[arista]

[Underscore]

Must say it has been so satisfying to see the Tories (and to a lesser extent Labour) suffer.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Withano

I know. Much less than the remain parties.

Indeed Withano, spot on.

Also this is a new party in name only.
With the same leader who took UKIP to top the vote in 2014 and 28 seats.

He's now taken this grouping to top the vote again, supplanting his old UKIP party with 5 more seats.

I cannot bear Farage, he is divisive, loud and bigoted in my view.
He is however a big player in politics particularly on brexit.

All he's done is repeat the level he reached 5 years ago leading UKIP.

32% of the vote is not a majority and his destruction of his other party for his current vehicle.
Has no real votes to hand to him now.

32% plus UKIPs 4%, is a long way from a majority of votes.
If the Brexit position is at 44%.
Including all the Conservative votes too.

No wonder he'd fear and put down any new vote on the issue.

[Withano]

Originally Posted by arista

Sure

Tommy Robinson is cancelled

Source: Sky News HD

[Twosugars]

Originally Posted by Withano

Tommy Robinson is cancelled

Source: Sky News HD

[Alf]

The Right seemed to do well in Europe.

Will you still be pro EU if the right takes over it?

[Nicky91]

Originally Posted by Alf

The Right seemed to do well in Europe.

Will you still be pro EU if the right takes over it?

yes i'll still be pro EU, and some of the far right countries have been warned few times already (yes looking at you Hungary, with evil dictator orban)

so i can see some of those getting kicked out if they go too far


and if Farage keeps trolling (like he does now with his brexit party) well EU can also kick out UK themselves, way before October 31st


most take it very much seriously in european parliament

[Alf]

Originally Posted by Nicky91

yes i'll still be pro EU, and some of the far right countries have been warned few times already (yes looking at you Hungary, with evil dictator orban)

so i can see some of those getting kicked out if they go too far


and if Farage keeps trolling (like he does now with his brexit party) well EU can also kick out UK themselves, way before October 31st


most take it very much seriously in european parliament

You make the current EU sound like fascists with all this censoring and de-platforming. I thought you was suppose to be bigging them up?

[LeatherTrumpet]

Did anyone ever find out what the failing Labour party's stance was on Brexit?

[Nicky91]

Originally Posted by Alf

You make the current EU sound like fascists with all this censoring and de-platforming. I thought you was suppose to be bigging them up?

oh, so we should allow ''far right'' countries to stay in our EU


Hungary's Orban has done evil things, he controls women wether or not they should have children or not (which is a big no no since everyone can decide for themselves if you want children or not)

closed borders to prevent terrorism no no either because you can still have terrorists in your country

[joeysteele]

Labour has not captured the unifying ground and now needs to really come down on one side.
I think it should take the anti brexit line.

Labour has been consistent, it has always wanted a customs union arrangement, as close to the single market as possible and never in support of no deal.
That's pretty clear to me.
The country and Parties are divided on the best way forward.
It was never going to be easy, Labour are not the government.
The Conservative party is.

The mess is theirs but to be fair the mess is understandable.
Theresa May who I dislike totally, got an agreement the best she could..
It's some of HER party who wrecked that and her premiership, no one else.

The fudge from Labour on another vote is what Labour needs to clear up.
It should support one unconditionally.
Stop trying to unite those who have no wish to be unified.
Corbyn needs to lead and not muddle things as he has on the referendum so far.

Things are not clear or easy on brexit, it's not wrong to try to find a way to fuse together two sides but it's failed for Labour.
Mainly because of Corbyn's mixed thinking on another vote.

The Conservative message is unclear too.

The SNP, Greens, Plaid Cynru and Lib Dems want to remain.
That's clear, that works.
In remaining nothing changes.

The Brexit supporters in Parliament need to be more honest.
Some want a soft brexit they call it.
Some an arrangement like May's agreement.
Some want out at any cost to everyone.

This was always going to be difficult.
Now 3 years on, a lot has been learned, and changed.

