[Sticks]

Originally Posted by MTVN

Apparently he does this quite a lot when he thinks a bill is being rushed through too hurriedly while there are only a few MPs in the House

It will pass next time

No it won't - it will be talked out of time, and rightly so.

Besides it is not needed as there are already adequate laws to deal with this. We do not need to waste parliamentary time to create a new law that can send people to prison when we have quite enough laws on the statute book thank you very much!!!

Such people as this MP are a welcome check and balance system when people all start jumping on bandwagons needlessly. Anyone remember the fiasco of the Dangerous Dogs Act?

There is a 100% solution to preventing so called upskirting, wear trousers, it's not rocket science.

Oh and before you ask, I have absolutely no interest in looking up any skirt whatsoever

[kirklancaster]

"Object"

Sir Christopher Chope, are you a dope?
Because your conduct is very suspect
To scupper this bill of your own free will
By standing and shouting ' Object!"
We don't all agree when pissed off by P.C.
That this is the right way to fight back
And now you deserve, the title 'Lord Perv'
'Cos I think you did it Just For The CRACK.

(And the bum, and anything else you hope to see looking up skirts you sad bastard)

[Shaun]

Originally Posted by Sticks

There is a 100% solution to preventing so called upskirting, wear trousers, it's not rocket science.

Yeah you can leave again...

[Jake.]

Originally Posted by Shaun

Yeah you can leave again...

[Underscore]

Originally Posted by Shaun

Yeah you can leave again...

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Sticks

There is a 100% solution to preventing so called upskirting, wear trousers, it's not rocket science.

Yeah! Let's gloss over the fact that the man's at fault and blame the woman for wearing a skirt! That's a good idea!

**** no. That's victim blaming and it's an attitude that's allowed rape and sexual assault to thrive. The solution to upskirting is to not take pictures of someone's underwear without their consent. Why is it so hard for people to hold men accountable for their own godamn actions?

As for your other 'points' regarding laws. The system is utterly ****ed when it comes to sexual crimes and your post is a good example of why that's the case. Why hold a rapist accountable for their own actions when you can blame it on the victim for what she's wearing? It's never the men's fault for taking these pictures, it's the women's for daring to not wear trousers!

Sexual assault and harassment is a problem, if we need to introduce more laws (and hopefully, a complete overhaul when it comes to trials involving sexual assault) to prevent it from happening then so be it.

I can't. I just can't with this post.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Sticks

There is a 100% solution to preventing so called upskirting, wear trousers, it's not rocket science.

I suppose if you walk in the street with money in your pocket, you're asking to be mugged too?

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Sticks

we have quite enough laws on the statute book thank you very much!!!

Oh well, we have too many laws. Oh dear, how inconvenient for the perverts. Let's cut them some slack. Poor things.

[Sticks]

It is not blaming a woman when you are mearly advising on how to take precautions on how to prevent something happening. Am I blaming a house holder on what to do to prevent burglars from breaking in to their house? Oh these poor house holders, they should not have to lock their doors and windows, we should be getting people not to break in

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Sticks

It is not blaming a woman when you are mearly advising on how to take precautions on how to prevent something happening. Am I blaming a house holder on what to do to prevent burglars from breaking in to their house? Oh these poor house holders, they should not have to lock their doors and windows, we should be getting people not to break in

You think it's unreasonable to ask people not to stick a camera up someone's skirt to take pictures of their underwear/genitalia?

Why should they have to wear trousers?

I suppose they should wear a zip up hoodie to, to prevent any man from sticking their hands down their tops?

[MTVN]

The Cyber Devils Advocate is out of retirement

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Sticks

There is a 100% solution to preventing so called upskirting, wear trousers, it's not rocket science.

This logic is bizarre. It's akin to saying "There's a 100% solution to rape... chastity belts!"

[Ashley.]

Feminism is outdated... We no longer live in a male-dominated society... Yeah, right.

Originally Posted by Sticks

It is not blaming a woman when you are mearly advising on how to take precautions on how to prevent something happening. Am I blaming a house holder on what to do to prevent burglars from breaking in to their house? Oh these poor house holders, they should not have to lock their doors and windows, we should be getting people not to break in

We shouldn't have to think twice about what we're wearing for the sake of men's pervertedness.

