[arista]

Two pregnant women are among those taken to hospital after dozens of people are found in a container at a port in Essex.


http://news.sky.com/story/1496688/68...ner-at-uk-port



"None are in a life-threatening or serious condition,
the remaining 61 were released to the UK Border Agency officials."

[smudgie]

Hopefully they are all on the next boat back.

[arista]

Originally Posted by smudgie

Hopefully they are all on the next boat back.

Thats what The PM
has instructed

[kirklancaster]

Wow, I'm amazed that the lorry drivers were POLISH. Fancy that.

And as at LEAST 7 of these criminals who VOLUNTARILY ELECTED to enter this country ILLEGALLY have been taken to hospital, who's footing the bill for the NHS and Police and Border Authorities costs and the costs of feeding, clothing and sheltering them?

If actually charged and found guilty, then make the fecking Polish lorry drivers reimburse the UK tax-payer for all the above costs PLUS all the costs of shipping back the 68 illegals - and I mean ALL the costs down to the last penny.

The UK tax-payer should not be one penny out of pocket.

And before anyone posts that I'm xenophobic or racist - jog on because I could not give a toss.

[arista]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

Wow, I'm amazed that the lorry drivers were POLISH. Fancy that.

And as at LEAST 7 of these criminals who VOLUNTARILY ELECTED to enter this country ILLEGALLY have been taken to hospital, who's footing the bill for the NHS and Police and Border Authorities costs and the costs of feeding, clothing and sheltering them?

If actually charged and found guilty, then make the fecking Polish lorry drivers reimburse the UK tax-payer for all the above costs PLUS all the costs of shipping back the 68 illegals - and I mean ALL the costs down to the last penny.

The UK tax-payer should not be one penny out of pocket.

And before anyone posts that I'm xenophobic or racist - jog on because I could not give a toss.

Polish Criminals
infact

[Livia]

I'm with Smudgie.

[Kizzy]

While I accept the actions were illegal, and yes they must return humility costs nothing.

[kirklancaster]

I don't know what you mean by 'Humility costs nothing'? In what context?

What I do know is that blindness, bleeding-hearts and stupidity can cost a hell of a lot - like Democracy and Liberty.

[LeatherTrumpet]

i wonder how many lorries got through

this is probably the patsy to give the border guards something to do

meanwhile 15 roll through

[Kizzy]

In the 'by the grace of god go I' context.

[LeatherTrumpet]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

In the 'by the grace of god go I' context.

its not god its a Scania Arctic

[smudgie]

Take the lorries off them, put them on a list of undesirables and bar them from entering the country again.
Sell the lorries to pay for them all to go back.
Not exactly rocket science, simple good housekeeping.

[MTVN]

Well this thread's a heart-warmer

[Kizzy]

Is anyone surprised it's been suggested though?...

[Toy Soldier]

Can we care for and shelter everyone in the world? No of course not. Should they be sent back if they don't have a legitimate case for asylum? Probably.

You can say all of that whilst also acknowledging that they are human beings, that the lives they have come from are - by our standards - unfathomably horrible. You can acknowledge that you are incredibly ****ing lucky to live in a nation that people are fighting to get into instead of fighting to get out of, and you can have the decency to admit that if you were in their shoes you would most likely be doing exactly the same thing.

The situation is tragic. Yes, we realistically have to turn them away. But we should be doing so whilst saying "We're so, so sorry, but we just can't" instead of "Ugh! Yuck! Back where you came from, scum!". Say it with genuine regret that we aren't able to help our fellow human beings. Not with spite and anger. Not by talking about people like vermin. It's sickening.

[Kizzy]

Nobody has attempted to equate the two... bar you :/

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Nobody has attempted to equate the two... bar you :/

I didn't say they have but there are specifically people on this thread who were outraged about the dog who make their contempt for these people - these humans - very, very clear. I'm trying not to name names because that's "not allowed" or whatever?

My point is that people couldn't understand why the dog thread pissed me off so much at the time. I was just saying. THIS is why. People's ****ing toxic attitudes on this thread when they would claim to be empathic, caring people because they cry over dead dogs.

[Kizzy]

Ah right... as you were then.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Can we care for and shelter everyone in the world? No of course not. Should they be sent back if they don't have a legitimate case for asylum? Probably.

