[Mrluvaluva]

In Scotland, freedom is being challenged. Chris Wilson has been at Edinburgh High Court. He entered a guilty plea for “obtaining sexual intimacy by fraud” and “deceiving” two sexual partners. Wilson’s crime was to tell/show his lovers that he was a man. But, according to his birth certificate, he’s a female.

Chris Wilson had sexual relations with two young women. One was aged 15. It went no further than a kiss. The other was 15 but told him she was 16. She and Wilson did have sex. Wilson told them both he was 17. He was 21 at the time. He’s now 25.

He wasn’t charged with having sexual activity with people below the age of 16. What he was charged with was “obtaining sexual intimacy by fraud”. The State said he had lied about his gender. But he considers himself to be a man.

Should he have stated that he was a trans before sleeping with someone?

Nathan Gale writes:

We find this question easiest to answer with a host of other questions: should a non-trans person have to disclose before sex that they have a medical condition? Or are married? Or voted Conservative? Do potential partners have a legal right to know that you are in debt? Or have an extensive sexual history? Or have been convicted of rape?

These may all be questions of personal morality and may all lead people to feel extremely distressed if they are disclosed after sex. But it is certainly not criminal to sleep with someone without revealing such information.

What about your past do you need to reveal by law before you sleep with someone?

Anorak

Chris Wilson faces jail. Whether you feel it's wrong or not, do you think a custodial sentence is fair? Do you think someone should be able to live life as they are, or should they reveal their past? Or should they just be able to make up their own mind about it?

[Roy Mars III]

yes

[Saph]

If pre-op then yes

[lostalex]

no. everyone has secrets.

We all learn about people slowly. Why should you have to tell them about that specific thing from the beginning?

It should just be natural. When you trust someone then you should tell them. We all choose what to tell people in our own time.

[Roy Mars III]

You don't have to tell them right away when you met them but If you are about to have sex with them, you should tell.

[Redway]

Yeah. A lot of people won't feel comfortable with having a transgender partner and I think it's only natural for people to want to know such information before they get involved in a relationship.

[Apple202]

Yes

[Munchkins]

Postop? tbh im not sure, should we always reveal our medical history :L

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by Redway

Yeah. A lot of people won't feel comfortable with having a transgender partner and I think it's only natural for people to want to know such information before they get involved in a relationship.

what about guys with small dicks, maybe we should put a scarlet letter on them too. I'd appreciate that.

It's only fair for them to have to say what they have between their legs too, right?

If trangenders have to say what's between their legs then certainly we ALL should have to say what we have between our legs.

Let's get our dick size tattooed on our foreheads i say! lol

I'd have no objection to that

[Me. I Am Salman]

yes

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by Roy Mars III

You don't have to tell them right away when you met them but If you are about to have sex with them, you should tell.

This.

[MTVN]

As a rule I would say yes, with this specific article it seems a bit unfair to jail him for lying about his gender when he considers himself to have been telling the truth

[Saph]

Originally Posted by lostalex

what about guys with small dicks, maybe we should put a scarlet letter on them too. I'd appreciate that.

It's only fair for them to have to say what they have between their legs too, right?

If trangenders have to say what's between their legs then certainly we ALL should have to say what we have between our legs.

Let's get our dick size tattooed on our foreheads i say! lol

I'd have no objection to that

That's completely different.. If I dated a guy I would expect a penis (big or small..) not a vagina. It's unfair for whoever they're dating if they're not even being truthful about their gender. (This is for pre-op obviously)

[Redway]

Originally Posted by lostalex

what about guys with small dicks, maybe we should put a scarlet letter on them too. I'd appreciate that.

It's only fair for them to have to say what they have between their legs too, right?

If trangenders have to say what's between their legs then certainly we ALL should have to say what we have between our legs.

Let's get our dick size tattooed on our foreheads i say! lol

I'd have no objection to that

What Saph said LOL. Dick sizes are different to having a different kit altogether.

[Livia]

If someone is comfortable with who they are, why would they try to be with a partner under false pretences? I think it's absolutely wrong to lie to your partner, about anything.

[Vicky.]

I think it is morally wrong.

