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28-10-2017, 08:34 AM | #1 | ||
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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...halal-row.html
I support the ban. Britain is generally considered a nation of animal lovers, I know I am, and should not put aside its ideals to appease the religious views of minority groups. We should never bow down to such pressure. There are always other options for those that don’t want to either eat any meat or eat meat that hasn’t been slaughtered in a certain way. To expect the nation as a whole to accept such cruelty when it generally goes against their own beliefs is unacceptable. Animals have rights too. I know there will be the usual cries about killing any animals for food is wrong but at least we try to do so in a humane way. We should not abandon that to satisfy the few. I also abhor any sports that cause suffering to animals and would personally ban them so that argument is not applicable here. |
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28-10-2017, 09:00 AM | #2 | |||
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Halal slaughter should just not be allowed at all; at best, it should be in one of the specialised meat sections you see at the end of the aisles in supermarkets, it certainly should not be the mainstream.
There's always packed lunches for parents who don't want their children to eat normal meat. |
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28-10-2017, 09:10 AM | #3 | |||
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i agree brillo,but so many people close their eyes to how their meat is supplied, it tastes nice so it's ok for animals to suffer,typical human trait, IF and it's a big IF, the humans could be trusted to kill them in the most humane way possible, meat eating wouldn't be such a problem for me, at least in the UK we TRY to keep the animals suffereing to a minimal,some cultures don't they are barbaric,but saying that we have all seen the footage of what goes on in some slaughterhouses it's disgusting, animals suffer at the hands of some humans,even when it says on the packaging they are from free roam farms etc,is all that really true.I'm betting if we had to kill our own meat we wouldn't be eating much. I support the ban too.
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RIP Pyramid, Andyman ,Kerry and Lex xx https://www.facebook.com/JamesBulgerMT/?fref=photo "If slaughterhouses had glass walls, most people would be vegetarian" Last edited by Kazanne; 28-10-2017 at 09:11 AM. |
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28-10-2017, 09:22 AM | #4 | |||
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If we think halal (its called zabiha when it involves the slaughter of an animal for meat) is cruel, then we need to also look at Kosher slaughter. Zabiha slaughter does allow the stunning of some animals before slaughter. The*British Halal Food Authority*approves of low-voltage electrified water baths to stun poultry and electric tong stunning for sheep and goats http://halalfoodauthority.com/faqs
Kosher slaughter, on the other hand, allows no stunning for any animal so shouldn't you be fighting for the humane slaughter of Jewish meat too?
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No longer on this site. Last edited by DemolitionRed; 28-10-2017 at 09:23 AM. |
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28-10-2017, 09:36 AM | #5 | ||
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28-10-2017, 09:38 AM | #6 | |||
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Last edited by Oliver_W; 28-10-2017 at 09:40 AM. |
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28-10-2017, 10:48 AM | #7 | |||
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Killing an animal is never friendly. Some say that Kosher and Halal slaughter is kinder, others say its crueler. Nobody has ever been able to prove that stunning an animal renders it unconscious. Scientists still question if the animal is just paralyzed and can, therefore, feel the pain.
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28-10-2017, 10:58 AM | #8 | |||
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30-10-2017, 06:22 PM | #9 | |||
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30-10-2017, 07:02 PM | #10 | |||
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The scientific facts from Deutsche Tieraerztliche Wochenschrift (German veterinary weekly) volume 85 (1978), pages 62-66
This is a real study that was translated by http://www.mustaqim.co.uk/halal.htm The original study can be downloaded as a PDF A team at the University of Hannover in Germany examined these claims through the use of EEG and ECG records during slaughter. Several electrodes were surgically implanted at various points of the skull of all the animals used in the experiment and they were then allowed to recover for several weeks. Some of the animals were subsequently slaughtered the halal way by making a swift, deep incision with a sharp knife on the neck, cutting the jugular veins and carotid arteries of both sides together with the trachea and esophagus but leaving the spinal cord intact. The remainder were stunned before slaughter using a captive bolt pistol method as is customary in Western slaughterhouses. The EEG and ECG recordings allowed to monitor the condition of the brain and heart throughout. The Halal method With the halal method of slaughter, there was not change in the EEG graph for the first three seconds after the incision was made, indicating that the animal did not feel any pain from the cut itself. This is not surprising. Often, if we cut ourselves with a sharp implement, we do not notice until some time later. The following three seconds were characterised by a condition of deep sleep-like unconciousness brought about by the draining of large quantities of blood from the body. Thereafter the EEG recorded a zero reading, indicating no pain at all, yet at that time the heart was still beating and the body convulsing vigorously as a reflex reaction of the spinal cord. It is this phase which is most unpleasant to onlookers who are falsely convinced that the animal suffers whilst its brain does actually no longer record any sensual messages. The Western method Using the Western method, the animals were apparently unconscious after stunning, and this method of dispatch would appear to be much more peaceful for the onlooker. However, the EEG readings indicated severe pain immediately after stunning. Whereas in the first example, the animal ceases to feel pain due to the brain starvation of blood and oxygen – a brain death, to put it in laymen’s terms – the second example first causes a stoppage of the heart whilst the animal still feels pain. However, there are no unsightly convulsions, which not only means that there is more blood retention in the meat, but also that this method lends itself much more conveniently to the efficiency demands of modern mass slaughter procedures. It is so much easier to dispatch an animal on the conveyor belt, if it does not move.
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28-10-2017, 10:24 AM | #11 | ||
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if there is a demand
then poetry is not the command. its going on and will breed and biting bit is the hand that does feed. rules and regulations some will justify to there interpretations. try our best to keep law break minimal but in the uk the Islamic law does not govern our animal. |
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28-10-2017, 10:52 AM | #12 | |||
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"Animals have rights too"
But let's kill and eat them anyway, as long as it isn't Halal or Kosher...