[montblanc]

Originally Posted by Sticks

There is a 100% solution to preventing so called upskirting, wear trousers, it's not rocket science.

[Maru]

It shouldn't be legal if the photo is taken and distributed without consent showing undergarments, etc. That should be fairly easy to write imo? We live in an increasingly high tech society...Someday it could be possible to match normal photos with our body parts if they can detect unique markers (probably with AI), so might want to get those laws updated while we're on it.

[Maru]

Originally Posted by Ashley.

Feminism is outdated... We no longer live in a male-dominated society... Yeah, right.



We shouldn't have to think twice about what we're wearing for the sake of men's pervertedness.

Tbf, there's no law that can ever exist that could protect us from some men's perverted-ness or alleviate the need to be vigilant. Women should be aware of their surroundings at all time. The latter attitude is what gets some people hurt... at best the laws and law enforcement can deter, but they can't prevent crime so we have to stay vigilant.

In school, they taught my husband to park in reverse so he could see anyone approaching. I got on him about parking my car that way in our driveway, because I can't see my driver side... means I will have to walk around the other side of the car at night where it is not lit and could be someone sitting next to the car waiting... someone tried to pull his rear door once to try to get into the back and he reacted quick enough to spook them and take off... but he is trained to be on the look out for these things and noticed him following.

Anyway, I don't know what I would do to prevent upskirting other than to wear opaque clothes... I don't wear sheer too often as it is super humid here. Unless I'm going to the beach, I generally wear opaque leggings with skirts/dresses. If I wear sheer/no leggings, it's to church or to a wedding... ironically enough. Not that it can't happen there either... I'm sure it quite possibly does, as a lot of women dress up to church on Sunday morning.

I guess don't go to the bathroom in a public place or watch our surroundings?

(Edit) I think keeping online on sites like Nextdoor (neighborhood social media network) helps too... they often report nearby criminal activity and if they find a camera for instance hidden in a bathroom or a skimmer on a gas station pump, they will share it on there. It's in the US, but not sure if they have Nextdoor in the UK or not.

[arista]

Next date for it to go again, in Parliament
has been reported as Friday 6th of July.

[bitontheslide]

There is a far bigger problem of course. People just shouldn't take pictures of anyone without proper authorisation. How many weirdos take photos of children .... nothing is done. How many people take photos of drunken colleagues and think its fun to share them for others amusement. While the upskirts thing could be seen as a greater invasion of privacy, all these instances are invasion of privacy.

After looking at things in more detail. It appears that many laws are sneaked through late on a Friday afternoon when the majority of MP's have disappeared off home for the weekend and there are very few participating in debate and voting. In this respect, the guy is absolutely right to bring attention to the issue. MP's are there to represent us, and should be in attendance when laws are being debated and voted on. That to me is the greater issue, and it is shameful that they don't do the job they were entrusted to do on behalf of the people they represent.

[Nicky91]

Originally Posted by Sticks

No it won't - it will be talked out of time, and rightly so.

Besides it is not needed as there are already adequate laws to deal with this. We do not need to waste parliamentary time to create a new law that can send people to prison when we have quite enough laws on the statute book thank you very much!!!

Such people as this MP are a welcome check and balance system when people all start jumping on bandwagons needlessly. Anyone remember the fiasco of the Dangerous Dogs Act?

There is a 100% solution to preventing so called upskirting, wear trousers, it's not rocket science.

Oh and before you ask, I have absolutely no interest in looking up any skirt whatsoever

[Sticks]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

There is a far bigger problem of course. People just shouldn't take pictures of anyone without proper authorisation. How many weirdos take photos of children .... nothing is done. How many people take photos of drunken colleagues and think its fun to share them for others amusement. While the upskirts thing could be seen as a greater invasion of privacy, all these instances are invasion of privacy.

That is not what the law says. A photographer is entitled to take pictures of anyone in a public place without need for permissions. (Rules about private property may differ). The problem with the suggestion here is what do you do when you are taking pictures of street scenes, like a crowded high street in London, or at a football match where sports reporters work. Some would have you requiring written permission from anyone in shot, of a street scene on a public road.

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

After looking at things in more detail. It appears that many laws are sneaked through late on a Friday afternoon when the majority of MP's have disappeared off home for the weekend and there are very few participating in debate and voting. In this respect, the guy is absolutely right to bring attention to the issue. MP's are there to represent us, and should be in attendance when laws are being debated and voted on. That to me is the greater issue, and it is shameful that they don't do the job they were entrusted to do on behalf of the people they represent.

