John Major as PM took the first steps in aligning the pound with the euro, and there was a subsequent run on the pound that was an unprecedented disaster. That link only lasted something like 24 hours and cost us a fortune. Thats why Gordon Brown wouldn't join the euro unless all the conditions of our economy were favourable - they never have been - says it all really. At some point in time, the majority of EU members are going to insist that we join the euro or leave the EU, can't see the conclusion being anything other than leaving, the only thing to be determined is timescale until it happens.

Think it does have to be accepted that the Euroscpetics have probably won the argument when it came to the Euro, they did quite fairly warn that when you try and tie numerous different countries with different economies to the same central currency and interest rate then you're paving the way for disaster, and as we've seen when one country goes under it has massive ramifications for all the others as well which thankfully we avoided the worst of

Out. We do more business with the USA than we do with Europe, let's develop that. Also, we already have really close links with Commonwealth countries, links that have been forged for years so I'd rather concentrate on that. We would still export to Europe if we weren't members of the EU just like other non-EU countries do.

You are spot on as to John Major too, that was a total disaster as you point out.

I am not that sure however all the other Nations would insist the UK joined the Euro and you would have to probably have the agreement of all the Nations.

I think the EU would guess that would certainly trigger an in out referendum in the UK, if there hasn't been one before such time,and I don't myself believe now that the EU would want the UK to leave.

:clap1::clap1::clap1:

Our membership of the EU has been nothing but an (embarrassing) unmitigated disaster for the UK. There is not ONE valid (truthful) argument for staying in.
Not ONE.

But here's one of the many for exiting as soon as possible:

TRADE DEFICIT:

(FROM THE PRESS OFFICE OF THE LORD STODDART OF SWINDON -Independent Labour)

"In response to a written question from the independent Labour Peer, Lord Stoddart of Swindon (Hansard 02.12.14), the Government has confirmed that the UK’s annual trade deficit with the EU has soared from £28.5 billion in 2010 to a colossal £56.5 billion in 2013*. (*This was 2013 - it has got even worse since)

Responding for the Government, the Minister of State at the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills & Foreign and Commonwealth Office, Lord Livingston of Parkhead said: The UK’s trade deficit with the European Union was £28.5bn in 2010, £21.7bn in 2011, £39.5bn in 2012 and £56.2bn in 2013.

Commenting on the Government’s response, Lord Stoddart said: “This massive trade imbalance graphically demonstrates that more than 40 years of EU membership has done nothing for our economy and for jobs. It also demonstrates that the situation in recent years has dramatically deteriorated with the deficit very nearly doubling in just four years. It is quite clear that EU membership is a millstone around our country’s economic neck.”

Let's be real.Negotiating terms with Europe is a pointless excercise.You can't negotiate with the EU,You do what you are told and like it or lump it.It will never happen.
Britain needs to control it's own laws and borders and currency.We have no power or influence in the EU,Nothing to gain from being part of it.We will still trade with EU countries and non EU countries if we leave.Defo out for me.

Wise old Independent Labour person.

:clap1: More common sense and wisdom from The Eyeball.

I'm sorry but that says much more about the government since 2010 than Europe. We just don't have anything to export as we don't have the infrastructure we had.... you can't export things if you don't produce anything?
There hasn't been a trade surplus here since 81... when you know who sold everything we had pretty much.

Tbf i would'nt believe much to come from RT.Russian propergana.The anti west slant on practically everything they report is ridiculous.Some of the crap they were spouting about Ukraine and how good Russia is and the evil west while Russia was piling troops and weaponary in and denying it and justifying the annexation of Crimea was ludicrous.

Oh no... it's true enough.

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2...ing-food-banks

If you want to see coverage of protests by our public services in London you have to get it from RT too, I don't know if that's anti west but the media block on it here is a bit antidemocratic.

That is just not true. We have plenty to export and have performed increasingly admirably in exporting our goods to non-EU countries over the same period that our exports to other EU countries has constantly fallen:

"Analysis of Government statistics released in October shows the true size of the EU export market is far less than the 44 per cent* official total.

(Even this appallingly low figure is 'doctored' to appear higher than it actually is because it: "includes goods which go via ports in Belgium and the Netherlands, which are counted as exports to the EU despite them being merely in transit and immediately shipped off to other non-EU countries.")

