[Josiah.]

Good thinking Shaun.

[Black Dagger]

Originally Posted by MB.

Truthfully though, Lucas, you were my 12 points, and I still piss myself when I think of you singing "doo doo doo doo" while holding a picture of Mary Berry over your face (what can I say, I'm a man of simple pleasures)

I love you!

[Wizard.]

Great suggestions Shaun

[Nicky91]

another last place for me

[Nicky91]

here were my votes

12) Portugal
10) Latvia
8) Norway
7) Israel
6) Vatican City
5) Lebanon
4) Denmark
3) United Kingdom
2) Croatia
1) Iceland

[AnnieK]

Congrats all who took part, all the songs were amazing. Forget the voting controversy, the effort involved from all was brilliant. Congrats Kirk on winning, well deserved

[Nicky91]

i will take part in next edition, which is xmasvision

[chuff me dizzy]

Well done Kirk and Livia, both very deserved

[LeatherTrumpet]

Originally Posted by Josiah.

1st:
Greece - 1,141 pts. (228 - Judges, 40 - Juries, 873 - Public)
2nd:
Israel - 1,113 pts. (194 - Judges, 29 - Juries, 890 - Public)
3rd:
United Kingdom - 560 pts. (212 - Judges, 9 - Juries , 339 - Public)
4th:
Lebanon - 506 pts. (102 - Judges, 14 - Juries, 390 - Public)
5th:
Australia - 438 pts. (228 - Judges, 12 - Juries, 198 - Public)
6th:
Estonia - 399 pts. (276 - Judges, 43 - Juries, 80 - Public)
7th:
Bosnia & Herzegovina - 363 pts. (264 - Judges, 39 - Juries, 60 - Public)
8th:
Iceland - 323 pts. (164 - Judges, 38 - Juries, 121 - Public)
9th:
Norway - 318 pts. (214 - Judges, 52 - Juries, 52 - Public)
10th:
Denmark - 318 pts. (250 - Judges, 28 - Juries, 40 - Public)
11th:
Vatican City - 270 pts. (64 - Judges, 15 - Juries, 191 - Public)
12th:
Portugal - 264 pts. (184 - Judges, 48 - Juries, 32 - Public)
13th:
Latvia - 248 pts. (146 - Judges, 33 - Juries, 69 - Public)
14th:
Italy - 247 pts. (178 - Judges, 6 - Juries, 63 - Public)
15th:
France - 233 pts. (154 - Judges, 13 - Juries, 63 - Public)
16th:
Croatia - 176 pts. (110 - Judges, 31 - Juries, 35 - Public)
17th:
Czech Republic - 108 pts. (70 - Judges, 1 - Juries, 37 - Public)

BTW, I am completely disregarding the Juries in December, because the low scoring and the riggery for Livia is too off.

Well Done Livia and Victor Kirk for your famous win and silver position. Looks like I voted for the right songs




and bit surprised at the unsporting fumes in this "game"

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Shaun

To be fair - as I have stipulated with Josiah - it's also entirely possible that someone else tampered with the votes to try and frame those who've benefitted from them. There shouldn't be any public accusations. I have a pretty clear idea of who I think is behind it but even discounting the obvious 300+ votes nonsense, there will have been people who thought "hmm, I'll vote 3 or 4 times" and that's just as bad and unfair, really. I don't see any need for a poll in an event like this when so much effort's been put into the entries themselves, it seems only fair that a little bit of effort should go into the voting too.

I've mentioned to Josiah that I'll "reclaim the game" but only in a few aspects.

- I'll post the thread and announce it when we've agreed on a start date.
- I'll collect all of the votes (via PM, and also count the judges' scores)
- I'll collect the entries as they are submitted by participating members

Otherwise, Josiah will do pretty much exactly what he did the night before last, because he did an excellent job with it and was a good host. So Josiah will still:

- Host the event with his (now customary) videos and opening titles, etc.
- Design whatever he likes for the event (such as those song-information banners for the voting)
- Reveal the results (the only difference here is that I will know them this time )
- Have a Wikia for the event as he has done for...gosh...I don't know actually. 5 years maybe?

The only thing that I think needs to be decided on is the final scoring system. I think having the judges' scores counting for double (ie. instead of 17pts, 16pts, 15pts, it was 34pts, 32pts, 30pts... this time around) may be a little bit unfairly balanced in favour of the judges, and leave us open to scrutiny and accusations of bias/nepotism. I will have a tinker with the judges as usual because it's healthy to keep the panel a little bit different each time, but I think I'm pretty fair in hiring them because I go for people who either:

- Know the game well and know what makes a "good song"
- Have a moderator status and therefore a little bit of authority / are inherently impartial
- Represent a section of the forum that is otherwise not too closely affiliated with the majority of the song subjects (ie. as always, most songs are about chat-and-games in-jokes, or mods/bans, and can read as gobbledegook to non-posters of that area)
- Are just generally pretty fair and mature and can look at the game objectively as a celebration of creativity, effort and humour/musical prowess.

So I think keeping the "Jury vote" the same is fine (ie. all participants can vote with 12pts, 10pts, 8pts, 7pts, 6pts, 5pts, 4pts, 3pts, 2pts and 1pt for their ten favourite songs in order, but not for themselves) and any non-participating member can vote in the exact same format. Judges of course have to rank themselves somewhere otherwise are at a disadvantage - and I don't think any judge put themselves higher than 4th this time around? I put myself 8th. Midway is usually fine although I'm happy with this shady area being replaced by a "each judge gets [10pts]* and then takes themselves out of the ranking" scenario.
*[10pts] here would be a middle-mark for a Eurovision that has 20 songs submitted, so bang in the middle.

