Notices

Serious Debates & News Debate and discussion about political, moral, philosophical, celebrity and news topics.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 31-08-2018, 04:55 PM #126
Redway's Avatar
Redway Redway is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 10,400


Redway Redway is offline
Senior Member
Redway's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 10,400


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Twosugars View Post
the usual, gardening, mild exercise if I can, keeping busy, plus my meds
but tbh, as soon as I stopped being suicidal they lost interest and tried to get me off their books asap
when I said I do all that as much as I can but I'm not progressing they said I'd plateaued and have to wait. I said I wasted 5 years, the answer: oh, in same cases in may take 15 and a shrug.
It's embarrassing to talk about details, but some days are better and others worse, but I'm not functioning whichever way you look at it. The worst is the constant fatigue. I get up and 30 min later I want to go back to bed.
Now I'm scared to go and ask to be referred back bc I know they simply don't have time and resources and will fob me off again.
There's ketamine treatment at nhs oxford where you pay for it, gonna do that in winter if things don't improve.
You don't owe kizzy any explanation pal. As long as you're working on feeling better in yourself you don't need to justify yourself.
__________________


Don’t let your regret be stronger than your gratitude. And don’t hang on to negativity. That’s all.
Redway is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 31-08-2018, 05:00 PM #127
Redway's Avatar
Redway Redway is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 10,400


Redway Redway is offline
Senior Member
Redway's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 10,400


Default

And kizzy - putting aside pure depression what do you think about people who need ECT for more deeply rooted illnesses like bipolar and the post-psychotic depression of schizophrenia? What happens when people in a manic episode hop onto a moving vehicle thinking they're invincible going by your advice telling the to jog?
__________________


Don’t let your regret be stronger than your gratitude. And don’t hang on to negativity. That’s all.
Redway is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 31-08-2018, 05:04 PM #128
Matthew.'s Avatar
Matthew. Matthew. is offline
it’s a mad, mad world
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 13,796

Favourites (more):
BBCanada 9: Tera
BBUSA22: Janelle


Matthew. Matthew. is offline
it’s a mad, mad world
Matthew.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 13,796

Favourites (more):
BBCanada 9: Tera
BBUSA22: Janelle


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Twosugars View Post
how do you feel about that? do you think it's accurate?
well i never feel depressed if that’s what you mean
__________________





Spoiler:








Matthew. is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 31-08-2018, 05:11 PM #129
Kizzy's Avatar
Kizzy Kizzy is offline
Likes cars that go boom
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 41,755


Kizzy Kizzy is offline
Likes cars that go boom
Kizzy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 41,755


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Twosugars View Post
I don't know how why they didn't specify. But the fact is, ECT is administered very conservatively and I mean very.
If nothing else (and there's plenty of medical reasons), it is a very expensive treatment requiring hospital stay etc. No doctor would dream of recommending it if there were alternatives.
There you go then you just answered your own question as to why you weren't offered it, there are lots of avenues out of it...and as glib as it sounded it can take longer than 5yrs to dig your way out. Now you've decided you want to live start living... find a purpose. Work, hobby, family, friends, lovers. Routine is your friend, have an achievable goal... Even if it only washing your clothes and taking then out of the washer before they start to smell.
Baby steps, natural highs ... go to the lakes, laugh at the sheep, work on your self esteem, make yourself look amazing then go out and smile at people just to watch them smile back.

Confront your issues, write them down, make amends with yourself, move on.
Don't waste any more time, your doctor, ECT, ketamin ... can't help they are things from outside going in, to heal you need it to radiate from within moving outwards.

This might make sense it might not, it helped me and is still helping me, if someone 5yrs ago had told me I could get (and keep) a job or buy a house I would have laughed in their face ( then gone home and cried myself to sleep)

From what I've seen of you on here you seem sensitive, socially aware and morally strong maybe the times we live in are taking their toll... I'm not sure how deep your personal issues pool is but even that's enough to tip some over the edge I guess?

I'm willing you well... I'm sending you all the strength I can muster in the hope it gives you a seizure... (kidding)
__________________
Kizzy is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 31-08-2018, 05:13 PM #130
Kizzy's Avatar
Kizzy Kizzy is offline
Likes cars that go boom
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 41,755


Kizzy Kizzy is offline
Likes cars that go boom
Kizzy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 41,755


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Redway View Post
You don't owe kizzy any explanation pal. As long as you're working on feeling better in yourself you don't need to justify yourself.
That's good advice red, just internalise everything until your doctor has no option but to refer you for brain zapping.
__________________
Kizzy is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 31-08-2018, 05:24 PM #131
Kizzy's Avatar
Kizzy Kizzy is offline
Likes cars that go boom
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 41,755


Kizzy Kizzy is offline
Likes cars that go boom
Kizzy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 41,755


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Redway View Post
And kizzy - putting aside pure depression what do you think about people who need ECT for more deeply rooted illnesses like bipolar and the post-psychotic depression of schizophrenia? What happens when people in a manic episode hop onto a moving vehicle thinking they're invincible going by your advice telling the to jog?
I've already touched on that in previous posts in any catatonic, manic state yes otherwise no.

