Home Menu

Site Navigation


Notices

Serious Debates & News Debate and discussion about political, moral, philosophical, celebrity and news topics.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 05-06-2019, 12:57 AM #1
reece(:'s Avatar
reece(: reece(: is offline
♡☯♡☮♡☯♡☮♡
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: England
Posts: 79,886

Favourites (more):
RPDR UK 2: Bimini Bon Boulash
BBUSA22: Janelle


reece(: reece(: is offline
♡☯♡☮♡☯♡☮♡
reece(:'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: England
Posts: 79,886

Favourites (more):
RPDR UK 2: Bimini Bon Boulash
BBUSA22: Janelle


Default Noa Pothoven: Raped girl, 17, dies by legal euthanasia in the Netherlands

Quote:


A teenager who said she was raped by two men died by legal euthanasia in the Netherlands, it's emerged.

Noa Pothoven made a "sad last post" to social media last week in which she announced she would "die within 10 days".

The 17-year-old detailed her struggles with sexual assault, depression, and anorexia in her award-winning biography "Winning or Learning".

She wrote in her book that she was first assaulted at the age of 11 and raped by two men when she was just 14-years-old, facts she hid from her parents because she was ashamed.

In her last post on Instagram, the young girl wrote that she had stopped eating and drinking and that her suffering was "unbearable."

She wrote that her decision was "final" and that she had not been alive for a while.

"I breathe but no longer live," she wrote.

A patient in the Netherlands may receive physician-assisted suicide if they are "enduring unbearable and unendurable suffering", according to the Dutch life ending clinic the 17-year-old consulted.

Originally the clinic said she was too young, according to Dutch news outlet de Gelderlander's 2018 profile of the teenager.

But legally minors are eligible under certain circumstances.

Pothoven wrote on Instagram last week that after many "conversations and reviews" it had been decided.

In 2017, 6,585 people died of euthanasia in the Netherlands, according to the Dutch Regional Euthanasia Review Committees' most recent report. Pathologists must legally report cases to the review committees.

Most of those people had untreatable cancer.

The Netherlands, Luxembourg and Belgium are the only countries in the European Union that allow voluntary euthanasia.

Physician-assisted suicide is allowed in Switzerland, where even foreigners are allowed to travel to receive it.

In Finland, there is no penalty for physician-assisted suicide, but in most European countries the topic is hotly debated and the practise is illegal except for under very specific circumstances.

Dutch MP Lisa Westerveld visited Pothoven before her death and said she was impressed by the teenager's strength.

"I will never forget her. We will continue her struggle," Westerveld told Dutch media de Gelderlander.

The teen was a self-described "mental illness warrior".

https://www.euronews.com/2019/06/04/...he-netherlands

Problematic in so many ways
__________________

Spoiler:

reece(: is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 05-06-2019, 01:00 AM #2
Marsh. Marsh. is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 79,984


Marsh. Marsh. is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 79,984


Default

I knew it was legal under "circumstances" but I assumed those circumstances were life threatening illness/disabilities.

She was literally a depressed suicidal teen and they've assisted her in killing herself. I don't see how anyone could find that ok. :/
Marsh. is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 05-06-2019, 01:05 AM #3
Mokka's Avatar
Mokka Mokka is offline
Mokka
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Canada
Posts: 10,037

Favourites (more):
BB19: Tomasz
CBB22: Kirstie Alley


Mokka Mokka is offline
Mokka
Mokka's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Canada
Posts: 10,037

Favourites (more):
BB19: Tomasz
CBB22: Kirstie Alley


Default

Wow... 17 years old.
I don't know how to feel about allowing a 17 year old to choose euthanasia... I dont see it as much different than suicide... especially when the reasoning for not wanting to continue to live is mental illness and not an untreatable physical illness. I guess it provides more dignity than suicide... but I just don't know how to wrap my head around it
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toy Soldier View Post
You've entered the post apocalyptic ruins of a site about a dead show, where every battle imaginable has already been fought a hundred times over. A cynical world of hardened arseholes where the mods have stopped caring, and the administrator is watching Tetris championships while the rest of us bicker in here.
Mokka is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 05-06-2019, 04:48 AM #4
Ammi's Avatar
Ammi Ammi is offline
Quand il pleut, il pleut
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 63,523


Ammi Ammi is offline
Quand il pleut, il pleut
Ammi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 63,523


