[Nicky91]

Originally Posted by Sticks

parmnion asked a question, forgetting that men also wear trousers, so the problem raised also applies to men. I provided an answer to her question. In summer, some men, notably postmen where short trousers.

I have also observed that some women also wear short trousers.

If we lived in an idealised utopian paradise where all men respected women and did not do such uncouth and despicable acts, then there would be no problems. Unfortunately we live in the real world, and some men are thoroughly reprobate and pariahs.

Given that is it not prudent to take precautions?

Here is a question for our female members here, do you go out at night after dark, as is your right to? Do you take precautions like keeping to well lit public areas, not going out alone, taking some defensive weapon like pepper spray or an assault alarm? How many of you have done some form of self defence class or training?

In the idealised utopian paradise, you should not need to, but we live in the real world so many do take such precautions and possibly others that I have missed off the list.

Some of the precautions I have listed are possibly some that might be given out by a crime prevention officer, giving advice, so what is the difference in giving advice on how to avoid being upskirted in the absence of any legislation?

we can stand up for ourselves, and we can wear whatever we want, i don't want anyone else telling me what to do

[Matthew.]

Originally Posted by Sticks

We are in the midst of the greatest constitutional change, Brexit, these private members bills take up valuable parliamentary time needed for the Brexit legislation. Brexit is due on 29 March 2019, so time is of the essence.

why should that mean that this law shouldn’t be passed though? Tbh this does sound like a pretty pathetic justification

[Livia]

I'd love the queen to have one of her people call him.

"Hello, may I speak to Mr Christopher Chope?"

"You mean, Sir Christopher Chope."

"No I don't."

[Sticks]

Originally Posted by Maru

If it was voted on, isn't the bill essentially already written? I don't how parliament differs from here, but seems like if it just passing hands, then would be fine to vote through.

Without a penalty, there is no deterrent, so eventually it will have to be made into law. That ties up the hands of law enforcement. I imagine there is money to be made for folk who get these pictures as well...

Under the UK system bills also have to be debated in the House of Lords where amendments may be put on, then it gets sent back to the House of Commons where a government might seek to overturn any of the Lord's amendments, plus there are committee stages of a bill which also takes time.

Actually this link here describes the process better than I can.

As you can see it takes up quite a bit of time before it becomes law with Royal Ascent. Britain is now in a situation of the biggest constitutional change ever as it seeks to separate from the European Union, and a number of EU laws need to be copied into UK law before we leave on 29 March 2019.

There just is not the parliamentary time with such a complicated bill as the EU withdrawal bill for smaller bills like the one that was blocked on Friday. There are some remedies available already, such as use of the public order offence or Actions likely to cause a breach of the Queen's peace, or outraging public decency or voyeurism, so is this really a good use of precious parliamentary time?

[Livia]

A good use of parliamentary time is to ensure that measures are in place to ensure the safety and privacy of its citizens. If Parliament had time to concentrate on Brexit only, then there's more wrong than anyone ever thought possible. Besides, the laws we already have are not sufficient to deal with upskirting. Otherwise intelligent people wouldn't be wasting their time trying to get a new law introduced.

[arista]

Originally Posted by Livia

A good use of parliamentary time is to ensure that measures are in place to ensure the safety and privacy of its citizens. If Parliament had time to concentrate on Brexit only, then there's more wrong than anyone ever thought possible. Besides, the laws we already have are not sufficient to deal with upskirting. Otherwise intelligent people wouldn't be wasting their time trying to get a new law introduced.

Correct Livia
it is never "Brexit Only"

Ref: Daily Politics BBC2HD Mon to Fri
and SkyNewsHD All Out Politics Mon to Fri

[Maru]

UK legislator who blocked 'upskirting' law says he favors it
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2018/06...test+-+Text%29

LONDON – The British legislator who singlehandedly blocked a proposal to make taking "upskirting" photos illegal says he favors the proposed law but stopped it because of the way it was introduced in Parliament.

Conservative Party lawmaker Christopher Chope ended his silence on the matter Sunday, telling the Bournemouth Daily Echo he stopped the bill because of his long opposition to bills proposed by backbench lawmakers rather than the government.

He objected when the bill was put forward in Parliament Friday, ending the debate and angering Prime Minister Theresa May and others who want upskirting to be made a criminal offense.

Upskirting involves taking a photo or video under someone's clothing without their consent. It has become common with the spread of smartphones.

Supporters plan to try again in July.

[Kizzy]

By his own admission he's seen many of his own bills introduced in this manner, so he's either a liar or a hypocrite.

[arista]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

By his own admission he's seen many of his own bills introduced in this manner, so he's either a liar or a hypocrite.

No Kizzy
he was not aware of the subject matter
he shouts Object,
at everything taking his Brexit time.

After a day or so he was made aware
and gave a interview to his local paper
now after all the news channels
showed him what upskirting is.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by arista

he was not aware of the subject matter
he shouts Object

While I believe this is probably the truth about what happened... it's not really all that much better is it .

"Oh I have no idea what this is about. OBJECT!!"

[Kazanne]

I hope when this law is implemented ,and it will be,that the pervy newspapers who take pics of women getting out of cars or bending over etc,also feel the force of the law, they rant and rage over pervs ,and there they are displaying unflattering pictures of women,as for this idiot of a person who blocked it,he wont last long.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

I hope when this law is implemented ,and it will be,that the pervy newspapers who take pics of women getting out of cars or bending over etc,also feel the force of the law, they rant and rage over pervs ,and there they are displaying unflattering pictures of women,as for this idiot of a person who blocked it,he wont last long.

