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-   -   The EU - Referendum - 23rd of June 2016 - in or out? (http://www.thisisbigbrother.com/forums/showthread.php?t=275255)

kirklancaster 04-04-2015 07:27 AM

The EU - Referendum - 23rd of June 2016 - in or out?
 
Do you believe that we should come out of the EU or do you believe that we should stay in?

Please answer and give your reasons.

GypsyGoth 04-04-2015 07:50 AM

I think the EU is one of the best things to ever happen to europe. It's more than just trade and unchecked travel. It gives the impression, that even though we might speak different languages and have very different histories, we're on the same side. What benefits our neighbor might also help us.

So I feel that Britain would be walking away from that. Instead of having a group of other countries as friends and allies, there would be a rivalry there.

Toy Soldier 04-04-2015 07:50 AM

Leaving the EU would be an absolute disaster for many businesses, Farage's claims that he would fund certain things with the money "saved" by not being in the EU are utterly naive. That money would be swallowed up fivefold in lost trade. The immigration issue is a complete red herring, too, EU migration is not the huge drain on the economy that it is made out to be. Even for the anti-immigration squad... It's not a solution. The immigrants that most people have a problem with are the effniks and the Evilmooslims and relatively very few of those migrate from within the EU.

There are, evidently, massive flaws with the way the EU works but the focus should be on identifying and fixing the worst of those problems before abandoning the idea completely. Don't throw the baby out with the EU bathwater just because David Cameron has been exceptionally weak in Europe.

joeysteele 04-04-2015 08:21 AM

I am for being in the EU, as are all my family too.

I believe we are there and need to be there as a full member,All govts; have signed treaties and that is the fact, they are signed.
We just should get on with it now and do all we can to reform the EU from the inside,since outside we would have no influence.

This govt; put in place legislation that if any new treaty comes forward from now, then the voters will be asked in a referendum if the govt; should sign such treaty.

I support Labours plan which is exactly that legislation I posted above but in addition, they have said if a treaty came forward that now involved any transference of legislative power from the UK to the EU then that would trigger from them an in/out referendum.

I have never seen the point of Cameron saying this needed to be settled but waiting 2 and a half years until the election to even start any re-negotiations, and then take another 2+ years to do that and hold a referendum by the end of the 3rd year of his govt;
All conditional on 'if' he got an overall majority

I think it would be an economic disaster and also a status disaster for the UK to leave the EU and to have cofusion and uncertainty running for nearly 5 years from this PM is plain ridiculous.
So I would never in fact support leaving the EU and clearly would never vote in a referendum to do so.

That to me would be dangerous politics and dangerous for the UK as a whole too.
I also believe the voters would never be able to get an informed debate or relevant information from the media we have, as to the EU, in order to make a fully clear minded and balanced decision as to the EU.

Any new tranfers of powers would be a possible step too far now and in those circumstances,I would agree a referendum could be held.
I would still myself vote to stay in however.

LeatherTrumpet 04-04-2015 08:34 AM

Leaving the EU does not mean we leave europe we are in europe, we seem to trade fine with USA China and India.

My business trades world wide and if you were to ask me now who are the nightmares to deal with I would say France Italy and Spain. The best would be US and Canada and surprisingly Russia.

I look forward to a referendum and the debate that ensues

Cherie 04-04-2015 08:58 AM

In

smudgie 04-04-2015 10:12 AM

In.
With changes to the benefit system.

Kizzy 04-04-2015 10:34 AM

In, without a doubt.

MTVN 04-04-2015 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier (Post 7681241)
Leaving the EU would be an absolute disaster for many businesses, Farage's claims that he would fund certain things with the money "saved" by not being in the EU are utterly naive. That money would be swallowed up fivefold in lost trade. The immigration issue is a complete red herring, too, EU migration is not the huge drain on the economy that it is made out to be. Even for the anti-immigration squad... It's not a solution. The immigrants that most people have a problem with are the effniks and the Evilmooslims and relatively very few of those migrate from within the EU.

There are, evidently, massive flaws with the way the EU works but the focus should be on identifying and fixing the worst of those problems before abandoning the idea completely. Don't throw the baby out with the EU bathwater just because David Cameron has been exceptionally weak in Europe.

Quote:

Originally Posted by joeysteele (Post 7681249)
I am for being in the EU, as are all my family too.

I believe we are there and need to be there as a full member,All govts; have signed treaties and that is the fact, they are signed.
We just should get on with it now and do all we can to reform the EU from the inside,since outside we would have no influence.

This govt; put in place legislation that if any new treaty comes forward from now, then the voters will be asked in a referendum if the govt; should sign such treaty.

I support Labours plan which is exactly that legislation I posted above but in addition, they have said if a treaty came forward that now involved any transference of legislative power from the UK to the EU then that would trigger from them an in/out referendum.