And to be fair even then ECT is not a cure all is it? There is the need to maintain a level of treatment that could be unsustainable, where is the funding for all this treatment coming from?

The cynic in me might suggest that the only reason for advocating such treatments is if those pushing them had a vested interest....We would see 'virgin' ECT centers popping up in every town then all with their hand out for NHS funded clients.
__________________
Kizzy is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 31-08-2018, 05:26 PM #132
Twosugars Twosugars is offline
Stiff Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: London
Posts: 9,384
Twosugars Twosugars is offline
Stiff Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: London
Posts: 9,384
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew. View Post
well i never feel depressed if that’s what you mean
that's good!
the questions are general so some things can be explained by certain personality traits and current mood without involving depression
maybe you just cba today
Twosugars is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 31-08-2018, 05:31 PM #133
Twosugars Twosugars is offline
Stiff Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: London
Posts: 9,384
Twosugars Twosugars is offline
Stiff Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: London
Posts: 9,384
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kizzy View Post
I've already touched on that in previous posts in any catatonic, manic state yes otherwise no.

And to be fair even then ECT is not a cure all is it? There is the need to maintain a level of treatment that could be unsustainable, where is the funding for all this treatment coming from?

The cynic in me might suggest that the only reason for advocating such treatments is if those pushing them had a vested interest....We would see 'virgin' ECT centers popping up in every town then all with their hand out for NHS funded clients.
Kizzy, please don't make it political. This thread is apolitical.
Redway posted an intro about ECT as one of possible treatments in severe cases. We'll be discussing other treatments too and not only for depresssion.
Let's keep it educational not confrontational.
Twosugars is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 31-08-2018, 05:38 PM #134
Kizzy's Avatar
Kizzy Kizzy is offline
Likes cars that go boom
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 41,755


Kizzy Kizzy is offline
Likes cars that go boom
Kizzy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 41,755


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Twosugars View Post
Kizzy, please don't make it political. This thread is apolitical.
Redway posted an intro about ECT as one of possible treatments in severe cases. We'll be discussing other treatments too and not only for depresssion.
Let's keep it educational not confrontational.
I did say that was me being cynical...
This is an extreme treatment for extreme cases, the last thing I want to do is normalise it believe me.
__________________
Kizzy is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 31-08-2018, 05:42 PM #135
Redway's Avatar
Redway Redway is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 10,400


Redway Redway is offline
Senior Member
Redway's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 10,400


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kizzy View Post
That's good advice red, just internalise everything until your doctor has no option but to refer you for brain zapping.
That's not what I said though is it. I said he doesn't owe you an explanation. Not his doctor, not family, just people like you.
__________________


Don’t let your regret be stronger than your gratitude. And don’t hang on to negativity. That’s all.
Redway is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 31-08-2018, 05:44 PM #136
Redway's Avatar
Redway Redway is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 10,400


Redway Redway is offline
Senior Member
Redway's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 10,400


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kizzy View Post
I've already touched on that in previous posts in any catatonic, manic state yes otherwise no.

And to be fair even then ECT is not a cure all is it? There is the need to maintain a level of treatment that could be unsustainable, where is the funding for all this treatment coming from?

The cynic in me might suggest that the only reason for advocating such treatments is if those pushing them had a vested interest....We would see 'virgin' ECT centers popping up in every town then all with their hand out for NHS funded clients.
If you bothered to read my posts you would've seen that we've already established that ECT isn't a long-term cure. But then you couldn't be arsed replying any of that post anyway so I'm not surprised.
__________________


Don’t let your regret be stronger than your gratitude. And don’t hang on to negativity. That’s all.
Redway is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 31-08-2018, 05:58 PM #137
Kizzy's Avatar
Kizzy Kizzy is offline
Likes cars that go boom
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 41,755


Kizzy Kizzy is offline
Likes cars that go boom
Kizzy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 41,755


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Redway View Post
That's not what I said though is it. I said he doesn't owe you an explanation. Not his doctor, not family, just people like you.
That's good because I didn't ASK for an explanation... this is just you being overly aggressive and confrontational for no good reason.