If we'd got moving out a year after the referendum, instead of the sideshow of Mrs May's general election.
Fine.

Two further years on from that.
I hated the thought of another vote, now 3 years on, I've changed my mind.

I'm sure I'm not the only one to do so either.

If brexit supporters really do believe, the Country still wants to leave.
Then why they fear another vote is beyond me.

If I believed I'd win a vote and win another too, I'd love to have and be eager to have such votes.

I think Corbyn's problem may be more about, he wants to leave for his agenda and so fears another vote going the other way.
That for me is the only confusion for me as to Labours stance.

For the life of me, I'll never understand why Corbyn helped support the ERG wing of the Conservatives and the DUP, by whipping his MPs against May's agreement with the EU.

I feel, if he fails now to support another public vote.
He should be replaced too.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

Did anyone ever find out what the failing Labour party's stance was on Brexit?

I think it's a secret.

[Vicky.]

Corbyn is 'hinting' at a second ref apparently

This hinting at this and hinting at that is part of the ****ing problem. Just bloody well chose, you cannot keep both sides happy.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Corbyn is 'hinting' at a second ref apparently

This hinting at this and hinting at that is part of the ****ing problem. Just bloody well chose, you cannot keep both sides happy.

He's going to lose me if he keeps hinting and not setting out to delliver.

He needs to say he'll fully support one or not.
If he won't, then he needs to go and fast.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

He's going to lose me if he keeps hinting and not setting out to delliver.

He needs to say he'll fully support one or not.
If he won't, then he needs to go and fast.

I will be surprised if he sets a firm view.

I would also be surprised if he left voluntarily. And unfortunately, I think anyone challenging him for leadership would be wiped out.

I really don't think he will go until Labour do way worse than usual at a GE, asnd even then he might cling on and make excuses.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

I will be surprised if he sets a firm view.

I would also be surprised if he left voluntarily. And unfortunately, I think anyone challenging him for leadership would be wiped out.

I really don't think he will go until Labour do way worse than usual at a GE, asnd even then he might cling on and make excuses.

I feel the same, Vicky.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

I will be surprised if he sets a firm view.

I would also be surprised if he left voluntarily. And unfortunately, I think anyone challenging him for leadership would be wiped out.

I really don't think he will go until Labour do way worse than usual at a GE, asnd even then he might cling on and make excuses.

As Livia once reminded me of Harold Wilson saying a week is a long time in politics.

Politics can change in a flash.
Hence the chaos for the 2 usual main Parties re Brexit.

Corbyn isn't invincible, milk left out the fridge can go off overnight.

The membership want a new vote.
If he faffs about on this new vote and really fudges it again.
That tide can easily turn.
I think the signs are it is beginning to anyway.
From what I'm hearing.

Then he has this investigation looming now.
He may well think gradually 5 years as leader, helping erode the overall majority the Conservatives had, and now he's 70.
This a best or good time to quit while seeming ahead.

No main party will win the next election outright.
I don't know Vicky, if he fails to back a new public vote.
That could be an issue too much to take for Labour MPs and at last Labour members too.
Of which I'm one if he fails to support one now.

I'm now, like yourself extremely both disappointed and dismayed by him.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

I really don't think he will go until Labour do way worse than usual at a GE

Well... he is also quite old .

[bitontheslide]

there was some serious criticism flying from labour mp's on sunday night toward "the party". I think labour are just a split as the tories on who wants what outcome, they have just hidden it better being the opposition and fudged it by not committing to either side. The moment labour choose a side is the moment they split apart too

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

there was some serious criticism flying from labour mp's on sunday night toward "the party". I think labour are just a split as the tories on who wants what outcome, they have just hidden it better being the opposition and fudged it by not committing to either side. The moment labour choose a side is the moment they split apart too

.I agree.

However too, if a side is not chosen it will likely happen too.
Lots of complaining now.

The 2017 election surprised many in Labour.
There's now no magic solution to the Brexit issue however.

Corbyn has to risk one side or the other.
Decision time looms.

I think a new leader is needed.