[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

Coming from a male perspective.

Many women would not be comfortable sharing bsthrooms with men - it doesn't matter whether you agree with that or not, that is how many women feel and such decisions should be theirs, not men's.

It's not just about sex crimes although this is undoubtedly an issue as most victims of sex crimes are female and most perpetrators are male, that is fact.

It is also about about simple things such as comfort, dignity and privacy - things that often affect/bother women more than men. You don't understand that, as a woman I do.

It really isn't for men to say women shouldn't be 'allowed' their own toilets/bathrooms.

Yeah... thanks for mansplaining how women feel

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Yeah... thanks for mansplaining how women feel

There's a rumour going around that Brillo is female... Brillo is yet to confirm or deny. It's all very confusing.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

You don't understand that, as a woman I do.

the plot thickens...

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Yeah... thanks for mansplaining how women feel

Maybe not put well, but I mean't that jack was seeing this from a male perspective. I on the other hand see it from a female perspective and therefore get how many women feel.

If men or women are happy to use unisex toilets that's fine, but people should still have a choice.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

the plot thickens...

I used to think you were female until you mentioned your wife. How mystifying these sites can be.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

Maybe not put well, but I mean't that jack was seeing this from a male perspective. I on the other hand see it from a female perspective and therefore get how many women feel.

If men or women are happy to use unisex toilets that's fine, but people should still have a choice.

Ah right ok, I think I would prefer a choice too tbh.

[Mystic Mock]

I still can't get over that Stretch Armstrong is in charge of the US.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

I used to think you were female until you mentioned your wife. How mystifying these sites can be.

Err that is offensive, I could have been a lesbian.

I'm not, but I could have been.

I feel like the only explanation is that I have a... Creative flourish... In my writing style whereas you come across as harsh and brutish like a Russian ice trucker.

Ironically this means that both of us are non-binary and should probably be sharing the TiBB trans bathroom.

[user104658]

I would just like the choice to use ANY toilet that doesn't contain a urinal of any kind because they are - both in concept and visually - ****ing repulsive. Especially the ones in your more... Down to earth... Pubs. Just a long metal trough clogged up with piss and vomit and more often than is reasonable, a big fat turd.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Err that is offensive, I could have been a lesbian.

I'm not, but I could have been.

I feel like the only explanation is that I have a... Creative flourish... In my writing style whereas you come across as harsh and brutish like a Russian ice trucker.

Ironically this means that both of us are non-binary and should probably be sharing the TiBB trans bathroom.

Ah, it seems things are not always as they seem! Russian ice trucker indeed. Don't know whether to laugh or cry -

[Kizzy]

There's that feminine flourish in your writing style at the end there TS? Well... seeing as it's cropped up in conversation, I'd have to say one of my objections to unisex toilets would be hygiene related.... SOME MEN MISS THE POT OK!

Phew, I feel better for getting that off my chest.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

There's that feminine flourish in your writing style at the end there TS? Well... seeing as it's cropped up in conversation, I'd have to say one of my objections to unisex toilets would be hygiene related.... SOME MEN MISS THE POT OK!

Phew, I feel better for getting that off my chest.

I agree.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Jack_

lol I post this and then this article pops up on my Facebook feed

http://www.newsobserver.com/opinion/...e96746917.html

This author starts out in bad faith argument and never lets up. The Obama administration made a unlateral and, frankly, unconstitutional overreach when it declared title IX that specifically deals with sex includes "gender identity." The same over-reach that Leftist Charlotte did by requiring all businesses to allow self-identified trans people full access to locker rooms, changing rooms, showers of the opposite sex.

It should be noted that this author never addresses the issue of locker rooms/showers/changing areas or even sports. We've seen already situations in which males are competing in girls sports and winning. And the major newspaper in Charlotte editorializing that women and girls need to "get used to" being exposed to male genitalia in their locker rooms.

So this isn't "just" about wondering who is in the next stall in a restroom, this is about telling women & girls they no longer have the right to refuse naked men in their locker rooms, changing rooms and showers. That a woman's bodily integrity, privacy and safety must give way to a larger religiously-held ideology.

First comment on it says it all for me tbh...

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Jack_

On what basis?