While exports to the EU are in decline, business with the Commonwealth and Anglosphere markets such as the US, Australia and Hong Kong is booming.
Exports to the Commonwealth and the Anglosphere have reached 33 per cent of the UK total – up from 28 per cent in 1992.

The true export tally was uncovered by anti-EU campaign group Get Britain Out.

Spokesman Luke Stanley said: “These figures demonstrate how redundant our membership of the EU has become to the British economy.
“We must leave the EU now and press ahead arranging free trade agreements with our historic and cultural allies all across the globe.
“From the US and Canada in the west to India, Hong Kong and Australia in the east, the potential markets for an independent Britain’s exports are limitless.”

The export figures, released by the Office for National Statistics (ONS), highlight the decline of Britain’s trade with the other 27 countries in the EU.

The ONS statistics reveal how the 44 per cent figure is arrived at by counting in exports shipped to other countries via EU ports. (Hey diddle diddle just more EU fiddle)

Just to underscore what the above means; if 20% of the goods we export to NON-EU COUNTRIES have to pass THROUGH EU PORTS the bent EU RULES decree that such EXPORTS COUNT AS EXPORTS TO EU COUNTRIES EVEN THOUGH THEY ARE NOT. Which would mean that we are only ACTUALLY EXPORTING 24% to EU COUNTRIES.

You could not make this up.

Ian Milne, chairman of anti-EU business pressure group Global Britain said: “The ONS, in the notes at the back of their annual ‘Pink Book’, draws readers’ attention to this statistical distortion.

“Global Britain has attempted to get the ONS, and their masters in Her Majesty’s Government, to address this anomaly, but the perennially Europhile HMG doesn’t want to know.

“It would be embarrassing to have to admit that they’d been overstating the importance of the EU to UK trade for years.”

Britain’s trade with the EU was one of Lib Dem leader Nick Clegg’s key arguments for staying in the organisation ahead of the European elections in May this year during his television debates with Ukip leader Nigel Farage, and Ukip trade spokesman William Dartmouth MEP said yesterday: “The UK’s rising exports to the Commonwealth and declining exports to the EU demonstrates that there is no economic reason at all for the UK to be in a political union with the low-growth economies of the Eurozone.

“Back in 1973 when we joined the then Common Market, we turned our backs on the Commonwealth. “It was a bad mistake then.

"Demonstrably, it is even more of a mistake in the 21st century.”

Where is all that text from, there is no link?

It is true there has been a deficit since 81.

My apologies - I am crap at this so don't often bother. Here goes;

http://www.express.co.uk/news/politi...ritain-economy

44% is a huge amount, even 36% is over a third based on this anti euro estimate.

Where is it written that it has to be either/ or, if we are trading now with the US, Australia and Hong Kong then what is to prevent that continuing?

There is nothing to stop us continuing to trade with non-EU countries, and the amount of trading we do with them will increase dramatically once we leave the EU and are free from all its restrictive trade policies.

And we will not have a £66 Billion trade deficit and we will not have to pay £10 billion PA for the privilege.

Not to mention taking back control of our own Justice system, borders, and Farming and Fishing policies and a dozen other elements of sovereignty various treacherous governments have signed away to Brussels.

agreed. plus rising powers of china , India and Japan. We can still do business with Europe as normal we just don't want to be dictated by them nor have most of our laws drawn up by these faceless unelected unaccountable wasteful nonentities. nigel farage was right to challenge the European leader , herman van rompoy? with the simple question, who the heck are you? no one has ever heard of you, yet you preside over all of Europe? Thank goodness we kept the pound.

exactly. its the titanic. its too big it can be turned around it cant be changed, get off before it inevitably sinks....587 page constitution , what a sick joke

absolutely spot on and the only reason I ever liked farage in the first place he went to Brussels and he gave it to those dangerous wasteful clowns with both barrels. LETS GET THE HECK OUT OF THIS EU CATASTROPHE....OTHERS WILL SOON FOLLOW

Reading all this,it makes one wonder why the UK ever wanted to be in and why prime Minister after Prime Minister fought to get the UK into Europe in the first place.
We had all that is being said we could go back to above in posts and UK govts; knew or felt that was unsustainable likely.

