to just one of these intimate inquiries.

All I can do is flag up the real-life complexity to be found no matter which way you slice society. The rest must be left up to your imagination.

So, enough questions. All you will do is to make another human being feel uncomfortable in your company. Ask yourself instead, would I ask [insert name of cis acquaintance here] about their downstairs? Would I comment on [cis person]'s lavatory or bedroom habits? No, I jolly well would not, come to think about it.

With that in mind, how about we leave it at "I'm as complicated/boring as you are" and talk about the weather instead? Or the latest episode of True Detective? How about them antlers, eh? Crikey.

It's hard to tell people "You're doing it wrong!" without making them feel defensive. Especially in this context, where the motivational force is curiosity – that most innate, innocent and niggly of emotions. But let me state once and for all (one can but dream) that it is not OK to ask trans people about their private lives unless they have explicitly stated otherwise. If you're curious about what's in my pants, grab a crayon and mind-map that doozy. Or knock yourself out on Google. Google doesn't have personal boundaries but I do, and they're probably very similar to yours.
The Guardian

Kazanne 19-08-2014 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack_ (Post 7185197)
I get you weren't trying to be rude Kazanne so I apologise for being snappy, but there's a lot of misunderstanding with those types of questions and most people don't actually realise how potentially rude they're being. Curiosity is important, but so is decorum



The Guardian

Thankyou Jack that was a good read,I am always curious with how people deal with things like that in life,just need to balance it with some decorum:wavey:

Marsh. 19-08-2014 04:46 PM

She should've just been Frankie. Suits her more than Kellie.

Firewire 19-08-2014 04:48 PM

How thick must you be to not realise that Kellie is a woman?

JoshBB 19-08-2014 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marsh. (Post 7185221)
She should've just been Frankie. Suits her more than Kellie.

She apparently disagrees.

Denver 19-08-2014 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marsh. (Post 7185221)
She should've just been Frankie. Suits her more than Kellie.

But her mind doesnt work that way inside she is a woman

Rob! 19-08-2014 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marsh. (Post 7185221)
She should've just been Frankie. Suits her more than Kellie.

Kellie is apparently easier to spell. :hehe:

LeatherTrumpet 19-08-2014 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marsh. (Post 7185221)
She should've just been Frankie. Suits her more than Kellie.

I would be Cassandra and I would have much bigger tits than Kellie has.


Morsh I see you as a Mildred?


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