[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

That's not what she said. She patronised young people as stupid.

Not really Livia was pointing out that some of your values change when you have more responsibility for instance owning your own home or having a child or being in a well paid job that you worked your arse off to get to

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Cherie

Not really Livia was pointing out that some of your values change when you have more responsibility for instance owning your own home or having a child or being in a well paid job that you worked your arse off to get to

Not really. She didn't say "Your values change the more life you experience" she said age automatically makes you more realistic and the young are idealistic.

A broad stroke that doesn't work in practice. As Dezzy said, one person's life experience is not universal.

Age does not always bring with it wisdom.

[Maru]

Originally Posted by Cherie

Not really Livia was pointing out that some of your values change when you have more responsibility for instance owning your own home or having a child or being in a well paid job that you worked your arse off to get to

The only part I would disagree with, and I would say this is more of a minor detail than anything. I don't think "values" necessarily shift. However... our perspectives surrounding different things like finances, laws, can and will change as we get older as we learn more about those things and think bigger picture. Our values may never shift, but our positions may shift when newer facts and life lessons are gained... if that makes more sense.

The younger we are, the smaller picture we tend to see the world, imo. Most of that is out of what is necessity. We have to make do with the tools we have and competing in a tough world, and being younger, we will not have as much useful information "at hand".

[Marsh.]

I don't even think it's about only having a "smaller picture", just that your personal circumstances will naturally shift over a longer lifespan (for better or worse) and therefore your stance on things like finances, laws etc might adapt and develop.

But, I agree, things like morals and values aren't necessarily things that will change with age.

[Maru]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

I don't even think it's about only having a "smaller picture", just that your personal circumstances will naturally shift over a longer lifespan (for better or worse) and therefore your stance on things like finances, laws etc might adapt and develop.

But, I agree, things like morals and values aren't necessarily things that will change with age.

Exactly. That'd been pointed out before and that's why I generally agreed when people when it was said that youngun's (in general) will tend to change views as they age. Growing minds also will change in perspective over time in order to adapt to circumstances and better cope. That's the result of overcoming foreign obstacles and (ideally) building character.

I think it's more accurate to say inexperienced people in general (which tends to include younger folk), that it's easier to hold onto an emotional/idealistic viewpoint. My husband does teaching/training and he sees this with people who enter the field. They have really unrealistic expectations with regards to things like crisis management and take-downs. Most people in the public make the same mistakes and tend to be more idealistic towards the solution, because they've never been put in the position to have to handle another human-being in a direct way.

This doesn't suggest though that their views are purely rooted in idealism. (I don't know that's what's being said here?) It's going to be a culmination of things, like environment, upbringing and life experience, etc, like you said. I would say as well those factors are more important in developing perspective than education. For example, when we go into college having already had some life experience, we take our education and then interpret it for more practical means. So I think it matters after that factor.

I know some people in my life who focused only on so-called "book smarts" growing up. They're paying the price later down the line in misery. I think that is part of what leads to some of the depression rates we see. Young people don't know why they're stuck later in life because the experience they have now, it doesn't "click" as well as when they were young. So it's very hard to turn the clock around after a point, our minds are not as "malleable". We become more set in our ways. Absorption is generally better when having experiences to tie things to. So that helps, they can catch up quicker with time, but it's the reason why some people go back really late in their lifes and pick up another major. It's part of why they feel so strongly about relating these "lessons" to the younger generations of now. Because they see how those things can be out of alignment. I can relate to this, actually, because I had a short college stint when I was living with my family. I went back I had moved out of the home and had been working for a while, paying my own way. I absorbed so much more during the second stint, and not only that, but also little nuances the professors were passing on during lecture really hit home with me. The kids were like "ungh"... but man, when they brought up rent... we were paying through the nose, actually, so that hit home fast ... whereas before I probably would've just been really bored and been like "Shaddup" internally.

But back to your point. To use "values" (like morals) in this context, like you said, is a bit misleading. Most of us establish at a very young age in the West that it is very wrong to murder in cold-blood. We don't suddenly become pro-murder later on simply from the aging process. Usually there would be some pre-conditions, like an anger mgmt issue, for that to be the case. There's other outliers I'm sure, but in general we don't go around killing for fun like GTA. It's not in our desire to be live in a society where we could be murdered either, so that's one pretty easy to uphold.

I really like how joeysteele put this in another thread with regards to politics. I think it applies here with regards to our attitudes with the young... Glad to see he is posting again...

It's always good sharing your and my differing perspectives on politics.
Never think you know less re politics.
Politics is life, it affects all our lives, it's just sad once elected many MPs sidestep that fact and choose to forget same.

[Maru]

I forget that Tim Allen is a comedian. Home Improvement.

Tim Allen: I Like Pissing People Off. And Nothing Does More Than a Very Funny Conservative.
https://www.indiewire.com/2018/11/ti...gs-1202021308/

How important is it to remind people that this show is about family, not politics?

KA: We always say that we’re a family comedy that has a conservative character at the center who has an interest in the politics of the day. But we are first and foremost a family show.

TA: I’ve always said that, certainly, relationships are politics. The political discourse between a male and female energy is politics. And children, that’s all political stuff. I like to mess around because I’ve been a standup fiery comic for 30 years. And I like pissing people off, and I said there’s nothing, especially in this area, that pisses people off more than a very funny conservative. A smart, funny conservative that takes shots and is certainly self-effacing. The left-wing point of view is so pervasive that they don’t even realize it’s a point of view. It is just a point of view. I think this character likes that, he likes to have another point of view. It makes him sharper and more interesting. But we don’t push it. I don’t think we’ve mentioned pro or con Trump once now.