That's the hypocrisy of the media for you, Daily Mail is particularly bad for it. You'll see an article slamming crimes like this while in the columns you'll see articles about various women in compromising positions.

[lime]

Originally Posted by Sticks

No it won't - it will be talked out of time, and rightly so.

Besides it is not needed as there are already adequate laws to deal with this. We do not need to waste parliamentary time to create a new law that can send people to prison when we have quite enough laws on the statute book thank you very much!!!

Such people as this MP are a welcome check and balance system when people all start jumping on bandwagons needlessly. Anyone remember the fiasco of the Dangerous Dogs Act?

There is a 100% solution to preventing so called upskirting, wear trousers, it's not rocket science.

Oh and before you ask, I have absolutely no interest in looking up any skirt whatsoever

Allthough my English is not great ...I read your post and tried again incase I missunderstood it ...but sadly no....Your idea of rocket science is for women not to wear skirts...???the world is gone mad now Stick's...I saw a woman driving a car last week....I/m still not the better of it

[Maru]

And the whole time I thought "OBJECT" meant we were having a conversation about objectifying women... maybe they misinterpreted what he really was trying to say.

[arista]

Originally Posted by Maru

And the whole time I thought "OBJECT" meant we were having a conversation about objectifying women... maybe they misinterpreted what he really was trying to say.

But he has now said Sorry
I posted it long before your link

[arista]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

I hope when this law is implemented ,and it will be,that the pervy newspapers who take pics of women getting out of cars or bending over etc,also feel the force of the law, they rant and rage over pervs ,and there they are displaying unflattering pictures of women,as for this idiot of a person who blocked it,he wont last long.

But they are Women Celebs
not the same deal Kaz
as the young public lady (at a music festival, Police told her they can not do much under the current law )
that got all this going
to be fair


The female corrie Star
who got angry on GMBHD itv
a few weeks ago
can afford a Security guard etc.

[arista]

Upskirting Urgent Question
is Live now in UK Parliament

The LibDem MP is happy.

Lucy Frazer MP
Justice Minister

[Maru]

Originally Posted by arista

But he has now said Sorry
I posted it long before your link

No arista, I'm talking about the title of the thread. I didn't realize they say "object" there when voting something down, so it took on a whole different meaning ... I think here we just use "Nay"

[arista]

Originally Posted by Maru

No arista, I'm talking about the title of the thread. I didn't realize they say "object" there when voting something down, so it took on a whole different meaning ... I think here we just use "Nay"

Yes I would have Edited the Title
made it Bigger.

[Sticks]

Originally Posted by lime

Allthough my English is not great ...I read your post and tried again incase I missunderstood it ...but sadly no....Your idea of rocket science is for women not to wear skirts...???the world is gone mad now Stick's...I saw a woman driving a car last week....I/m still not the better of it

This is an expression. There is a similar expression to "It's not rocket science" which is "It's not brain surgery"

Rocket science is seen as very difficult to do and only done by very very clever people as rocketry requires things like engineering, fuel issues, telemetry, ballistics, trajectories, avionics, electronics, aerodynamics, software engineering, space medicine.

Likewise Brain surgery is also seen as very a highly specialised branch of medicine.

When someone says something is not rocket science it means that it should not be hard to understand, grasp or carry out

What I said was that, in the absence of any legislation banning upskirting, and if some believe existing laws are not sufficient, the easiest way to thwart those deviant scum bags carrying out upskirting, is to wear trousers.

This is something, at least in Newcastle most women already do, of their own choice. The most popular form seemed to be jeans.

[parmnion]

Originally Posted by Maru

No arista, I'm talking about the title of the thread. I didn't realize they say "object" there when voting something down, so it took on a whole different meaning ... I think here we just use "Nay"

Parmnion educating the western world.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by arista

No Kizzy
he was not aware of the subject matter
he shouts Object,
at everything taking his Brexit time.

After a day or so he was made aware
and gave a interview to his local paper
now after all the news channels
showed him what upskirting is.

bollocks

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Sticks

This is an expression. There is a similar expression to "It's not rocket science" which is "It's not brain surgery"

Rocket science is seen as very difficult to do and only done by very very clever people as rocketry requires things like engineering, fuel issues, telemetry, ballistics, trajectories, avionics, electronics, aerodynamics, software engineering, space medicine.

Likewise Brain surgery is also seen as very a highly specialised branch of medicine.

When someone says something is not rocket science it means that it should not be hard to understand, grasp or carry out

What I said was that, in the absence of any legislation banning upskirting, and if some believe existing laws are not sufficient, the easiest way to thwart those deviant scum bags carrying out upskirting, is to wear trousers.

This is something, at least in Newcastle most women already do, of their own choice. The most popular form seemed to be jeans.

How about women just go the whole hog and wear a burka?... if men are so predatory they cant control their urges at the sight of a bare leg then that seems the only option...

[parmnion]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

How about women just go the whole hog and wear a burka?... if men are so predatory they cant control their urges at the sight of a bare leg then that seems the only option...

Its all in the eyes.

[Maru]

Originally Posted by parmnion

Parmnion educating the western world.