Default

...this is so, so sad...it feels as though it’s giving up on mental health issues...’at 17 years old we couldn’t help you’......
Ammi is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 05-06-2019, 06:42 AM #5
bitontheslide's Avatar
bitontheslide bitontheslide is offline
self-oscillating
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 45,621

Favourites:
BB2023: Noky
BB19: Sian


bitontheslide bitontheslide is offline
self-oscillating
bitontheslide's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 45,621

Favourites:
BB2023: Noky
BB19: Sian


Default

i'm just speechless. Surely the state has a duty of care over her mental and emotional health
bitontheslide is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 05-06-2019, 06:57 AM #6
RileyH's Avatar
RileyH RileyH is offline
A great thief
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Lima Heights
Posts: 37,924


RileyH RileyH is offline
A great thief
RileyH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Lima Heights
Posts: 37,924


Default

Omg this is heartbreaking
__________________
RileyH is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 05-06-2019, 07:01 AM #7
Cherie's Avatar
Cherie Cherie is offline
This Witch doesn't burn
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 61,586

Favourites (more):
Strictly 2020: Bill Bailey
BB19: Sian


Cherie Cherie is offline
This Witch doesn't burn
Cherie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 61,586

Favourites (more):
Strictly 2020: Bill Bailey
BB19: Sian


Default

This is practically murder, she was raped at 14 so just 3 years ago, that's no time at all to try and get over such a traumatic event
__________________


'put a bit of lippy on and run a brush through your hair, we are alcoholics, not savages'
Cherie is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 05-06-2019, 07:08 AM #8
LeatherTrumpet's Avatar
LeatherTrumpet LeatherTrumpet is offline
You know my methods
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 93,286


LeatherTrumpet LeatherTrumpet is offline
You know my methods
LeatherTrumpet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 93,286


Default

How on earth is a child able to do this legally??
LeatherTrumpet is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 05-06-2019, 07:10 AM #9
Cherie's Avatar
Cherie Cherie is offline
This Witch doesn't burn
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 61,586

Favourites (more):
Strictly 2020: Bill Bailey
BB19: Sian


Cherie Cherie is offline
This Witch doesn't burn
Cherie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 61,586

Favourites (more):
Strictly 2020: Bill Bailey
BB19: Sian


Default

This case shows how quickly 'legal circumstances' for euthanisa will be used outside of the normal terminal cases, very scary
__________________


'put a bit of lippy on and run a brush through your hair, we are alcoholics, not savages'
Cherie is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 05-06-2019, 07:25 AM #10
Twosugars Twosugars is offline
Stiff Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: London
Posts: 9,384
Twosugars Twosugars is offline
Stiff Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: London
Posts: 9,384
Default

It is disturbing
Who let this go ahead?
Twosugars is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 05-06-2019, 08:35 AM #11
Kazanne's Avatar
Kazanne Kazanne is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Gerard Butlers Undercrackersx
Posts: 61,552

Favourites (more):
Love Island 4: Eyal
DOI 2018: Alex Beresford


Kazanne Kazanne is offline
Senior Member
Kazanne's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Gerard Butlers Undercrackersx
Posts: 61,552

Favourites (more):
Love Island 4: Eyal
DOI 2018: Alex Beresford


Default

This is so sad, that poor girl was let down so badly by so many people, heartbreaking story.
__________________


RIP Pyramid, Andyman ,Kerry and Lex xx

https://www.facebook.com/JamesBulgerMT/?fref=photo

"If slaughterhouses had glass walls, most people would be vegetarian"
Kazanne is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 05-06-2019, 08:37 AM #12
Vicky. Vicky. is offline
0_o
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 64,533


Vicky. Vicky. is offline
0_o
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 64,533


Default

Sounds shocking, but thinking about it, I don't really have a problem with is as basically, at any age someone can attempot suicide and euthanasia is..well a nicer version of suicide in my eyes. Should be legal everywhere. And available to whoever wants it so long as they are classed as able to understand the decision, same as suicides an option for all/most.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicky91 View Post
always cook meals, i did have chinese takeaways the year before the corona **** happened
but now not into takeaways anymore
Quote:
Originally Posted by Niamh. View Post
Did you get them delivered from Wuhan?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toy Soldier View Post
I would just like to take a second to congratulate Vicky, for creating the first Tibb post that needed chapters and a bibliography.

