Quote:
Originally Posted by The Geordie Jesus
^ I don't think any of that disproves that he was acting alone. No doubt he buys into the belief system of IS. No doubt he has an infatuation with them and is desperate to portray himself as one of their soldier. And yes it is also true that IS leaders are inciting and encouraging these attacks, but from everything we can gather so far he has no actual tangible, real world contact with IS or any other organisation. And I don't think we should see him as part of a highly organised command structure any more than we do Tim McVeigh or David Copeland. I do accept though that the problem of extremism is obviously a lot bigger than one man/
I do understand your point but I don't think that sympathising with their motives is incompatible with a condemnation of torture. I've referenced John McCain a few times on this, because he's such an authority on this subject and has such remarkable integrity in being so firm a critic of torture while also staunchly believing in taking strong military action against extremists across the world, and this is part of what he had to say:
Plus for me you could also remove any ethical concerns about torture, any hang ups that it would make us compromise the principals we went to war in the first place on, and torture still wouldn't be justified. Even from a brutally practical and utilitarian view it does not work imo. Patrick Cockburn wrote a good article showing just how misplaced the faith in torture was, and always has been. The same justifications used now are the same that have been used for hundreds of years: http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/...w-9923288.html
This part of the article in particular is illuminating: |
..thanks for the links etc Matt, they're really interesting...I fairly much agree with you on this, I mean that's my instinct and my inclination but I think that really I'm questioning whether I'm being a bit too 'black and white' or whether that's exactly how it should be...whether it's so black and white to say no never ever is torture justified or yes, in some cases it can prove a success to achieve something...because with most things in life/virtually everything...things always have grey elements..it's only the hypothetical stuff that doesn't have that..what I mean is that I know that with some actual experience, some situations will have proved complete ineffectiveness but then others would have been the opposite and may have saved many lives so like everything else..so it's impossible to say it's not effective or it is effective... it would be trying to judge that and taking each situation individually...but I guess that's the key really and why I find it hard to agree with or not be abhorred by it...that really how could you judge something like that/know what the outcome would be....