Also there are some laws that should not be allowed to be passed, no matter what the hue and cry "that something must be done" (Remember the Dangerous Dogs Act?)

There are remedies already, Voyeurism and outraging public decency, so there is no reason whatsoever for a new law, especially when women have an answer, wear trousers, just like men do (So don't complain about it is too hot to wear them, as men wear trousers and don't whine on like that!!!)

[Sticks]

Originally Posted by Ashley.

We shouldn't have to think twice about what we're wearing for the sake of men's pervertedness.

I used to know a wife of an evangelist who would take issue with you on that.

She had absolutely no sympathy for women who complained about sexual harassment from men, because these women were wearing sexually provocative and enticing clothing. Her rebuff to these women was "If you are not selling, don't advertise"

This gets back to my analogy of the house holder, are you saying that people should be allowed to go out, leave their doors and windows unlocked, and not expect to be robbed by any passing thief. Of course householders don't do that, when we go out, we make sure windows and doors are locked, and those of us with them set burglar alarms. We take precautions because we live in a fallen world.

I thought feminism was about women taking more control of their lives, so they should take control of what they wear, taking into account that some men are uncouth and hedonistic. Surely this is the equivalent of locking a front door, again it is not rocket science.

Why do we need to waste valuable parliamentary time, when women have the ability to prevent this antisocial activity by adjusting what they wear? We need all the parliamentary time there is to sort out Brexit...

[Withano]

Originally Posted by Sticks

I used to know a wife of an evangelist who would take issue with you on that.

She had absolutely no sympathy for women who complained about sexual harassment from men, because these women were wearing sexually provocative and enticing clothing. Her rebuff to these women was "If you are not selling, don't advertise"

This gets back to my analogy of the house holder, are you saying that people should be allowed to go out, leave their doors and windows unlocked, and not expect to be robbed by any passing thief. Of course householders don't do that, when we go out, we make sure windows and doors are locked, and those of us with them set burglar alarms. We take precautions because we live in a fallen world.

I thought feminism was about women taking more control of their lives, so they should take control of what they wear, taking into account that some men are uncouth and hedonistic. Surely this is the equivalent of locking a front door, again it is not rocket science.

Why do we need to waste valuable parliamentary time, when women have the ability to prevent this antisocial activity by adjusting what they wear? We need all the parliamentary time there is to sort out Brexit...

Out of interest, would you be okay with someone taking a picture of your cock at a public urinal?

[jaxie]

Everyone has the right to go out in public without having their privacy and personal space invaded regardless of what they are wearing.

Even if they were naked no one has the right to touch or photo them intimately.

Any man taking a photo up a woman's skirt without permission is a pervert and deseves punishment and should go onto the sex offenders register.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Sticks

I used to know a wife of an evangelist who would take issue with you on that.

She had absolutely no sympathy for women who complained about sexual harassment from men, because these women were wearing sexually provocative and enticing clothing. Her rebuff to these women was "If you are not selling, don't advertise"

Really? The wife of an evangelist said that? No. Never. This can't be true etc.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Sticks

I used to know a wife of an evangelist who would take issue with you on that.

She had absolutely no sympathy for women who complained about sexual harassment from men, because these women were wearing sexually provocative and enticing clothing. Her rebuff to these women was "If you are not selling, don't advertise"

This gets back to my analogy of the house holder, are you saying that people should be allowed to go out, leave their doors and windows unlocked, and not expect to be robbed by any passing thief. Of course householders don't do that, when we go out, we make sure windows and doors are locked, and those of us with them set burglar alarms. We take precautions because we live in a fallen world.

I thought feminism was about women taking more control of their lives, so they should take control of what they wear, taking into account that some men are uncouth and hedonistic. Surely this is the equivalent of locking a front door, again it is not rocket science.

Why do we need to waste valuable parliamentary time, when women have the ability to prevent this antisocial activity by adjusting what they wear? We need all the parliamentary time there is to sort out Brexit...

Single man, are you?

Maybe we need some legislation that women should all cover themselves with burkas, rather than actually prosecuting the sick perverts who take upskirt pictures.