Last edited by Vicky.; 05-06-2019 at 08:38 AM.
Vicky. is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 05-06-2019, 09:14 AM #13
Livia's Avatar
Livia Livia is offline
שטח זה להשכרה
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Brasov, Transylvania
Posts: 31,114


Livia Livia is offline
שטח זה להשכרה
Livia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Brasov, Transylvania
Posts: 31,114


Default

I have problems with her being 17. It se ems that she didn't get the support she needed. But if she was older, I wouldn't have a problem. It may be a controversial view but I believe your life is your own and only you should have control over whether or not to end it.
Livia is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 05-06-2019, 09:21 AM #14
Cherie's Avatar
Cherie Cherie is offline
This Witch doesn't burn
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 61,586

Favourites (more):
Strictly 2020: Bill Bailey
BB19: Sian


Cherie Cherie is offline
This Witch doesn't burn
Cherie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 61,586

Favourites (more):
Strictly 2020: Bill Bailey
BB19: Sian


Default

My issue is that she was raped 3 years ago, I don't know what a 'reasonable' amount of time to get over something like that would be, but I think 3 years is not long enough, with regard to suicide that is a good point, but she was assisted to die, like they gave up on her, that doesn't sit too well with me
__________________


'put a bit of lippy on and run a brush through your hair, we are alcoholics, not savages'
Cherie is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 05-06-2019, 09:24 AM #15
smudgie's Avatar
smudgie smudgie is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: God's own Country
Posts: 24,186

Favourites:
BB18: Raph
X Factor 2013: Abi Alton


smudgie smudgie is offline
Senior Member
smudgie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: God's own Country
Posts: 24,186

Favourites:
BB18: Raph
X Factor 2013: Abi Alton


Default

I am a believer in euthanasia, however in this case, shame on them.
Giving permission for a young girl of this age with obvious mental health problems is a disgrace.
She should have been given the support and counselling needed to help her through this.
smudgie is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 05-06-2019, 09:30 AM #16
Livia's Avatar
Livia Livia is offline
שטח זה להשכרה
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Brasov, Transylvania
Posts: 31,114


Livia Livia is offline
שטח זה להשכרה
Livia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Brasov, Transylvania
Posts: 31,114


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cherie View Post
My issue is that she was raped 3 years ago, I don't know what a 'reasonable' amount of time to get over something like that would be, but I think 3 years is not long enough, with regard to suicide that is a good point, but she was assisted to die, like they gave up on her, that doesn't sit too well with me
I'd like to know if they caught the men who raped her. I say "men", you know what I mean. Seems like she's the one who was handed a death sentence, I'd like to at least think that they have been punished in some way but even so I am willing to travel to Holland at my own expense and hit each of their penises with a ball peen hammer.
Livia is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 05-06-2019, 09:31 AM #17
Strictly Jake's Avatar
Strictly Jake Strictly Jake is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 14,948

Favourites (more):
CBB2024: Sharon Osbourne
BB2023: Yinrun


Strictly Jake Strictly Jake is offline
Senior Member
Strictly Jake's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 14,948

Favourites (more):
CBB2024: Sharon Osbourne
BB2023: Yinrun


Default

I agree Sumdgie I believe euthanasia in certain circumstances is acceptable. If someone had weeks to live were bed bound and were in immense pain then its actually a kind thing

I just feel in this case a lot more could be done to help this girl. She wasn't at deaths door. Yes she wasn't eating or drinking and wanted to die but that doesn't mean she should have been helped to die. She needed a lot of therapy. In time she could have got better
__________________

Last edited by Strictly Jake; 05-06-2019 at 09:31 AM.
Strictly Jake is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 05-06-2019, 09:36 AM #18
Livia's Avatar
Livia Livia is offline
שטח זה להשכרה
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Brasov, Transylvania
Posts: 31,114


Livia Livia is offline
שטח זה להשכרה
Livia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Brasov, Transylvania
Posts: 31,114


Default

It seems like everyone gave up on her. At 17. It's tragic.
Livia is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 05-06-2019, 09:43 AM #19
Toy Soldier Toy Soldier is offline
-
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 30,350


Toy Soldier Toy Soldier is offline
-
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 30,350