'People like me?' is that me as a depressed person, me as an ex addict or just me who has disagreed with your stance on an internet forum?
__________________
Kizzy is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 31-08-2018, 06:08 PM #138
Kizzy's Avatar
Kizzy Kizzy is offline
Likes cars that go boom
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 41,755


Kizzy Kizzy is offline
Likes cars that go boom
Kizzy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 41,755


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Redway View Post
If you bothered to read my posts you would've seen that we've already established that ECT isn't a long-term cure. But then you couldn't be arsed replying any of that post anyway so I'm not surprised.
Then what are we meant to be debating here?... I have already agreed that it's for very extreme mental health conditions and it has to be maintained indefinitely .... I am beginning to think you are just causing an argument for arguments sake now.

Best I step away from this portion of the discussion for a bit as I appear to be triggering some reaction from you.
__________________
Kizzy is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 31-08-2018, 06:20 PM #139
Twosugars Twosugars is offline
Stiff Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: London
Posts: 9,384
Twosugars Twosugars is offline
Stiff Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: London
Posts: 9,384
Default

It's more of a convo around mental health issues with accent on information, not a heated debate thread.
Twosugars is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 31-08-2018, 07:01 PM #140
Redway's Avatar
Redway Redway is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 10,400


Redway Redway is offline
Senior Member
Redway's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 10,400


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kizzy View Post
That's good because I didn't ASK for an explanation... this is just you being overly aggressive and confrontational for no good reason.

'People like me?' is that me as a depressed person, me as an ex addict or just me who has disagreed with your stance on an internet forum?
I'm sorry to hear about your own personal issues but you can't made comments like your opening post and expect not to be called out on it. If you can't handle it then don't act hysterical about alternative treatments in the first place.
__________________


Don’t let your regret be stronger than your gratitude. And don’t hang on to negativity. That’s all.
Redway is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 31-08-2018, 07:02 PM #141
Redway's Avatar
Redway Redway is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 10,400


Redway Redway is offline
Senior Member
Redway's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 10,400


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kizzy View Post
Then what are we meant to be debating here?... I have already agreed that it's for very extreme mental health conditions and it has to be maintained indefinitely .... I am beginning to think you are just causing an argument for arguments sake now.

Best I step away from this portion of the discussion for a bit as I appear to be triggering some reaction from you.
It's still funny how you haven't bothered replying to any of that post.
__________________


Don’t let your regret be stronger than your gratitude. And don’t hang on to negativity. That’s all.
Redway is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 31-08-2018, 07:27 PM #142
Kizzy's Avatar
Kizzy Kizzy is offline
Likes cars that go boom
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 41,755


Kizzy Kizzy is offline
Likes cars that go boom
Kizzy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 41,755


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Redway View Post
I'm sorry to hear about your own personal issues but you can't made comments like your opening post and expect not to be called out on it. If you can't handle it then don't act hysterical about alternative treatments in the first place.
Again I'm going to ask you to stop attacking me with these gaslighting comments, I'm not hysterical and no matter how many times you say it , it won't make it so.

The very rational input I have had in this thread explains how I feel ECT should always be the last line in treatment, you offered it up for discussion I appreciate that it does from my experience render people forgetful and unresponsive. Therefore however much you disliked my comment it did not come, as you so arrogantly predicted,from a place of ignorance.
__________________
Kizzy is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 31-08-2018, 07:41 PM #143
Redway's Avatar
Redway Redway is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 10,400


Redway Redway is offline
Senior Member
Redway's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 10,400


Default

Allow me but your experience doesn't show one bit when you make comments like below. I don't care if you went back on it because you were called on it but you made it sound like ECT has no purpose at all. All your earlier posts were laced with bare hyperbole and blatantly not in favour of ECT. There's no other rational inference people can draw from posts like that than you setting out to spread more inaccuracies about an already stigmatised practice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kizzy View Post
Wait, what? In which way is turning people into vegetables defensible?
__________________


Don’t let your regret be stronger than your gratitude. And don’t hang on to negativity. That’s all.

Last edited by Redway; 31-08-2018 at 07:41 PM.
Redway is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 31-08-2018, 08:29 PM #144
Toy Soldier Toy Soldier is offline
-
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 30,350


Toy Soldier Toy Soldier is offline
-
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 30,350


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kizzy View Post
'People like me?' is that me as a depressed person, me as an ex addict or just me who has disagreed with your stance on an internet forum?
From my perspective; it's the "you" who doesn't seem to have the ability to enter a thread without immediately turning it into a "battle". Ever. Ever, Kizzy. Give it some thought.
Toy Soldier is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 31-08-2018, 09:28 PM #145
Kizzy's Avatar
Kizzy Kizzy is offline
Likes cars that go boom
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 41,755


Kizzy Kizzy is offline
Likes cars that go boom
Kizzy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 41,755


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Redway View Post
Allow me but your experience doesn't show one bit when you make comments like below. I don't care if you went back on it because you were called on it but you made it sound like ECT has no purpose at all. All your earlier posts were laced with bare hyperbole and blatantly not in favour of ECT. There's no other rational inference people can draw from posts like that than you setting out to spread more inaccuracies about an already stigmatised practice.
And your experience... I have one do you?
You neither knew nor cared what my experience was when you began your 'analysis' of my competence to even comment.