You can say all of that whilst also acknowledging that they are human beings, that the lives they have come from are - by our standards - unfathomably horrible. You can acknowledge that you are incredibly ****ing lucky to live in a nation that people are fighting to get into instead of fighting to get out of, and you can have the decency to admit that if you were in their shoes you would most likely be doing exactly the same thing.

The situation is tragic. Yes, we realistically have to turn them away. But we should be doing so whilst saying "We're so, so sorry, but we just can't" instead of "Ugh! Yuck! Back where you came from, scum!". Say it with genuine regret that we aren't able to help our fellow human beings. Not with spite and anger. Not by talking about people like vermin. It's sickening.

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

You can feel compassion for both, sure, although I still question anyone who says it's equal.

That's not what I have a problem with. That's not what I've ever had a problem with. What I have a problem with is people who have MORE compassion for ONE DOG than for a truck full of human beings. Who rage and spew and bawl and dribble about the "poor dog" but have no compassion at all for "immigrants". No, more than that, they have hatred and contempt for them.

It's disgusting.

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I didn't say they have but there are specifically people on this thread who were outraged about the dog who make their contempt for these people - these humans - very, very clear. I'm trying not to name names because that's "not allowed" or whatever?

My point is that people couldn't understand why the dog thread pissed me off so much at the time. I was just saying. THIS is why. People's ****ing toxic attitudes on this thread when they would claim to be empathic, caring people because they cry over dead dogs.

..so really what you’re saying then is that what you find sickening is the terminology that people use when they have a definite opinion on something...the wording being used on a forum...how someone expresses something and because of that/how they do that determines the person they are, that’s what we judge people on in life...I mean we know nothing about people’s lives, about the people they are..whether they are caring people, whether they are compassionate people..whether they in their lives see any practical thing that they can actually do to make something/some small thing a bit better for someone else, whether it be someone they know or not... or even help care for a poorly animal, one that has been mistreated etc..if that were to particularly touch their heart...but whoever they are as people, they’re being judged by terminology on a forum and whether they choose to join in a discussion or not, so really judging them by how they choose to spend their time on a forum...and if they did spend that time saying, oh how sad, these immigrants will have to go back sadly and aren’t we so lucky etc, etc...then what difference would that particular terminology make to the lives of those people when they are then back in their country...does it make their lives better, will they take comfort or anything of any practical help from those words....whether you, I or anyone else feel any compassion or empathy, it really doesn’t change the outcome of what will probably happen to these people and in this case...and whatever words are used, that doesn’t change it either...neither do those words/that terminology have any measure of how someone should be judged...I could say, oh wow that’s awful, poor things...and then go out and kick a dog...or I could say, ugggghhhh, send them all back home at the first possible and never let them darken our shores again and then take a hot meal to a homeless person who really needed it ...(well, it’s a bit warm tonight for that..)...so which then would actually hold any compassion and which wouldn’t... ....I mean I really don’t understand exactly what you have a ‘problem’ with but it seems to be with words..and tbh that seems a bit silly on a forum in discussions because words are what it’s all about and people will use many different words and many different ways to express themselves and their opinion, that’s just the differences in people ..hmmm, much the same as swearing etc are just words and a form of expression, so are other ways but say nothing about that person...really their time spent off the forum and the use of that time is what determines that more... and possibly in doing things that don’t so much involve words because they’re action...


..and as for humans V animals...there again I think it’s missing the point that some find disillusionment in the ‘cruelty of humans’ as we are fed constantly by the media ..man hurting man etc...and a relating to the vulnerability of an animal, much the same as they would with a child...maybe it’s something also that sparks a particular passion with them to the point that they feel they want to express that passion..then that’s something to be encouraged, not something to be judged and told it’s misplaced...if we did not nurture passion when it’s positive passion and just dampened it down with judgement then the world and every living thing in it really would be a much worse place than it is now...


..and tbh...people can ‘cry over dead dogs’ as much as they feel they want to and they can express in whatever way they want to that they don’t feel themselves that the British economy can sustain immigration because that doesn’t mean that they don’t care and have no compassion... but just for them that it’s not the solution....and nothing in this thread or any other thread makes anyone ‘toxic’ or their attitudes toxic either...anyone can talk the talk of compassion but not everyone walks the walk of compassion and that’s where the real ‘judgement’ lies...but it’s not for you or anyone else to make that judgement of people just because they don’t like particular ways of saying things...or judge ‘where people’s tears fall and for what reasons they flow’ and where they don’t....

