[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Cherie

On a practical level how will the border be policed, NI style checkpoints, a Trump style wall If Scotland does achieve independence and then subsequently gets accepted back into the EU, free movement will pose a significant problem?

I think we all know that Brexit is going to end with some form of free trade and freedom of movement agreement so I can't see that being an issue.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Livia

I'm thinking of all the jobs we can claw back. All the government departments that have moved to Scotland... the Mint and the DVLA in Wales... BBC Cymru… BBC Scotland... They surely don't think they'll keep all that if they leave the union?

I imagine BBC Scotland would just become like BBC America? Commercialised?

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Livia

I'm thinking of all the jobs we can claw back. All the government departments that have moved to Scotland... the Mint and the DVLA in Wales... BBC Cymru… BBC Scotland... They surely don't think they'll keep all that if they leave the union?

Which UK wide government departments have been moved to Scotland?

And if the best argument still being trotted out for the UK being together is "The BBC!!"... I mean... Keep it? In fact forget Scottish Indy, take it anyway, the BBC is expensive trash and BBC Scotland is an actual joke even in comparison . Literally the only good thing the beeb still has going is Norton and it airs across the world so I'm sure it'll still air north of the border. So...

[Toy Soldier]

I mean there was also Doctor Who which everyone worried would be ruined by having a female Doctor, but the beeb proved us wrong by not ruining it with a female doctor and instead ruined it with ****ing abysmal writing and incompetent showrunning. £13.50 a month well spent!

[Marsh.]

Well at least we agree on something.

DS are blaming everything on "female Doctor" even though the last series would be just as crap with even the most popular male Doctor.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by arista

Yes TS can afford new high taxes









Sign Of The Times.

You're right Arista I would happily accept a 10% tax hike in exchange for being free from Westminster politics that are looking to utterly destroy the country over the coming decades. Utterly, utterly incompetent politics. To answer Oliver's question; THAT is why people would willingly pay more tax. For a functional government. Anyone who would argue that the UK has one hasn't been watching the news for the last 3 years.

And hey as Livia points out, we'll be saving £400m a year in TV license fees so wee Nic can have that straight off the bat and we won't even be out of pocket

[bitontheslide]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Which UK wide government departments have been moved to Scotland?

And if the best argument still being trotted out for the UK being together is "The BBC!!"... I mean... Keep it? In fact forget Scottish Indy, take it anyway, the BBC is expensive trash and BBC Scotland is an actual joke even in comparison . Literally the only good thing the beeb still has going is Norton and it airs across the world so I'm sure it'll still air north of the border. So...

isn't the inland revenue HQ in Scotland? They can keep that

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Well at least we agree on something.

DS are blaming everything on "female Doctor" even though the last series would be just as crap with even the most popular male Doctor.

They turned it into one of those CBBC shows that used to be on at 5pm before Neighbours, Marsh! And not top drawer stuff like golden age Byker Grove or The Queen's Nose... The really ropey ones.

[James]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

I am a strong admirer of Nicola Sturgeon.
I think she does a really good job as First Minister.

As for another independence vote, I think if she has that passed in Holyrood.
It's a disgrace the UK government could refuse it.

We have this English votes for English laws in Parliament now.
It would be shameful if the elected governing body of the Scottish devolved Parliament, was refused a new independence vote by English, Irish and Welsh MPs.

England does dictate to the rest of the UK.
With it's massively greater population as opposed to the 3 other, when it suits, so called 3 other equal Nations of the UK.

If I lived in Scotland, I'd be with Nicola Sturgeon and the SNP all the way on this.
Listening to the acidic comments I've witnessed from in the main the South of England against Scotland is frankly sickening.

Scotland has been taken for granted, and been the testing dumping ground of dubious policies by the 2 main Parties of the UK for way too long and it should be the case now that enough is enough now, as to that.
In my opinion.

I'm Scottish and I hope the UK government refuses another independence referendum. If the 2014 vote had gone the SNP's way they would have expected the result to have been treated as permanent.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Which UK wide government departments have been moved to Scotland?

And if the best argument still being trotted out for the UK being together is "The BBC!!"... I mean... Keep it? In fact forget Scottish Indy, take it anyway, the BBC is expensive trash and BBC Scotland is an actual joke even in comparison . Literally the only good thing the beeb still has going is Norton and it airs across the world so I'm sure it'll still air north of the border. So...

We get all the British channels in Ireland

[Matthew.]

James is Scottish?

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

isn't the inland revenue HQ in Scotland? They can keep that

Showing your age there Bots, the Inland Revenue merged with HMRC 10+ Years ago so its headquartered in London. I think there are HMRC offices in Glasgow but nothing that wouldn't need to be replaced with new taxation and social security offices anyway so plenty of transferable jobs for experienced staff.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by James

I'm Scottish and I hope the UK government refuses another independence referendum. If the 2014 vote had gone the SNP's way they would have expected the result to have been treated as permanent.

One of the main campaign platforms of the independence referendum was that "Remaining within the UK is the only way to guarantee continued EU membership for Scotland". Explicitly. Thus, exiting the EU is clear mandate for a second vote. If Scotland still chooses to stay in the UK (and in all honestly, if held today I think the vote would go more or less the same way) then that should be a clear message of the true national opinion but as things stand its totally botched.

I also have no idea where the idea that political votes are "one time only!" in a democracy comes from.

