[Redway]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Who said it was a conspiracy against women?... I simply stated that 2/3rds of the study were women.

The participants were referred from clinics, the clients were, I'm presuming the locals within the areas involved.

The number of psychotic people in the study were stated, what would the effects of 12 treatments on someone literally at deaths door incidentally?



If you were to commit to a treatment for around a year as your time frame for treatments and frequency suggests then might there not be some improvement if you undertook anything for that length of time?... exercise? counselling? group therapy?

It appears in the study to have been a raging success.... which begs the question why was there the offer to draw your own conclusion?
Would it not be hailed as a miracle, would all these incapacitated OAPS not be flooding in rapture through the clinic doors, blinking into the sun cured?

BIB 1: as I say it's more about what's implied than what's said in black-and-white. It's you who questioned why 2/3 of the referred patients were women and I flipped it back by pointing out that the huge majority of collective patients were white. I didn't question it or allude to it being evidence of systemic racism in the way you implied the slight preponderance of women was an example of sexism in ECT.

BIB 2: first up everyone who's referred for ECT is ultimately psychotic in some form or other. Barking at the moon or in catatonic stupor they're all expressions of psychosis so all the patients in that study were suffering from it. 12 treatment's the minimum number for any course of ECT whether they are at death's door or just have moderately severe depression. It's never a one-time thing even in the lightest cases. I could only assume that the standard 12-treatment course would tone down the illness for at least a time and remove the risk of death in the patient who's at death's door. But you could always ignore that and bring up a few one-off cases of ECT gone wrong. Anything that helps you shame ECT even more innit.

BIB 3: continuation ECT's rare and if it is used only about once monthly. They're expected to be on other treatment regimes according to the nature of their illness. Whatever about being a pure naturalist but why stop at exercise? What's the deal with life-saving treatments when you can use a bit of St John's wart after all?
ECT's not supposed to alter the long-term course of the illness. It's a symptomatic treatment just like any other. You can say it's not appropriate for mild to moderate depression but at least it's more fitting to both grave and mild depression than a bit of jogging is for someone who's emaciated or stuporous from a delusional depression that makes them lie still in bed because voices threaten them with hell if they move left or right. St John's Wart is probably a waste of time for those high-grade cases too.

BIB 4: what are you even on about this time? I don't understand.

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Good grief woman? you have lurched from it being a cure all for mild grade depression to now having effectively the power to raise the living dead....

I have no doubt that once IN that catatonic state this may be an option, but as a preventative strategy, no.

Once again this is my opinion, it isn't hysterical or agenda based, I am taking part in this debate as are others and I a asking you to try to remain civil in your responses.

BIB 1: It's the best treatment for mild and severe depression but it's reserved for the most severe cases. Not least because of the public disapproval that you've done crystal clear justice to on this thread so far. This is one of the things we're talking about.

BIB 2: until you stop skating over the 90% success rate and the lack of ethnic representation compared to your point about women and OAPs being over represented I don't believe that.

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Are you, so you think it is more beneficial to trigger your brains natural responses via a seizure rather than exercise... Why is that?

As seen in the study there are those for whom ECT is ultimately the only option, but not all and by no means mild to moderate depression imo.

I don't think you know the difference between reactive low mood and bona-fide psychiatric depression that just happens to be be not too severe. There's a huge difference.