[Niamh.]

Is this what you were talking about Vicky? Can't believe I side with Piers

Can't post the video directly for some reason


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lKBE...MorningBritain

[Vicky.]

Yeah. I cannot believe this is even being considered. And yes, it feels very odd to be on Piers side..so very strange. Its just nonsensical really. Male and female are no longer actual things but are simply a feeling for one to 'self declare' and then the rest of the world has to buy into the 'brain sex/gender identity/soul' religion else be named bigoted. Its quite insulting tbh.

Since when has the right of some males to feel validated in their 'womanhood' been more important than the actual women who need to use these services as they are escaping (on the whole) abusive males. That its even being considered, seriously, is beyond belief.

I like that he brought up prisons (thats already happened and conitnues to happen) and sport also. Very important areas.

And for gods sake, I am so sick of the 'but lesbians' argument when it comes to male people. Its so ****ing homophobic. Lesbians are not men. Male lesbians do not exist, contrary to what the transcult would have you believe.

And of course transwomen require different services to actual women. 'I am a womaaaan' again from India

'You are impying transgender women are a threat'. Nah. Knowing that male people are a threat (on the whole, not all men and such) to female ones is not wrong. And this is about any man being able to declare himself a woman.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Yeah. I cannot believe this is even being considered. And yes, it feels very odd to be on Piers side..so very strange. Its just nonsensical really. Male and female are no longer actual things but are simply a feeling for one to 'self declare' and then the rest of the world has to buy into the 'brain sex/gender identity/soul' religion else be named bigoted. Its quite insulting tbh.

Since when has the right of some males to feel validated in their 'womanhood' been more important than the actual women who need to use these services as they are escaping (on the whole) abusive males. That its even being considered, seriously, is beyond belief.

I like that he brought up prisons (thats already happened and conitnues to happen) and sport also. Very important areas.

And for gods sake, I am so sick of the 'but lesbians' argument when it comes to male people. Its so ****ing homophobic. Lesbians are not men. Male lesbians do not exist, contrary to what the transcult would have you believe.

And of course transwomen require different services to actual women. 'I am a womaaaan' again from India

'You are impying transgender women are a threat'. Nah. Knowing that male people are a threat (on the whole, not all men and such) to female ones is not wrong. And this is about any man being able to declare himself a woman.

Give them enough rope I say - their demands get more ridiculous by the day and people are seeing that. The tide will turn against them soon enough if they don’t stop all the self-indulgent, controlling behaviour.

[Niamh.]

Its incredibly narcissistic aswell to fight for something that will make abuse victims uncomfortable and decide you're more important

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Its incredibly narcissistic aswell to fight for something that will make abuse victims uncomfortable and decide you're more important

Yeah this. I'm stunned that anyone would give her airtime for this even. It's totally unacceptable.

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by jaxie

Yeah this. I'm stunned that anyone would give her airtime for this even. It's totally unacceptable.

This^

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Its incredibly narcissistic aswell to fight for something that will make abuse victims uncomfortable and decide you're more important

Good point.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Livia

God point.

Freudian slip?

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Freudian slip?

Hahahaaaaaaaa.... I thought I'd edited that before anyone saw, should have known you'd be too quick for me.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Livia

Hahahaaaaaaaa.... I thought I'd edited that before anyone saw, should have known you'd be too quick for me.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Its incredibly narcissistic aswell to fight for something that will make abuse victims uncomfortable and decide you're more important

Of course it is. And everyone will be able to see that surely..

The reason this all came about was because womens aid is talking about letting self identified women (note. No changes, just any male who says he is a woman) work in womens refuges. They already allow transgender women to use their services on a case by case basis.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Of course it is. And everyone will be able to see that surely..

The reason this all came about was because womens aid is talking about letting self identified women (note. No changes, just any male who says he is a woman) work in womens refuges. They already allow transgender women to use their services on a case by case basis.

Like how caring and empathetic would you be towards the victims if you're willing to take the job in the first place that may straight away make them feel scared and intimidated

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Like how caring and empathetic would you be towards the victims if you're willing to take the job in the first place that may straight away make them feel scared and intimidated

Yup. Its just awful. And honestly, shame on womens aid for considering this. Unless they are considering it as they have already been threatened with being sued because they do not consider male people to be female of course. There was a case in canada where a trans identified male (post op transexual, which is slightly different, but still a male person) held a rape crisis centre up in litigation for 12 years and near bankrupted them, as they said they did not employ males.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kimber...pe_Relief_Case

Wiki but has links.