[James]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

One of the main campaign platforms of the independence referendum was that "Remaining within the UK is the only way to guarantee continued EU membership for Scotland". Explicitly. Thus, exiting the EU is clear mandate for a second vote. If Scotland still chooses to stay in the UK (and in all honestly, if held today I think the vote would go more or less the same way) then that should be a clear message of the true national opinion but as things stand its totally botched.

I also have no idea where the idea that political votes are "one time only!" in a democracy comes from.

Yeah, that was a platform because it was made clear that if Scotland voted in favour of independence we'd be out of the EU, and would have to negotiate again to join.

The SNP and pro-independence folk were happy to accept that then as a consequence of a yes vote. You see I don't think they (SNP) are actually very pro-EU. It's just a political convenience to be that at the moment.

[Cherie]

[QUOTE=James;10532670]Yeah, that was a platform because it was made clear that if Scotland voted in favour of independence we'd be out of the EU, and would have to negotiate again to join.

The SNP and pro-independence folk were happy to accept that then as a consequence of a yes vote. You see I don't think they (SNP) are actually very pro-EU. It's just a political convenience to be that at the moment.[/QUOTE]

100 per cent, and there is no guarantee they would even try and go back into the EU if Scotland were to vote leave

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I think we all know that Brexit is going to end with some form of free trade and freedom of movement agreement so I can't see that being an issue.

Leaving without a plan for all eventualities should be the last thing the Scottish should do especially given the **** show Brexit has become

if there is a free trade/movement agreement then we wont really have left the EU?

so how would you as a leaver tackle the issue with border with England should a hard Brexit take place?

[TomC]

Originally Posted by James

Yeah, that was a platform because it was made clear that if Scotland voted in favour of independence we'd be out of the EU, and would have to negotiate again to join.

The SNP and pro-independence folk were happy to accept that then as a consequence of a yes vote. You see I don't think they (SNP) are actually very pro-EU. It's just a political convenience to be that at the moment.

The SNP have been pro-EU for decades.

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

They turned it into one of those CBBC shows that used to be on at 5pm before Neighbours, Marsh! And not top drawer stuff like golden age Byker Grove or The Queen's Nose... The really ropey ones.

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I mean there was also Doctor Who which everyone worried would be ruined by having a female Doctor, but the beeb proved us wrong by not ruining it with a female doctor and instead ruined it with ****ing abysmal writing and incompetent showrunning. £13.50 a month well spent!

I agree; I'm not head over heels with JW but I'd rather she stayed with a better writer, than getting a decent Doctor and the same head writer.
Hollywood sperging: thing is, the writing rarely gets the blame when something sucks. Mars Needs Moms tanked, and the lesson that producers gleaned was "Mars in the title turned people off" instead of "it sounds ****ing stupid". As a result, John Carter of Mars was retitled, making it sound like boring biography movie than what it is...

[arista]

Originally Posted by James

I'm Scottish and I hope the UK government refuses another independence referendum. If the 2014 vote had gone the SNP's way they would have expected the result to have been treated as permanent.

Yes both main parties will

[James]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Which UK wide government departments have been moved to Scotland?

And if the best argument still being trotted out for the UK being together is "The BBC!!"... I mean... Keep it? In fact forget Scottish Indy, take it anyway, the BBC is expensive trash and BBC Scotland is an actual joke even in comparison . Literally the only good thing the beeb still has going is Norton and it airs across the world so I'm sure it'll still air north of the border. So...

For me the best thing about the BBC now is the news because they do try to be balanced, and look at both sides of an issue, even now when there is greater demand (with social media etc.) for news that reinforces whatever point-of-view people have.

I've personally kind of lost interest in a lot of television watching but a lot of people still like the BBC for the programmes, and the lack of advert interruptions.

Originally Posted by TomC

The SNP have been pro-EU for decades.

They prioritised independence over EU membership in the 2014 referendum though, so I'm not buying it.

[TomC]

Originally Posted by James

For me the best thing about the BBC now is the news because they do try to be balanced, and look at both sides of an issue, even now when there is greater demand (with social media etc.) for news that reinforces whatever point-of-view people have.

I've personally kind of lost interest in a lot of television watching but a lot of people still like the BBC for the programmes, and the lack of advert interruptions.



They prioritised independence over EU membership in the 2014 referendum though, so I'm not buying it.

I mean yeah bc that’s their main policy But they did support EU membership in 2014 and it’s been a party policy since the 80s.

[TomC]

I’m doing a uni course on Scottish nationalism and I’m highly suspicious the tutor is a Tory, and despite this the course has only made me more pro-SNP

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by TomC

I’m doing a uni course on Scottish nationalism and I’m highly suspicious the tutor is a Tory, and despite this the course has only made me more pro-SNP

what about his or her teachings make you think that?

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by James

I'm Scottish and I hope the UK government refuses another independence referendum. If the 2014 vote had gone the SNP's way they would have expected the result to have been treated as permanent.

...regardless of what the SNP would have expected had the vote gone differently, it still shouldn’t be treated as permanent...why would it, I mean ‘permanent’ is just foolish because permanent by nature doesn’t allow for changing political landscapes in countries...it just plods on regardlessly...’I’m permanent so I’m not budging and Lalala my fingers are in my ears...’....etc, etc...madness and foolish....

...the EU referendum and its result have massively changed the political landscape of this country so to be democratic in the true sense..?...that has to be addressed and considered also...

[arista]

Originally Posted by TomC

I’m doing a uni course on Scottish nationalism and I’m highly suspicious the tutor is a Tory, and despite this the course has only made me more pro-SNP

How Nice