It would not satisfy the needs we have now to go back to that.
To trade with the EU would likely cost us a great deal out of it rather than in it by other charges imposed on non EU members.
Also to trade with the EU then we would still have to at least probably accept the free movement of peoples from the EU countries still.

We are not this mighty power we once were, to go down roads of isolation and create ill feeling towards the UK even more from even the closest neighbours would be an act of ridiculous irrationality in my opinion.

Even our supposed strongest ally, the USA, would not want to see the UK out of the EU.

There are indeed many things bad about the EU, and also many things good, funny those who want to come out never mention the businesses that have had help from the EU, that maybe they would not have got from a UK govt;
Those who want out, would have us believe it is a totally negative thing for the UK to be in.
Never pointing out any advantage being in.
We should always be trying to reform the EU by building partnerships with the other Countries and thereby likely forcing changes of direction from within.
Something we could never have the slightest bit of influence as to if we were out, no matter what extra conditions were imposed on non EU members to continue trading with the EU.

There must have been big reasons we turned from how things were before and desperately kept pushing to get to be allowed to join Europe.
To leave now would in my view, make the UK a laughing a stock internationally and be really dangerous for both our economy and status,even moreso that a great many businesses here would hate to see the UK leave the UK too.

Go back to how it was before,not for me, over the decades far too many govts; and PMs and in the end the Nation didn't want things to stay that way and maybe for very good reasons too.

1) were talking about leaving the union and the constitution. we can still trade
2) who cares what the US wants
3) why should we hand over our laws , our rules, regulations, our business practices, our sovereignty , our courts , our freedoms, our choices, our autonomy, our sheer identity, to unseen unknown unelected unaccountable unaccounted wasteful useless unproven eurocrats?
3)laughing stock? who cares. were we a laughing stock when we kept the pund and our own interest rates? whose the laughing stock now , us or Iceland, Portugal , italy , Greece, and many more? so peer pressure keeps us into this absurd obscene wasteful closed shop ? rubbish. the eurocrats were wrong about the euro and theyre wrong about the unreadable unworkable constitution that will bring all European economies to their knees and strangle us all.
4) get out and keep trading, others will soon follow.

The thread is about the EU in or out, therefore any observances as to the EU are relevant so don't tell me what I can comment on or not.

To trade with the EU outside, we will not have the terms the countries in the EU have or the direct access either,there will be costs as to that and we will have no control whatsover as to whatever costs the EU put on non EU members trading with the EU have inthe future,if we are out.
Businesses will likely have levies too as their trade with the EU if they are based in the UK and the UK is out.

We will still will have to accept free movement of EU citizens if we want to trade with the EU too,in or out, Switzerland trades with the EU and has to accept that,they recently took a voteas to should they stop accepting free movement of EU citizens and voted against stopping it, since that would probably then affect their trading with the EU.

Peopla against the EU, paint his rose coloured glasses picture of how great all could be out of the EU.
We never hear from them the pitfalls and things that could go wrong and in the end probably cost us more to be doing the same,if we were out.
It may well have been wrong to sing up to so much and sign some treaties in full, however more informed people as to the real benefits of the EU have done so and that is past.
It is ridiculous and petulant to now be saying we shouldn't have signed tis or that so we are going to run away and not play anymore.

Anything new, needs to be considered and maybe rejected but we shouldn't be damaging the present and future of the UK with arguments and possible errors of the past.

What a view to hold, who cares what the USA wants, we have Amercian companies in the UK,investing in the UK and employing milions in the UK.
They want that secure and steady access to the EU,do you really think they are going to want to risk their access to the EU and take on greater charges to have any access to the EU from their outlets in the UK,if we were out.
No they would keep likely bases here but move the bulk of their operations to another EU member country.
leaving the UK with a big problem that the ani EU brigade can never answer.
So the USA's opinion and in fact all countries who have investments here in the UK should be heard, such as the Japanese too.

I don't think we were a laughing stock to keep the pound and not join the Euro at all, it was a decision we insisted on and the EU obliged that desire to keep sterling and still leave the UK an EU member.
Which shows done right,the EU is accommodating since all other nations had to adopt the euro.
It could well happen that other countries decide they want their old currencies back if euro problems intensify again.
the germans have a good number who wnat the mark back now.
Those changes could come from inside the EU not out of it and anyway we are not even in the euro so why you make such a play on that is beyond me,there is not even any pressure from the EU for us to now even join it anyway.
With more and more countries wanting to join the EU,I think your visons of the whole thing collapsing is near impossible.