Sorry, but anyone who would do this is an utter arsehole and clearly does not care about the people these places are meant to help.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Yup. Its just awful. And honestly, shame on womens aid for considering this. Unless they are considering it as they have already been threatened with being sued because they do not consider male people to be female of course. There was a case in canada where a trans identified male (post op transexual, which is slightly different, but still a male person) held a rape crisis centre up in litigation for 12 years and near bankrupted them, as they said they did not employ males.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kimber...pe_Relief_Case

Wiki but has links.

Sorry, but anyone who would do this is an utter arsehole and clearly does not care about the people these places are meant to help.

For someone who shouts how they are a real woman all the time, she doesn't seem to have any understanding or camaraderie with us, she seems to take the side of men alot more. I mean she basically tried to down play abused womens needs for refuges there in that video by saying but men had a bad year too

[Livia]

India has been a man for most of her life, she thinks like a man. She stated in that interview which was centred on the abuse of women, how sorry she feels for men. The other woman on the panel replied with statistics about how many women were murdered and raped last year but India talked right over the top of her.

And I agreed with Piers Morgan. Ladies, we are down the rabbit hole.

[Tom4784]

I don't think that, if you're pre-op, you should not be allowed into places that are restricted to the gender you haven't transitioned to yet.

I don't see a problem with post op trans people using women's shelters though.

[ethanjames]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

I don't think that, if you're pre-op, you should not be allowed into places that are restricted to the gender you haven't transitioned to yet.

I don't see a problem with post op trans people using women's shelters though.

pretty much how I feel if they have a doctors diagnosis of gender dysphoria idk why not I mean they are women so

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by ethanjames

pretty much how I feel if they have a doctors diagnosis of gender dysphoria idk why not I mean they are women so

A diagnosis of gender dysphoria actually makes you the opposite sex?

[ethanjames]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

A diagnosis of gender dysphoria actually makes you the opposite sex?

a diagnosis of gender dysphoria from a doctor shows that you mentally the opposite sex and not just a "man wearing a dress" if that makes sense?

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by ethanjames

a diagnosis of gender dysphoria from a doctor shows that you mentally the opposite sex and not just a "man wearing a dress" if that makes sense?

I don't believe in brain sex tbh, but I understand where you are coming from.

I totally disagree that this makes them actually the opposite sex though. Sex is a real thing. Its physical, not mental. And we segregate certain areas of life by sex, not by feelings.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by ethanjames

a diagnosis of gender dysphoria from a doctor shows that you mentally the opposite sex and not just a "man wearing a dress" if that makes sense?

But you would still be physically a man and you think that you should be allowed go and work with women who have been abused by men and in a female only refuge? So therefore abused women's right to feel safe in a women only environment comes second to a man who mentally thinks he's a woman's right to work in that environment?

[Maru]

Originally Posted by ethanjames

a diagnosis of gender dysphoria from a doctor shows that you mentally the opposite sex and not just a "man wearing a dress" if that makes sense?

A doctor can diagnose you with fibromyalgia by touching specific points on your back and asking you if there is pain. That's so you can seek treatment and be approved by your insurance...

They can't do scans for chronic pain (yet) and they can't scan brains to see the gender mismatch, so they can only go based on how you feel... many doctors would still consider both to be psych disorders, and they may say very differently to make you and themselves feel better, but that's what effectively they are treating you for... I would know, because I was under the fibro category for many years and had to live with those contradictions. They are doing the moral and ethical thing to take the patient seriously and to still help them to seek care and hopefully feel better.


Also who here is surprised that India would be upset that she doesn't have access to women's shelters? Victimhood is like a career achievement for her, so of course she would need to up the ante... it's like she is seeking the fame of being the poster child of as many causes by the end of 2018 as she can possibly obtain.

[Saph]

I dont really see the problem either

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Saph

I dont really see the problem either

Its about 'self identified women'. Not transsexual people. Self identified means simply, saying you are a woman while being a man. I am not sure India was the best person to be talking to about this, given she is actually transsexual and post-op. Muddies the waters a bit.

[Greg!]

Post op I think it should be allowed as it's very likely a trans woman in a men's prison would be assaulted