[Northern Monkey]

A campaigner has lost a High Court challenge calling on the government to provide gender-neutral passports.

Christie Elan-Cane wants passports to have an "X" category, which could be used by those who consider themselves neither fully male nor female.

The campaigner claimed the UK's passport process was "inherently discriminatory".

High Court judge Mr Justice Jeremy Baker refused to rule the government policy as unlawful.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-44575229


What d’you think?

I agree with the ruling.I think anyone can call themselves what they want but when it comes to official documentation we should only deal in facts.

[arista]

Yes the Law is the Law


Do not Feck with it.

[LeatherTrumpet]

what a waste of court time

[GoldHeart]

The idea of gender neutral passports is just ridiculous tbh .

Whether people like it or not you have to be identified as MALE or FEMALE especially when it comes to legal documents.

[Tom4784]

I'm all for rejecting gender roles and norms but gender neutral is not a gender, it's a choice and I think it's kind of insulting to trans people who struggle with their identity to have people swan in and demand their own gender because they wish to reject soceital views on gender. Do that all you want, I agree with it tbh but it's not a gender.

[Toy Soldier]

I don't think a third category is a good idea but, to be fair, I don't see any particular reason that passports need to be gender specific at all . Their photo ID technologies are very advanced these days, specifying gender on the passport is sort of an irrelevance these days. It has your name, D.O.B and photographic identification (and I believe other stuff on the microchipped ones) so why gender is needed as part of the info, I don't really know.

[Vicky.]

My passport says sex, not gender. Does anyone elses say gender?

I also think once all airports start getting those facial recognition things, sex will be removed from passports anyway as its a bit daft to have it on after that. But for now, there are only a select few airports that actually have them as far as I know. Newcastle one doesn't, Alicante one does (but has disastrous technology/or errors on it...it rejected my cousins 4 times...and then one of the guards waved him through without even checking his passport, muttering about how the machine had been going wrong all day!)

I also agree with dezzy, that **** like this is insulting to transsexual people. As is a lot of the 'transgender' debate tbh. Its largely self indulgent nonsense (todays 'transgender', not people with dysphoria), thats attached itself to a serious medical condition.

And yes, if the rest of my post was not clear enough, there is no need for a 'gender neutral' option on passports. So glad this was chucked out, and what a waste of the courts time.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

I'm all for rejecting gender roles and norms but gender neutral is not a gender, it's a choice and I think it's kind of insulting to trans people who struggle with their identity to have people swan in and demand their own gender because they wish to reject soceital views on gender. Do that all you want, I agree with it tbh but it's not a gender.

Yeah, it all seems kind of sexist really, gender is just a stereotyping of the two sexes imo

[Oliver_W]

No kind of longlasting, "official" ID should have any other sex/gender categories beyond M and F. Once they grow out of their little "nonbinary" phase, they'd still have their passport for up to ten years, which they'd probably find pretty embarrassing.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

No kind of longlasting, "official" ID should have any other sex/gender categories beyond M and F. Once they grow out of their little "nonbinary" phase, they'd still have their passport for up to ten years, which they'd probably find pretty embarrassing.

Well quite. Transsexual people can get their sex marker on their passport changed after getting a letter from a doctor confirming they have sex dysphoria. So its not going to be a phase for those people, as its a lifelong condition. It can be alleviated somewhat, but its always there. So a provision for them is a different thing.

Where 'non-binary', 'gender neutral', 'transgender' (in many cases, I know some transsexual people describe themselves as transgender....but most under the trans umbrella have no body dysphoria at all) and such is all about stereotypes or following the crowd.

[y.winter]

I'm not into the whole "non-binary" thing. By trying to un-label themselves they're just putting stricter definition to what male or female is, instead of reclaiming their right to be who they are under that label (which should be the true gender revolution).

[Greg!]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

I'm all for rejecting gender roles and norms but gender neutral is not a gender, it's a choice and I think it's kind of insulting to trans people who struggle with their identity to have people swan in and demand their own gender because they wish to reject soceital views on gender. Do that all you want, I agree with it tbh but it's not a gender.

.

[Jamie89]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I don't think a third category is a good idea but, to be fair, I don't see any particular reason that passports need to be gender specific at all . Their photo ID technologies are very advanced these days, specifying gender on the passport is sort of an irrelevance these days. It has your name, D.O.B and photographic identification (and I believe other stuff on the microchipped ones) so why gender is needed as part of the info, I don't really know.

This, just remove the marker completely having sex on passports is pointless imo, even without technological advances. And I think the campaigners would probably have more luck if they approached it from that angle, I think it's an easier argument to make than the argument for recognising non-binary identities in relation to sex (which like Vicky says is what the passport marker represents, rather than gender). I'm all for respecting peoples gender identities but I do struggle to understand how nonbinary can relate to sex. It's only really masculine and feminine that could be considered a 'scale'? I don't really see how male and female could be.