Scottish lad kicked out of class for saying "there are only 2 genders imo"
 

:shocked:




Good teaching or eerily Orwellian?

So the teachers opinion counts but not the lads ? Wow how arrogant

But there is only 2 genders? We are taught that at school in science lessons. Your either born a male or born a female its up to people if they change sex but still it's two genders?!

How ridiculous ,surely he is allowed an opinion,no need to chuck him out.

When you actually google it, this is what comes up :

either of the two sexes (male and female), especially when considered with reference to social and cultural differences rather than biological ones. The term is also used more broadly to denote a range of identities that do not correspond to established ideas of male and female.
"a condition that affects people of both genders"

2 genders are mentioned but then also "The term is also used more broadly to denote a range of identities that do not correspond to established ideas of male and female." which to me is re enforcing the idea that gender rather than sex is basing itself on stereotypes.

...this is where the whole incident/conversation/context etc would be really helpful...impossible really to comment at all without it tbh...

Totally agree

...I don’t think the tutor is explaining himself very well though ...or has very good control of what was obviously a ‘situation’...

Haven't watched the video yet but yeah, these mobile recorded evidences can be unreliable and without proper context aswell.

Depends how you define gender. Many people use it to mean sex, in which case he is correct of course.

However the meaning of 'gender' has been used another way recently. In short, means the stereotypes associated with your sex that you follow, along with how you 'feel internally'. There are something like 90 'genders' when really, there should be 7billion as its nowt but personality and personal preferences so every single person has a different 'gender' if using the current definition.

It seems quite obvious the lad was meaning gender=sex, so yeah, there are only 2.

Either way, its ridiculous how some behave when talking about this, and kicking a kid out for giving his view is crap, but not the least bit surprising. That kind of thing happens all the time these days.

Of course there are only two genders.

While it is separate from sex, there are still only two.

the teacher looked like he didn't really believe in what he was saying, just following rules so he didn't lose his job...

This is indeed the issue but it's worth pointing out that the term "gender" has a specific origin and definition and the terms "gender" and "sex" are by definition not interchangeable. Notable because if they WERE interchangeable, the term "gender" would never have been required in the first place. Yes many people (mistakenly) believe that they mean the same thing. They don't. Sex is a biological term and there are two sexes; that is scientific fact. Gender is a sociological term not a biological term and gender is a sliding scale... that's just what it is and what it means.

If we're coming down to personal opinion, the accurate opinion of someone who is critical of that scale, would be that the sociological concept of gender is flawed or false in its entirety.

The statement that there "are only two genders" is false, by definition, and not open to interpretation... there are either a multitude, or it doesn't exist and there are none. There are not "two". Full stop.

So there are several issues here. One being that the pupil actually is both A) factually incorrect and B) over-confident in his reasons for being correct...

BUT yes, also, the teacher himself is blatantly totally unclear on this and is waving his authority wand because he doesn't actually know how to academically address the issue (by explaining the difference between the scientific / biological definition of sex, the sociological concept of gender, and the differences between the two) because HE doesn't understand it either.

So... meh. The kid is incorrect but it's also a piss-poor example of effective teaching, especially because the teacher is clearly on the verge of losing his cool when (from what's in the video) there's no reason to do so, and his approach is actually doing nothing but cementing this belief rather than helping a young mind to engage in some less-rigid thinking.

But what can you really expect in a high school teaching environment? Crap working conditions, crap pay, low prospects, little reward. It's not attracting the best and brightest and it won't - ever - until our governments realise that it is the most important thing that we should be spending on. :shrug:

...brilliant post..:love:...if only schools attracted such people as yourself...what an education world for our children, eh...:flutter:..

he was pretty angry

what utter tosh. My kids school is brand new (as are all the HIgh Schools around this region), the facilities excellent, nice pupils and they get half the bloody year off and if they dont like it there are plenty other jobs in this age of record employment

Every advert for teaching and every teacher clearly states that IT IS A REWARDING JOB

Its not Grange Hill anymore:shrug:

I'm not saying it's as bad as retail or other minimum wage slog but the realistic upper salary cap is around £35k and the prospects for development beyond a senior classroom role are low. It's never going to attract the upper levels of academic talent because the pay and prospects are quite simply better and more achievable elsewhere. The profession attracts A FEW who have a genuine passion for education - those teachers certainly do exist - but is it the majority of teachers? I highly doubt it.

agree the real talent goes into the private sector but who wouldn't for extra money?


also totally agree with your main post explaining the whole semantic issue problemo

If the teacher had been more clued up he could have turned it into a great learning experience for the whole class

exactly, why would you kick a kid out just for having an alternative view, his job is to educate him, he was kicked out because the teacher didn't have a clue how to respond...apart from errr 'inclusion'

Did nobody spot the immense irony. "You can't voice your opinions here, we are inclusive" :joker:

So basically you agree with Vicky that gender basically means personality type then?

Exactly, there's clearly huge confusion over this topic but it seems like we're not allowed to talk about it, you're just shut down and that's it

No, that would be a gargantuan over-simplification. There are entire Masters degrees in gender psychology.

So unless people have a masters degree they're never going to understand what gender is?

There are two SEXES, there are lots and lots of genders. Get your facts right!

Obviously they're never going to understand it on the same level as someone who has a masters degree... but there's a pretty huge gap between;

"pfft gender is just a personality type" and "5-years of in depth full time study"


It's like saying the only two options for an understanding of linguistics is "It's words n stuff" vs "Multi-linguist with a PhD". It's obviously possible to have a basic understanding of something, even quite an in-depth grasp of something, without ignoring the fact that it's multi layered and hugely complex?

But why was the kid filming? I reckon he had said something before he got his phone to record that made the situation escalate, I wonder what it was :think:

he got removed from class into another area where the debate continued

The recording is only after being kicked out of the class, so obviously he started filming to catch how the teacher would (or wouldn't) be able to justify removing him. I guess the important thing to remember there though is that only one of the two of them know it's being recorded and is moderating themself with that in mind. We don't know what his wording / tone was like in the classroom before he started recording. So while he makes it sound like it was a reasonable debate in the recording, it's feasible that he was being obviously flippant / insensitive about gender issues before the camera was rolling.

Ok but tell me what differentiates certain genders from others then, can you give me examples? Like I'm not a doctor or a biologist but I have a pretty clear understanding about what Sex is and what the differences between them are. I'm really struggling to get what is different between genders other than personality types/likes and dislikes etc.

there are two sexes and not one person will say otherwise, gender is very different tho and science is on the side of people that contest there aren't just 2 genders

I think that’s a more likely story than he was kicked out for having an opinion, he was probably being a little **** and causing trouble during a sensitive lesson, got kicked out but decided to try and make himself look like a victim of ‘the authority’ who was having his voice silenced, imo anyway

The video says that he got chucked out of class for arguing with the teacher

...he could have also been targeting/specific of an individual or individual pupils...hence ‘this is an inclusive school’ type comments...which is why it’s impossible to say whether he was ‘kicked out for saying ************’ when we don’t know what ************ actually is...

...he could have been mocking../..ridiculing another or other students...

It sounded like a teacher doing a topic he dislikes, wanting to get through it and not wanting to debate out a topic he could care less about. The lad was even tempered and calm, the teacher was angry and not very nice

Seriously? :nono:

..I guess it’s easy to be even tempered and calm when you know you’re recording yourself ..:laugh:..

Exactly! Seems like it could be another case of a troublemaker taking advantage of the current social climate and arguments to me

yes his language was "this is the syllabus and its this opinion or nowt" sort of saying "im told to tell you this opinion and just bloody well listen so i can tick a box and move on"