However I dont think a custodial sentence is right...

[InOne]

I saw an ep of Catfish the other day where it was reversed. The girl had told a guy she was formally a man and he'd accepted it. When they met she admitted she had a daughter and had always been a woman. He wasn't really interested after that... LOL

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

I think it is morally wrong.

However I dont think a custodial sentence is right...

I would feel uneasy maybe but enough to bring court proceedings? no I wouldn't.
This is bound to feed prejudices, it's not like they were i a reltionship and kids were on the cards or anything.

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by Livia

If someone is comfortable with who they are, why would they try to be with a partner under false pretences? I think it's absolutely wrong to lie to your partner, about anything.

But ALL men should be held to that same standard of not lying then Livia. Why should only Trans men be held to that standard?

If a guy lies about his job, or his SINGLE status, certainly he should be held to the same standard. Last time i checked you can't bring charges against a man for lying about being unemployed...but they do it all the time.

I'd rather be with a guy without a dick than a guy without a job. That's just me though.

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by InOne

I saw an ep of Catfish the other day where it was reversed. The girl had told a guy she was formally a man and he'd accepted it. When they met she admitted she had a daughter and had always been a woman. He wasn't really interested after that... LOL

I love that show soooo much.

[Z]

Alex, I think the main issue is that deceiving a sexual partner about your gender violates the other person's sexuality. If a heterosexual woman has consensual sex with a man, and then finds out that that man is actually a woman, she has been duped into having a homosexual liaison. That's surely not okay to anyone?

This seems almost identical to that case that got turned into a documentary not that long ago about the girl who dressed up as boys and tricked different girls into having relationships with her, only for them to eventually find out that she was actually a girl and she'd been penetrating them with a dildo. The only difference in these cases is that the girl in that case was just dressing up as a boy in order to have sex with girls; whereas this is a transsexual. It would be perhaps clearer to form a judgment on this if we knew whether the transsexual was pre-op or post-op, but the article suggests that he is pre-op... if they're post-op, then I don't imagine this would even be in court, it's not the transexual's fault that the women don't like that they were once a woman; so it seems more likely this is still biologically a woman, tricking heterosexual women into doing something that they wouldn't have agreed to if they had known it from the outset. That, in my opinion, is wrong, and should be punished accordingly.

The examples you gave about having small male genitalia or not having employment are superfluous. If a man has a small penis, the woman's gonna know about it, and if he has sex with her using a dildo instead of using his penis - she's still having sexual relations with a man which is something she wants. If she has sex with a guy and, for some reason, him having employment is one of her turn ons, and she finds out he doesn't have one - she still had sexual relations with a man which is something she wants.

[nicole_burks]

I think it's wrong for s/he not tell them. But I don't think they should go to jail over it?

[Marsh.]

It's not the same as lying about your dick size in the slightest Alex.

Whether they said they had a big one or not, you'd soon find out when you're getting down to business.

Not telling someone your business is a prosthetic before getting down to it is wrong.

[iRyan]

It's definitely not something that should result in a lawsuit or jail time. That's utterly ridiculous. Transgendered people aren't trying to dupe or trick their partners, they simply no longer identify with their birth gender by any means (well, they never have in the first place usually) and are trying to move on in their lives as the gender they now are. If the transgendered person is post-op and has all the parts of their desired sex, then I don't see what the big deal is. It's not a homosexual encounter anymore, unless you want to get really technical. The fact that these girls tried to take legal action is just a reflection of their own transphobia/homophobia. Especially given the fact that all one of them did was KISS the person! How the hell can you press charges for that?

I definitely agree that transgendered people should reveal the truth to their partners at some point if their in a relationship with them, but honestly I don't see it as that big of a deal when it comes to a one night stand. That's like suing a woman with fake breasts because you thought they were real but found out they weren't and you will only be intimate with women who have real breasts. If it was consensual and there was no health being jeopardized or at risk, then what is the basis for this being a lawsuit? It's all psychological. The only time I believe it's wrong to withhold sexual information from a partner is if your health is at genuine risk in any way shape or form (ie lying about STDS, HIV, etc) or someone is underage and lying about it.