[Toy Soldier]

That is a quite impressive bundle of excuses you have there, Ammi. Though I do admire your unshakable ability to think the best of people. I find it somewhat more difficult to believe that those who dehumanise desperate immigrants to the point of suggesting they should be gassed are secretly out at night feeding the homeless.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

That is a quite impressive bundle of excuses you have there, Ammi. Though I do admire your unshakable ability to think the best of people. I find it somewhat more difficult to believe that those who dehumanise desperate immigrants to the point of suggesting they should be gassed are secretly out at night feeding the homeless.

....ok TS..but I think that we both know that it’s not words, it’s not how those words are typed or put together or any seemingly harshness of them that makes a mean spirited person who is lacking in compassion...it’s the person themselves and who they are that makes them that... and I just don’t see the point in focusing on those words etc because they’re only ‘surface’ really...and no, I do actually see the ‘worst’ in people as well..I see it in people because they’ve shown it/shown the coldness of their hearts and lack of compassion, not because of their words...

..it was late at night..(for me..) with my post and my brain wasn't fully working so yeah, the homeless thing was just what popped into my head at the time but I don't think that TiBBers in general are all out secretly feeding the homeless each night...it was just more to say that imo, words don't really tell us much about anyone to 'judge' because we don't know anything about their lives and their actions...words are only words and talking compassion/empathy or lack of it in your opinion does not mean compassion or lack of compassion in that person or those people...

[arista]

Look its Evil putting 68 in a small area
but that large amount gives
the Polish Criminal Drivers big money.

They must be returned to the nation they came from
its now a Polish problem.


NOT OURS

[Toy Soldier]

So people can say whatever they want, and no one can think anything of it at all, because the rancid opinions they openly express online might not reflect their personality in the real world? What they consider and choose to type out might somehow be completely different to what's beneath the surface?

I'm dubious. In fact, in my experience it's the exact opposite. Meet someone in real life and they'll put on their moderate, reasonable, PR face for you. It's when they're online, shielded by a screen and sometimes anonymity, that the dark underbelly starts to show and you really get into the guts of what's truly going on in the back of people's minds. The stuff they wouldn't come out with to a stranger face to face because they know that it will be deemed "too extreme".

Tl;Dr I don't agree, I don't see why the opinions people post on here wouldn't reflect their true opinions and I also don't agree that holding said opinions does not reflect on overall personality.

[Ammi]

..of course, everyone can think what they want to and post what they want to within forum rules...but there is not necessarily anything ‘under the surface’ though/nothing with any deeper meaning other than an opinion that has been posted as the ‘only surface’ there is on a topic but maybe in a way that you personally find not to show any empathy...that doesn’t mean any empathy isn’t there though...I think that it’s obvious that many people are against immigrants in this country and I think there are very good reasons why that thought process would be so, whether I personally agree or not or whether I would like it to be different ...but you seem to be assuming in some cases and reading so much ‘under the surface’ to the point that it sickens and disgusts you...and also judging people for where they are more vocalising their empathies, which doesn’t mean that they’re not there in other issues as well...


..I guess that with your own experiences, you’re talking more of internet trolls...I don’t know any other than stories I read... some I would probably judge myself and have as being complete idiots or whatever but there again, not necessarily all of them because I don’t think it’s always a ‘behind the screen/safety’ type thing but also quite often as well, people with mental illnesses who don’t always realise the extremities of what they’re saying/typing....

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Ammi

..of course, everyone can think what they want to and post what they want to within forum rules...but there is not necessarily anything ‘under the surface’ though/nothing with any deeper meaning other than an opinion that has been posted as the ‘only surface’ there is on a topic but maybe in a way that you personally find not to show any empathy...that doesn’t mean any empathy isn’t there though...I think that it’s obvious that many people are against immigrants in this country and I think there are very good reasons why that thought process would be so, whether I personally agree or not or whether I would like it to be different ...but you seem to be assuming in some cases and reading so much ‘under the surface’ to the point that it sickens and disgusts you...and also judging people for where they are more vocalising their empathies, which doesn’t mean that they’re not there in other issues as well...


..I guess that with your own experiences, you’re talking more of internet trolls...I don’t know any other than stories I read... some I would probably judge myself and have as being complete idiots or whatever but there again, not necessarily all of them because I don’t think it’s always a ‘behind the screen/safety’ type thing but also quite often as well, people with mental illnesses who don’t always realise the extremities of what they’re saying/typing....

Speak for yourself