We are also a Nation made up of 4 separate countries, certainly 2 of them and probably 3 would not want in any way to leave the EU.
That should also be a massive factor to consider in any referendum vote taken.
It is just these little englanders that yearn for the days of the empire and think England particularly is so important it can take on anyone and everything and need no one else now.

Those days are well gone, no matter how great they may have been, the World is a very dangerous place now and if the UK,from its English sector,(and I was born and lived in Worcestershire until 5 years ago,before you insinuate I am not English), want to be separatist and pull away from things like the EU, casuing ill feeling between neighbouring european nations.
I think that threatens the UK both as to security and economically.

We should stay in,in my view, and work to reform the EU from inside, as we did when we won the right to keep the pound showed we can do, to leave the EU for me would be the worst act the UK could undertake and in the end a much bigger price could have to be eventuallypaid for doing so.
I cannot guarantee that wll be the case obviously but then too on the other side,if you were being fair, you could not in any way guarantee it wouldn't be the case either and for me that would be a leap into the dark too dangerous to take and a step too far as to the risks.

No ...No... No

I agree with Truth on this, we should leave the EU immediately as it does not help the UK and has in my opinion been the main reason this Country is sinking fast.

From every viewpoint the EU is a monster, an uncontrolled expensive behemoth, a political organisation that has at it's heart a sinister ultimate agenda to make all European Countries divest their sovereignty to a faceless elite.

This was never what the European Union was meant to be, it was founded as a free trade movement and has been hi jacked to some quasi European super state.

I hate it, I hate the way we do not seem to have any say in what we do and what laws we can pass, I hate the obscene amounts of money we have to pay to keep other lazy,feckless countries afloat.

I really hate the uncontrolled and never ending immigration of peoples into this country some of whom actually want to destroy this country and kill it's citizens.

I hate the way they never integrate preferring to make their home country in our Country and fcuk the rest of us.

I hate the way the Health service has been used and abused by every Tom,Dick or Harry or should I say Mustapha,Mohammed or Ahmed. Our Health Service was never designed to give free healthcare to every sick person in the World.

I hate the way there are hundresd upon hundreds of dirty,lazy immigrants massing in Calais waiting to come over into the UK to bleed it dry. I also detest the way the French think it is not their problem and moan about the numbers and plead for the UK to take these filthy beggars.

We don't them - send them back to wherever the hell they came from.

This Country is Full and is creaking at the joints it cannot cope with anymore immigrants the roads are full, the hospitals are full, the Schools are full

the UK is full............please give us a break.

We need only to trade with Europe nothing more, open borders are a complete disaster for the UK, how more people cannot see that I don't know.

Vote for UKIP..........the only party that has at it's heart the pledge to try and tackle this madness...

-------------- Rant over----------------

From one xenophobic, racist, pea-brained 'Little Englander' to another: :worship::worship::worship:

I very doubt that either of us are xenophobic,racist or pea-brained. I do think however that people in this Country have lost the ability to stand up and shout loudly when their quality of life is constantly denigrated to line the pockets of the rich and powerful.

Not wanting rampant uncontrolled immigration does not make anyone racist, even the label xenophobic is a little hard to apply as the problem is not with foreigners per se, but with the huge numbers of people who bring with them vastly differing cultures together with toxic religious beliefs (which drive their culture more or less).

The Cultural identity of large parts of most of our Cities have had the heart torn out of them in the last 50 years thanks to decisions taken by our Political paymasters, decisions which were never voted on by the GBP, in an effort to sustain or increase profit, we have had to watch the popoulation of this relatively tiny Island increase from 50 million in 1950 to 65 million today and the projection is it will hit 72 million by 2050.

In the same time frame our infrastructure has grown only slightly thus putting huge pressure on all of our services.

By highlighting these issues in no way am I displaying racism or xenophobia just common sense.

We need a moratorium on immigration for a few years and then strict limits or quotas allowing only people who can add benefit or quality into our Country.

As for the EU well this whole failed European project is just giving legitimacy to this very uncontrolled immigration and for that reason alone it has failed.

This is why people must vote UKIP not because there is a cat in hells chance they may get into power, but rather they might make the bigger parties see the will of the people and they may in turn examine their policies also.