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28-10-2017, 12:38 PM | #13 | ||
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We don’t have any rules to stop us eating meat but we have some some rules about killing them in a humane way and therefore we should ensure these rules apply to all - no exceptions. Why would anyone want to cause an innocent animal unnecessary pain. Not on in my opinion. How someone treats an innocent animal says a lot about them. Last edited by Brillopad; 28-10-2017 at 12:38 PM. |
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28-10-2017, 12:45 PM | #14 | ||
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I love animals and I also eat meat, I simply accept the fact that regardless of the method, the execution of animals for meat is never pleasant and one method isn't better than another. |
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28-10-2017, 01:02 PM | #15 | |||
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Withano
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I'd say any slaughter house that doesn't do this at the least, shouldn't be running in this country (fortunately, the large majority, halal or otherwise, does do this), and I'd say we need to look for an alternative in the meantime which stops or limits their distress and discomfort too. Lets have a chat about it over a kebab.
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28-10-2017, 11:56 AM | #16 | |||
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People like meat and will always eat it,the least we can do is make sure they live what life they have as good as possible and that they are killed as pain free as possible,if there is such a thing,Can we be trusted to do that? personally I don't think so.
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RIP Pyramid, Andyman ,Kerry and Lex xx https://www.facebook.com/JamesBulgerMT/?fref=photo "If slaughterhouses had glass walls, most people would be vegetarian" |
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28-10-2017, 01:02 PM | #17 | |||
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There is some bad practice Halal, just as there is some bad practice in our slaughterhouses but real Halal should not include factory farming and cattle are not supposed to be slaughtered under the age of two years. One of the things about Halal is, the life of the animal prior to slaughter should be one of the great outdoors.
We have some barbaric practices when it comes to raising animals destined to the meat market and the majority of us are isolated from what goes on. Nobody want's to talk about slaughter practices around the dinner table. We'd rather not know. Most chickens seen in our supermarkets were raised in sheds that resemble small chemical plants and have never seen the light of day until their journey to the slaughterhouse. Even though we no longer produce our own veal, we happily buy it in from abroad. The practice of veal raising is incredibly cruel. We still transport large numbers of animals for slaughter abroad to countries where welfare rules are less strict or non-existent. Suckling pigs are a specialty for dinner parties but suckling pigs are killed with blunt force trauma (usually by slamming them onto a floor) which rarely works immediately with one strike.
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28-10-2017, 01:04 PM | #18 | |||
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28-10-2017, 01:06 PM | #19 | |||
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So long as we are willing to buy cheap meat, we are willingly taking part in animal suffering.
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No longer on this site. Last edited by DemolitionRed; 28-10-2017 at 01:06 PM. |
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29-10-2017, 12:35 PM | #20 | |||
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I agree,but even if people paid more,I am not confident animals would be treated in the kindest way possible,no one is monitoring them really,just randomly undercover people will go in and report on the scum that get their kicks (literally) by scaring and torturing these animals, infact I ask myself can an animal lover ever work in an abattoir ? As for halal, I wont even go there.
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RIP Pyramid, Andyman ,Kerry and Lex xx https://www.facebook.com/JamesBulgerMT/?fref=photo "If slaughterhouses had glass walls, most people would be vegetarian" |
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29-10-2017, 02:08 PM | #21 | |||
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I don't know about halal or kosha slaughter because until its been proven that stunning doesn't just paralyze the animal, then it could turn out that slitting a throat with a sharp knife is kinder and quicker. Having run a livery yard, I've stood with horses killed with a bolt to the head and with horses that were euthanized with lethal injection. Lethal injection looks much less violent to the horse owner but having witnessed both, I would say a bolt was quicker and kinder.
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29-10-2017, 02:17 PM | #22 | ||
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My gut feeling with the practice of stunning, is that it is simply to make the moment of death "more palatable" for the humans who are going to be doing the eating. They don't thrash and flop around and let out a death rattle so it all LOOKS kinder and more peaceful... the truth in all probability, is that they're still feeling all of the same things, they've just had their body's ability to react removed. Not only that but it actually draws out the process; stun - killing blow - death takes at least twice as long as just killing blow - death (which is seconds, if done properly). Stunning is for us... not for the animals. Sanitizing death for a comfortable existence. I stand by what I originally said; anyone who can't get their head around the realities of animal slaughter, and can't comfortably ignore it without the "white lies" about it, shouldn't be eating meat at all. |
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28-10-2017, 12:31 PM | #23 | |||
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Withano
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It was my understanding that the largest (pretty much, the only) halal supplier in the UK does stun its animals before draining their blood... making it really rather similar to any other meat product in your local shops... so I cant really see the logic in it? Banning the suppliers that do not stun its animals first seems a more logical conclusion to me.
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29-10-2017, 11:18 AM | #24 | |||
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In my view there should be no circumstances where the humane treatment of animals has to give way to fad, whim or archaic religious rules written at a time when there were no humane alternatives.
Comparing this group to that group is irrelevant, it should always be about the welfare of the animals. We don't live in 2 BC. Ritual slaughter should not be allowed in this country under any circumstances. There are other practices that also should not happen and slaughter houses need more strict regulations BUT that does not excuse or validate ritual slaughter. In fact bring on lab grown meat.
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In ancient times cats were worshipped as gods; they have not forgotten this. Terry Pratchett “I am thrilled to be alive at time when humanity is pushing against the limits of understanding. Even better, we may eventually discover that there are no limits.” ― Richard Dawkins Last edited by jaxie; 29-10-2017 at 11:26 AM. |
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29-10-2017, 12:09 PM | #25 | ||
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