I have never seen the point of Cameron saying this needed to be settled but waiting 2 and a half years until the election to even start any re-negotiations, and then take another 2+ years to do that and hold a referendum by the end of the 3rd year of his govt;
All conditional on 'if' he got an overall majority

I think it would be an economic disaster and also a status disaster for the UK to leave the EU and to have cofusion and uncertainty running for nearly 5 years from this PM is plain ridiculous.
So I would never in fact support leaving the EU and clearly would never vote in a referendum to do so.

That to me would be dangerous politics and dangerous for the UK as a whole too.
I also believe the voters would never be able to get an informed debate or relevant information from the media we have, as to the EU, in order to make a fully clear minded and balanced decision as to the EU.

Any new tranfers of powers would be a possib lestep too far now and in those circumstances,I would agree a referendum could be held.
I would still myself vote to stay in however.

Agree with these two. I'm a bit of a Europhile really and don't even like the idea of a referendum on the EU never mind leaving it

Vicky. 04-04-2015 10:44 AM

I don't know, if we stay, we need to start accepting help offered aswell as paying in tbh

For example

http://rt.com/news/uk-refuses-eu-help-467/

What possible reason...

Kizzy 04-04-2015 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vicky. (Post 7681309)
I don't know, if we stay, we need to start accepting help offered aswell as paying in tbh

For example

http://rt.com/news/uk-refuses-eu-help-467/

What possible reason...

That says more about the tories than Europe... they wanted to help and our govt won't let them instead of receiving 22M in specific food aid they would rather have 2M cash to create 'imaginary' jobs.
They won't want to be seen in a negative light our rich nation with our begging bowl out to Europe.

'The government has been accused of putting "anti-European ideology" before the needs of the most deprived people in society after Britain rejected help from a European Union fund to help subsidise the costs of food banks.

David Cameron, who was heavily criticised recently after Michael Gove blamed the rise in food banks on financial mismanagement by families, faced pressure to embark on a U-turn to allow EU funds to be spent on feeding the poor.

The government came under fire after British officials in Brussels said that the UK did not want to use money from a new 2.5bn fund European Aid to the Most Deprived to be used to help with the costs of running food banks. The use of food banks has increased dramatically in recent months, prompting Sir John Major to warn that the poor face a stark choice between paying for heating or food.'

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2...ing-food-banks

JoshBB 04-04-2015 01:19 PM

I believe we should have a referendum, although in which case if I were eligible I would vote to stay in. I do believe in reform leading to more decentralised power though.

There was a recent report which said that EU migrants have a net contribution which is into the billions which we would obviously lose if we left. Also I believe that more european integration is a really good thing and the EU is a good way for countries to stick together. The european convention on human rights is also a good safety precaution I believe, should an extremist party ever rise to power.

The only reason I could see a reason to want to leave is the "free-flow of migrants" farage refers to every 2 seconds, although I would not necessarily want immigration reduced and I would much prefer reform and not an exit.

The EU is not my area of expertise but I do believe it is a good thing to stay in. Kinda hard to learn about when 99% of the media is anti-EU.

Cherie 04-04-2015 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoshBB (Post 7681436)
I believe we should have a referendum, although in which case if I were eligible I would vote to stay in. I do believe in reform leading to more decentralised power though.

There was a recent report which said that EU migrants have a net contribution which is into the billions which we would obviously lose if we left. Also I believe that more european integration is a really good thing and the EU is a good way for countries to stick together. The european convention on human rights is also a good safety precaution I believe, should an extremist party ever rise to power.

The only reason I could see a reason to want to leave is the "free-flow of migrants" farage refers to every 2 seconds, although I would not necessarily want immigration reduced and I would much prefer reform and not an exit.

The EU is not my area of expertise but I do believe it is a good thing to stay in. Kinda hard to learn about when 99% of the media is anti-EU.

Great post

LeatherTrumpet 04-04-2015 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoshBB (Post 7681436)
I believe we should have a referendum, although in which case if I were eligible I would vote to stay in. I do believe in reform leading to more decentralised power though.

There was a recent report which said that EU migrants have a net contribution which is into the billions which we would obviously lose if we left. Also I believe that more european integration is a really good thing and the EU is a good way for countries to stick together. The european convention on human rights is also a good safety precaution I believe, should an extremist party ever rise to power.

The only reason I could see a reason to want to leave is the "free-flow of migrants" farage refers to every 2 seconds, although I would not necessarily want immigration reduced and I would much prefer reform and not an exit.

The EU is not my area of expertise but I do believe it is a good thing to stay in. Kinda hard to learn about when 99% of the media is anti-EU.

you may not want immigration reduced but you may do if you ran a business or lived in an area of very high immigration or perhaps were at this minute looking for a job?