There is just no logic to this argument whatsoever. The proliferation of unisex toilets would inevitably mean more people in any one bathroom at any one time. Which, by all conventional wisdom, thus makes them safer.

And again, if you think that right now, this very minute, with the existing set ups we have - 'perverts and rapists' won't enter toilets that don't correspond to their gender because of a sign above the door, you are sadly mistaken. Also again - you're more likely to be attacked at home than you are in a public toilet.

This is true, however at the moment if you see a bloke in the womens, you can tell them to piss off or complain. If this 'gender identity bill' gets passed (in the UK, not USA) then gender identity trumps sex and you cannot do this anymore. You would be committing a hate crime by going to walk into the loo, seeing a hairy biker and walking back out because of this, as this would be bigoted as he 'is a woman too'. Its all silly when you look deep enough into it. Basically, if 'gender'' trumps sex, ****ing sexism can no longer be defined by law either! Sacked for breastfeeding? Not sexist...men can breastfeed too. And so on...

I do feel deeply sorry for transsexual people who have been caught in this cross fire as as I said, they have been using their chosen sex facilities for years and years with no issue. So they are being harmed also by all of this bollocks. A law isn't needed and will ONLY help those wishing to abuse it.

New builds, make everything communal, fair enough. Convert older places if you can afford it. But to say the sexed areas are open to all? What help does this do anyone? It certainly does not help transsexual people who are already using the female areas as they are scared of the male violence in the males...given any male can now stroll in anyway. I use this as an example as I am yet to see any complaints the other way round, infact from what I have seen transmen do not want to use the mens...

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Adam.

Anyway it will never be brought in so you are wasting your time

Actually, it might well be

http://citizengo.org/en-gb/pc/41304-...-identity-bill

Its about to be passed in this country...

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Jack_

Why the **** are you so obsessed with this disturbing idea that all men are child molesters hanging around public toilets?

Adam hasn't said that tbf. Also the overwhelming amount of sexual crime is committed by males. 95% I believe it is. So it kind of is an issue...clearly

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

Coming from a male perspective.

Many women would not be comfortable sharing bsthrooms with men - it doesn't matter whether you agree with that or not, that is how many women feel and such decisions should be theirs, not men's.

It's not just about sex crimes although this is undoubtedly an issue as most victims of sex crimes are female and most perpetrators are male, that is fact.

It is also about about simple things such as comfort, dignity and privacy - things that often affect/bother women more than men. You don't understand that, as a woman I do.

It really isn't for men to say women shouldn't be 'allowed' their own toilets/bathrooms.

Indeed. I have extremely strong views on this topic as its something thats only became apparent to me fairly recently and before that I was a good little 'trans ally' who did not question anything about it all. I still hold the view that transgender people should recieve support, should not be discriminated against when it comes to housing, healthcare, and so on. However I cannot get behind this throwing females under the bus...I just can't. Its throwing males under the bus too but not quite as much as it is mainly females in danger from males, not the other way around.

My husband started off thinking that these laws and stuff only applied to those who have 'fully transitioned' and as such he thought I was transphobic for my views. However once it became apparently that they were not, and that those who have transitioned have no issues anyway...he now agrees with me 100% and also says he would not be comfortable with females in the male loos/changing rooms/whatever. I get that this is likely a rare view as men probably don't really give a crap if a woman sees his dick. But some do.

Male and female are not a state in ones head. They are a biological reality. Honestly..I have seen articles and such claiming that sex is the social construct No dear, that would be 'gender'.

I also do not believe that part in that article that states many young women were being questioned for looking like young boys in female areas. That just doesn't happen, or definitely not enough to make out its common. I know so many butch women and not one has ever had an issue. People do realise that women who are not feminine exist....

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Actually, it might well be

http://citizengo.org/en-gb/pc/41304-...-identity-bill

Its about to be passed in this country...

That maybe time for me to protest on the streets if so.

No way I am using unisex bathrooms. My poor mother would be mortified. What about little old ladies who frequently need the loo - are they really expected to share a bathroom with men of all age groups.

It's ridiculous and really not thought through properly - just a hysterical reaction to PC in my opinion.

[Vicky.]