Default

I believe in euthanasia but only at end of life for dignity (only a few months to live anyway) or for incurable conditions with unmanageable pain. Euthanasia for mental health struggles is surely a massive slippery slope? Especially in a case like this. If she had been struggling and unable to function for decades with no improvement then you could maybe make an argument for it. But 3 years after a massively traumatic event?? It's just unthinkable... there's no way at all to know how this person would have felt in 5 or 10 years time. Even in 20 years she would still have only been in her 30's and really just starting out. I honestly can't believe anyone even considered signing off on this until a lot more time had passed?
Toy Soldier is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 05-06-2019, 09:46 AM #20
Ammi's Avatar
Ammi Ammi is offline
Quand il pleut, il pleut
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 63,523


Ammi Ammi is offline
Quand il pleut, il pleut
Ammi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 63,523


Default

..she had been refusing food, I have no idea how long for...I’d like to know more about her/..her life...so I’ll try to find an English translation of her book is the only way I think...because this seems to have been very much supported by officials as well as loved ones ...so there must be a reason for that...
Ammi is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 05-06-2019, 09:52 AM #21
Vicky. Vicky. is offline
0_o
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 64,533


Vicky. Vicky. is offline
0_o
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 64,533


Default

If someone is determined to end their life, IMO its better to do it as painless and such as possible, which this method is. otherwise, its going for pills, slit wrists, etc that might not even work. I think anyone should be able to make the choice to end their life for any reason really, the options there if you want to take the risk with whatever suicide measure, only issue is you might fail and leave yourself with even more problems. I am aware that this 'anytime you chose' opinion will be very very unpopular though

That said, age limit should probably be 18. and a lot of counselling should be given first but maybe it was in this case..
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicky91 View Post
always cook meals, i did have chinese takeaways the year before the corona **** happened
but now not into takeaways anymore
Quote:
Originally Posted by Niamh. View Post
Did you get them delivered from Wuhan?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toy Soldier View Post
I would just like to take a second to congratulate Vicky, for creating the first Tibb post that needed chapters and a bibliography.

Last edited by Vicky.; 05-06-2019 at 09:52 AM.
Vicky. is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 05-06-2019, 10:50 AM #22
Kazanne's Avatar
Kazanne Kazanne is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Gerard Butlers Undercrackersx
Posts: 61,552

Favourites (more):
Love Island 4: Eyal
DOI 2018: Alex Beresford


Kazanne Kazanne is offline
Senior Member
Kazanne's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Gerard Butlers Undercrackersx
Posts: 61,552

Favourites (more):
Love Island 4: Eyal
DOI 2018: Alex Beresford


Default

Where were her parents ? or have I missed something ?
__________________


RIP Pyramid, Andyman ,Kerry and Lex xx

https://www.facebook.com/JamesBulgerMT/?fref=photo

"If slaughterhouses had glass walls, most people would be vegetarian"
Kazanne is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 05-06-2019, 11:05 AM #23
T* T* is offline
-
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: -
Posts: 20,652

Favourites (more):
BB19: Tomasz
CBB22: Kirstie Alley


T* T* is offline
-
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: -
Posts: 20,652

Favourites (more):
BB19: Tomasz
CBB22: Kirstie Alley


Default

The only good thing I can think of is at least she didn’t go in any pain, the sad truth is if she didn’t go this way she would’ve likely done it anyway and gone in a more horrific way
T* is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 05-06-2019, 11:54 AM #24
Tom4784 Tom4784 is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 45,095
Tom4784 Tom4784 is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 45,095
Default

This is just sad.

I don't think Euthanasia should be available for suicidal people, only people faced with terminal conditions who want to end their lives on their own terms. Things could have gotten better for her in time but now they never will. It's just... Sad.
Tom4784 is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 05-06-2019, 11:56 AM #25
Ammi's Avatar
Ammi Ammi is offline
Quand il pleut, il pleut
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 63,523


Ammi Ammi is offline
Quand il pleut, il pleut
Ammi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 63,523


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by T* View Post
The only good thing I can think of is at least she didn’t go in any pain, the sad truth is if she didn’t go this way she would’ve likely done it anyway and gone in a more horrific way
...yeah T*...at least there was no pain as she had self harmed for so long.....
Ammi is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Reply

Bookmark/share this topic

Tags
17, dies, euthanasia, girl, legal, netherlands, noa, pothoven, raped


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 06:06 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
 

About Us ThisisBigBrother.com

"Big Brother and UK Television Forum. Est. 2001"

 

© 2023
no new posts