JoshBB 04-04-2015 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet (Post 7681447)
you may not want immigration reduced but you may do if you ran a business or lived in an area of very high immigration or perhaps were at this minute looking for a job?

If you ran a business, surely more immigration would be great because you can have more selection.

With the second point that is understandable in theory, however I do not see that there are a huge lack of jobs. It says it all when the main person claiming such a thing, Nigel, when presented with the actual statistics the 'stats man' claims that they are not that important.

LeatherTrumpet 04-04-2015 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoshBB (Post 7681456)
If you ran a business, surely more immigration would be great because you can have more selection.

With the second point that is understandable in theory, however I do not see that there are a huge lack of jobs. It says it all when the main person claiming such a thing, Nigel, when presented with the actual statistics the 'stats man' claims that they are not that important.

If you are running a legit business and the guy down the road is undercutting every bid you make for new business because he is using illegals or paying well below the min wage to recent immigrants its going to hurt.

It also hurts if your school is spending lots of class time dealing with pupils that cannot speak english at the expense of teaching your child.

This is one of the reasons the NUT is thinking of strikes

Helen 28 04-04-2015 01:44 PM

Definitely out.

JoshBB 04-04-2015 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet (Post 7681476)
If you are running a legit business and the guy down the road is undercutting every bid you make for new business because he is using illegals or paying well below the min wage to recent immigrants its going to hurt.

It also hurts if your school is spending lots of class time dealing with pupils that cannot speak english at the expense of teaching your child.

This is one of the reasons the NUT is thinking of strikes

First point - surely that is not an argument of immigration but one of businesses and the minimum wage.

Second point - that is understandable, perhaps there could be more investment into english language classes for children.

Toy Soldier 04-04-2015 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet (Post 7681447)
you may not want immigration reduced but you may do if you ran a business or lived in an area of very high immigration or perhaps were at this minute looking for a job?

I used the "they're all taken by immigrants!!" excuse when I was supposed to be looking for a job while I was at Uni. Even I knew it was bull****.

The other two points - can you explain why running a business or living in an area with very high immigration is necessarily a bad thing? When it comes to cultural erosion most people's concerns are about "creeping evilmooslimification" or even simply along racial lines - and the vast majority of those immigrants are not European?

Nedusa 04-04-2015 01:48 PM

OUT

Kazanne 04-04-2015 01:48 PM

I don't know enough about it to comment fairly BUT,I don't like the way they interfere with our judicial system,those who know some of my background will know it was the European court of justice that interfered in the James Bulger case and it led to the two boys going from 15 years to 8,for such a heinous crime was pathetic imo,so for that reason alone I'de say OUT,but as I said I am not too well versed on it,but I am learning,so I 'll sit on the fence just for now.

billy123 04-04-2015 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vicky. (Post 7681309)
I don't know, if we stay, we need to start accepting help offered aswell as paying in tbh

For example

http://rt.com/news/uk-refuses-eu-help-467/

What possible reason...

That absolutely beggars belief the tories would have been terrified that accepting help would have a negative impact on their image of doing well in goverment and the false image that their austerity measures were working.
You never saw the snakes complain or have a bad word to say when the EU had the UK include drugs and prostitution sales in the Countrys GDP because that boosted the UK economy by 11 billion and gave the false impression that things were better than they were previously and that their attacks on the working class were justified.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/bu...n-9764998.html

Kizzy 04-04-2015 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobnot (Post 7681490)
That absolutely beggars belief the tories would have been terrified that accepting help would have a negative impact on their image of doing well in goverment and the false image that their austerity measures were working.
You never saw the snakes complain or have a bad word to say when the EU had the UK include drugs and prostitution sales in the Countrys GDP because that boosted the UK economy by 11 billion and gave the false impression that things were better than they were previously and that their attacks on the working class were justified.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/bu...n-9764998.html

Excellent point! Our wonderful, moral, god fearing tories are claiming recovery on the back of crime, exploitation and addiction.

James 04-04-2015 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobnot (Post 7681490)
That absolutely beggars belief the tories would have been terrified that accepting help would have a negative impact on their image of doing well in goverment and the false image that their austerity measures were working.
You never saw the snakes complain or have a bad word to say when the EU had the UK include drugs and prostitution sales in the Countrys GDP because that boosted the UK economy by 11 billion and gave the false impression that things were better than they were previously and that their attacks on the working class were justified.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/bu...n-9764998.html

That's about 0.06% of the total economy, over the time period covered.

Kizzy 04-04-2015 03:51 PM

That's not really the issue is it? For me it's more newsworthy than the constant attacks on the poor such as welfare fraudsters who's crimes equate to 0.00000000000001% of those of big business or the banks.


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