So where is your experience from which you can confidently allay the fears of anyone in relation to the practice, how pronounced is the 'forgetfulness'... when would anyone receiving treatment begin to function in a state other than confused before the next session?

Where are your accuracies?...
__________________
Kizzy is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 31-08-2018, 09:38 PM #146
Kizzy's Avatar
Kizzy Kizzy is offline
Likes cars that go boom
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 41,755


Kizzy Kizzy is offline
Likes cars that go boom
Kizzy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 41,755


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toy Soldier View Post
From my perspective; it's the "you" who doesn't seem to have the ability to enter a thread without immediately turning it into a "battle". Ever. Ever, Kizzy. Give it some thought.
Thanks for the evaluation, I'll add it to the list of things you don't feel I'm qualified to comment on.

If there was one case study..one, that had been offered as a successful treatment that would be something but as per there is nothing. Nothing but the sound of redway saying not very much in relation to something for which he has no first hand experience.

If you don't like the way I debate, feel free to ignore.
__________________
Kizzy is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 31-08-2018, 09:43 PM #147
Redway's Avatar
Redway Redway is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 10,400


Redway Redway is offline
Senior Member
Redway's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 10,400


Default

"something for which he has no first-hand experience."

You'd know all about that though wouldn't you kizzy. I forgot we're bezzies.
__________________


Don’t let your regret be stronger than your gratitude. And don’t hang on to negativity. That’s all.
Redway is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 31-08-2018, 09:47 PM #148
Kizzy's Avatar
Kizzy Kizzy is offline
Likes cars that go boom
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 41,755


Kizzy Kizzy is offline
Likes cars that go boom
Kizzy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 41,755


Default

Then offer something up, if you rate ECT so highly and suggest those who think it's in the main an outdated practice show me something to change my mind!
__________________

Last edited by Kizzy; 31-08-2018 at 09:48 PM.
Kizzy is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 31-08-2018, 09:56 PM #149
Redway's Avatar
Redway Redway is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 10,400


Redway Redway is offline
Senior Member
Redway's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 10,400


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kizzy View Post
Thanks for the evaluation, I'll add it to the list of things you don't feel I'm qualified to comment on.

If there was one case study..one, that had been offered as a successful treatment that would be something but as per there is nothing. Nothing but the sound of redway saying not very much in relation to something for which he has no first hand experience.

If you don't like the way I debate, feel free to ignore.
That case study you yourself posted that showed a 90% success rate says enough to any person who's not being biased but just for you:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7896675
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8714319
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/risa-...l?guccounter=1
http://www.jneuropsychiatry.org/peer...nversion-d.pdf
http://www.scielo.br/scielo.php?pid=...rttext&tlng=en
http://casereports.bmj.com/content/2...17-222100.full
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20386114
http://www.bbc.com/future/story/2018...therapy-or-ect
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2860524/
https://www.yesandyes.org/2011/05/tr...onvulsive.html
https://www.mcleanhospital.org/news/...tories-success
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/b...ruth-about-ect

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ytC7GYaDvU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1JG9eQsjaZY

That enough for you or are you gonna ignore it like you did with the 90% success rate reported in the study you yourself posted or 98% of my earlier comments to you?

If people have an issue with your comments they're more than free to take it up with you and that's what people are doing. If you can't handle being called out on your own comments then don't post things you know will trigger people.
__________________


Don’t let your regret be stronger than your gratitude. And don’t hang on to negativity. That’s all.

Last edited by Redway; 31-08-2018 at 10:10 PM.
Redway is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 31-08-2018, 10:02 PM #150
Redway's Avatar
Redway Redway is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 10,400


Redway Redway is offline
Senior Member
Redway's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 10,400


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kizzy View Post
Then offer something up, if you rate ECT so highly and suggest those who think it's in the main an outdated practice show me something to change my mind!
Old-school ECT caused bone fractures. The more it's refined the more it's relevant today.

Like I said it's just funny how you keep ignoring all my earlier posts in response to you. You need to brush up on your rebuttal skills.

I've offered plenty. It's you who can't offer any real counter-arguments for reasons we both know. This is what you do on every thread allied to mental health.
__________________


Don’t let your regret be stronger than your gratitude. And don’t hang on to negativity. That’s all.
Redway is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Reply

Bookmark/share this topic

Tags
health or controversial, mental, treatments

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 01:50 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
 

About Us ThisisBigBrother.com

"Big Brother and UK Television Forum. Est. 2001"

 

© 2023
no new posts