I would use unisex, no problem. However I also know many women/men would not. As you say older people are unlikely to be comfortable with it, perhaps people who have previously been raped/sexually assaulted who are (sorry) 'triggered' by being in close contact with the opposite sex, especially in areas where one is more vulnerable. I know this won't go down too well on here but...Muslim women too. Yes I know its the religion thats a bit backwards when it comes to womens rights, but they aren't 'allowed' in many places where men are. So for example...a Muslim woman who has been taking advantage of the female only time at the swimming pool...can now not go as gender comes before sex. Honestly...it worries me how many people are unquestioning about this matter and seemingly refuse to look at it any deeper, or have done so and don't give a crap.

[Vicky.]

Also protesting this will get you labelled a 'TERF' mind...which will in turn invite death/rape threats and possibly exclusion from your social groups. As clearly, being concerned about any aspect of this means you actively hate transpeople and deny they exist. There are amusing cases where transwomen have been labelled TERFS...and the term for transpeople who are 'gender critical' or think that 'trapped in the wrong body'/sex dyshporia is a requirement of being trans...is truscum

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

I would use unisex, no problem. However I also know many women/men would not. As you say older people are unlikely to be comfortable with it, perhaps people who have previously been raped/sexually assaulted who are (sorry) 'triggered' by being in close contact with the opposite sex, especially in areas where one is more vulnerable. I know this won't go down too well on here but...Muslim women too. Yes I know its the religion thats a bit backwards when it comes to womens rights, but they aren't 'allowed' in many places where men are. So for example...a Muslim woman who has been taking advantage of the female only time at the swimming pool...can now not go as gender comes before sex. Honestly...it worries me how many people are unquestioning about this matter and seemingly refuse to look at it any deeper, or have done so and don't give a crap.

Good points; especially the point about Muslim women. What are they supposed to do, not go out or hold it.

Definitely not thought through properly by anyone including those who defend minority rights who haven't actually thought about female minorities.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

I would use unisex, no problem. However I also know many women/men would not. As you say older people are unlikely to be comfortable with it, perhaps people who have previously been raped/sexually assaulted who are (sorry) 'triggered' by being in close contact with the opposite sex, especially in areas where one is more vulnerable. I know this won't go down too well on here but...Muslim women too. Yes I know its the religion thats a bit backwards when it comes to womens rights, but they aren't 'allowed' in many places where men are. So for example...a Muslim woman who has been taking advantage of the female only time at the swimming pool...can now not go as gender comes before sex. Honestly...it worries me how many people are unquestioning about this matter and seemingly refuse to look at it any deeper, or have done so and don't give a crap.

I'm presuming a typo there Vicky as I think most older women would be uncomfortable with it.

[Vicky.]

Actually thinking about it...sexuality is no longer allowed to exist by law if this gender thing happens. LGB people will no longer have protections as...chosing sexual partners will only be down to personal choice rather than actually being straight/gay? Which leads us back to gay being a choice as its now just 'personal choice' for a man to be exclusively attracted to the male sex, and vice versa, no different to preferring tall people or whatever? And being straight/gay will be bigoted in itself as it is refusing to acknowledge ones chosen gender identity? This is the natural conclusion that I can see. Though I may be overthinking this. If sex no longer actually matters at all and it is bigoted to say it does (in any area) or that it is more important that 'gender' (which is a feeling in ones head, not measurable) then...everything that has roots in sex is actually bigoted...

[Northern Monkey]

This stuff is crazy really.All these oppressed people all competing for their rights to come first and stepping on each others toes in the process.Sometimes i think that too much 'progressiveness' causes more problems than it solves.

[Northern Monkey]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Actually thinking about it...sexuality is no longer allowed to exist by law if this gender thing happens. LGB people will no longer have protections as...chosing sexual partners will only be down to personal choice rather than actually being straight/gay? Which leads us back to gay being a choice as its now just 'personal choice' for a man to be exclusively attracted to the male sex, and vice versa, no different to preferring tall people or whatever? And being straight/gay will be bigoted in itself as it is refusing to acknowledge ones chosen gender identity? This is the natural conclusion that I can see. Though I may be overthinking this. If sex no longer actually matters at all and it is bigoted to say it does (in any area) or that it is more important that 'gender' (which is a feeling in ones head, not measurable) then...everything that has roots in sex is actually bigoted...

Hopefully common sense will prevail before this becomes a reality.