With 10 judges I think having singular points helps both keep the results closer/less predictable, and prevents us from having too strong of an influence on the final results. For example, if you removed the judges and left it to the players this time around it would've resulted in:

1) Shaun
2) LukeB
3) MB

Add in the judges and LukeB and I disappear from the top 3 entirely

I think, finally, and sorry I know this is going to be a long post but I want to address everything, making sure the voting remains open for a lot longer is also imperative and saves us from the stress of trying to get 20+ votes in under 24 hours. So I am toying with the idea of having Josiah host the live show on, say, a Friday, and then having the results show on the following Monday. That gives everyone the whole weekend to catch up, read everything thoroughly and not just skim-read quickly to get a vote in, and also gives us more time to prepare the results Like I say, this is just an idea and all of these things I've suggested are just ideas I'm happy to discuss with regular players in here.

Is it though, if it was an open vote where you could vote multiple times, just like it is at Eurovision and every other reality show then what is this issue, there wasn't a one vote per person rule so i don't really see the issue.

It's just a fun game at the end of the day, the right song won as everyone agrees and it will be memorable and as you say give people inspiration for the next one

[LeatherTrumpet]

best song won so no issues

end of

[jet]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

best song won so no issues

end of

Congrats Kirk, your song deserved the No. 1 spot, it was brilliant. End of, indeed.

[Nicky91]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

best song won so no issues

end of

Luke had a good song for Portugal, Lucas did a amazing last minute song writing job for Latvia

and Dezzy has written a iconic song now as well



so the best song didn't win

[Black Dagger]

It wasn't amazing or written lol.

I said anal for 30 seconds. I'm not going to pretend my entry was a masterpiece. I wanted to do more with it but the deadline caught me off guard.

[Nicky91]

Originally Posted by Black Dagger

It wasn't amazing or written lol.

I said anal for 30 seconds. I'm not going to pretend my entry was a masterpiece. I wanted to do more with it but the deadline caught me off guard.

like Rona Nishliu singing the same lyric over and over in real eurovision for 3 minutes

[LeatherTrumpet]

Originally Posted by Nicky91

Luke had a good song for Portugal, Lucas did a amazing last minute song writing job for Latvia

and Dezzy has written a iconic song now as well



so the best song didn't win

Kirk won, it was voted best song - FACT

dont be a sore loser as your song as the worst

[Nicky91]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

Kirk won, it was voted best song - FACT

dont be a sore loser as your song as the worst

i don't care if my song is the worst or not, i just do some experimenting now


maybe i need to go for something more dance boppy rather than a ballad fused with a rap


i liked Kirk's song, but others had impressed me more for my points and votes

just a matter of taste for me, i didn't want my friendship with Kirk to be a reason for my points

[LeatherTrumpet]

Originally Posted by Nicky91

i don't care if my song is the worst or not, i just do some experimenting now


maybe i need to go for something more dance boppy rather than a ballad fused with a rap


i liked Kirk's song, but others had impressed me more for my points and votes

just a matter of taste for me, i didn't want my friendship with Kirk to be a reason for my points

Well we wont really believe who you voted for as you lied when pressed the last time

[Nicky91]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

Well we wont really believe who you voted for as you lied when pressed the last time

so you didn't like my homage to Adele, in my song

[MB.]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

and bit surprised at the unsporting fumes in this "game"

None of us are begrudging Kirk, Livia or anyone else's success, especially since everyone (well, maybe not Nicky) seems to agree with you that Kirk is the rightful winner regardless of how the voting went, and our only wish is that the game hadn't been sabotaged in order to achieve those results. So if you're trying to cause drama then kindly jog on!

[Nicky91]

Originally Posted by MB.

None of us are begrudging Kirk, Livia or anyone else's success, especially since everyone (well, maybe not Nicky) seems to agree with you that Kirk is the rightful winner regardless of how the voting went, and our only wish is that the game hadn't been sabotaged in order to achieve those results. So if you're trying to cause drama then kindly jog on!

even if i get last place couple more times i don't care, i just show you guys my take on how i write songs


so to the people who had given me points and had voted for me, i say thank you i appreciate it, a shame it wasn't enough


next time i definitely am gonna team up with few of my eurovision friends on discord writing my song for xmasvision

[MB.]

Originally Posted by Nicky91

even if i get last place couple more times i don't care, i just show you guys my take on how i write songs


so to the people who had given me points and had voted for me, i say thank you i appreciate it, a shame it wasn't enough


next time i definitely am gonna team up with few of my eurovision friends on discord writing my song for xmasvision

I enjoyed your entry as always, Nicky! I couldn't understand a good half of it, but I enjoyed it

[Nicky91]

Originally Posted by MB.

I enjoyed your entry as always, Nicky! I couldn't understand a good half of it, but I enjoyed it

czech and macedonian lyrics were basically the hello lyrics from the adele song


i took a risk, and with taking risks you can either flop or do extremely well, and i flopped but i don't care

at least i was standing out with my entry, only one besides Josiah to use a other language than english

[LeatherTrumpet]

Originally Posted by MB.

None of us are begrudging Kirk, Livia or anyone else's success, especially since everyone (well, maybe not Nicky) seems to agree with you that Kirk is the rightful winner regardless of how the voting went, and our only wish is that the game hadn't been sabotaged in order to achieve those results. So if you're trying to cause drama then kindly jog on!

No, sure..

but lets just change the whole voting system next time and the person running so that the right person wins..

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by Black Dagger

It wasn't amazing or written lol.

I said anal for 30 seconds. I'm not going to pretend my entry was a masterpiece. I wanted to do more with it but the deadline caught me off guard.

Lucas ,don't underestimate yourself,yours would have been at least top 3 for me.