[LeatherTrumpet]

Youtube video

Good teaching or eerily Orwellian?

[chuff me dizzy]

So the teachers opinion counts but not the lads ? Wow how arrogant

[Strictly Jake]

But there is only 2 genders? We are taught that at school in science lessons. Your either born a male or born a female its up to people if they change sex but still it's two genders?!

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

Youtube video

Good teaching or eerily Orwellian?

How ridiculous ,surely he is allowed an opinion,no need to chuck him out.

[Niamh.]

When you actually google it, this is what comes up :

either of the two sexes (male and female), especially when considered with reference to social and cultural differences rather than biological ones. The term is also used more broadly to denote a range of identities that do not correspond to established ideas of male and female.
"a condition that affects people of both genders"

2 genders are mentioned but then also "The term is also used more broadly to denote a range of identities that do not correspond to established ideas of male and female." which to me is re enforcing the idea that gender rather than sex is basing itself on stereotypes.

[Ammi]

...this is where the whole incident/conversation/context etc would be really helpful...impossible really to comment at all without it tbh...

[chuff me dizzy]

Originally Posted by ShakeyJake10

But there is only 2 genders? We are taught that at school in science lessons. Your either born a male or born a female its up to people if they change sex but still it's two genders?!

Totally agree

[Ammi]

...I don’t think the tutor is explaining himself very well though ...or has very good control of what was obviously a ‘situation’...

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Ammi

...this is where the whole incident/conversation/context etc would be really helpful...impossible really to comment at all without it tbh...

Haven't watched the video yet but yeah, these mobile recorded evidences can be unreliable and without proper context aswell.

[Vicky.]

Depends how you define gender. Many people use it to mean sex, in which case he is correct of course.

However the meaning of 'gender' has been used another way recently. In short, means the stereotypes associated with your sex that you follow, along with how you 'feel internally'. There are something like 90 'genders' when really, there should be 7billion as its nowt but personality and personal preferences so every single person has a different 'gender' if using the current definition.

It seems quite obvious the lad was meaning gender=sex, so yeah, there are only 2.

Either way, its ridiculous how some behave when talking about this, and kicking a kid out for giving his view is crap, but not the least bit surprising. That kind of thing happens all the time these days.

[Oliver_W]

Of course there are only two genders.

While it is separate from sex, there are still only two.

[Cherie]

the teacher looked like he didn't really believe in what he was saying, just following rules so he didn't lose his job...

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Depends how you define gender. Many people use it to mean sex, in which case he is correct of course.

This is indeed the issue but it's worth pointing out that the term "gender" has a specific origin and definition and the terms "gender" and "sex" are by definition not interchangeable. Notable because if they WERE interchangeable, the term "gender" would never have been required in the first place. Yes many people (mistakenly) believe that they mean the same thing. They don't. Sex is a biological term and there are two sexes; that is scientific fact. Gender is a sociological term not a biological term and gender is a sliding scale... that's just what it is and what it means.

If we're coming down to personal opinion, the accurate opinion of someone who is critical of that scale, would be that the sociological concept of gender is flawed or false in its entirety.

The statement that there "are only two genders" is false, by definition, and not open to interpretation... there are either a multitude, or it doesn't exist and there are none. There are not "two". Full stop.

So there are several issues here. One being that the pupil actually is both A) factually incorrect and B) over-confident in his reasons for being correct...

BUT yes, also, the teacher himself is blatantly totally unclear on this and is waving his authority wand because he doesn't actually know how to academically address the issue (by explaining the difference between the scientific / biological definition of sex, the sociological concept of gender, and the differences between the two) because HE doesn't understand it either.

So... meh. The kid is incorrect but it's also a piss-poor example of effective teaching, especially because the teacher is clearly on the verge of losing his cool when (from what's in the video) there's no reason to do so, and his approach is actually doing nothing but cementing this belief rather than helping a young mind to engage in some less-rigid thinking.

But what can you really expect in a high school teaching environment? Crap working conditions, crap pay, low prospects, little reward. It's not attracting the best and brightest and it won't - ever - until our governments realise that it is the most important thing that we should be spending on.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

This is indeed the issue but it's worth pointing out that the term "gender" has a specific origin and definition and the terms "gender" and "sex" are by definition not interchangeable. Notable because if they WERE interchangeable, the term "gender" would never have been required in the first place. Yes many people (mistakenly) believe that they mean the same thing. They don't. Sex is a biological term and there are two sexes; that is scientific fact. Gender is a sociological term not a biological term and gender is a sliding scale... that's just what it is and what it means.

If we're coming down to personal opinion, the accurate opinion of someone who is critical of that scale, would be that the sociological concept of gender is flawed or false in its entirety.

The statement that there "are only two genders" is false, by definition, and not open to interpretation... there are either a multitude, or it doesn't exist and there are none. There are not "two". Full stop.

So there are several issues here. One being that the pupil actually is both A) factually incorrect and B) over-confident in his reasons for being correct...

BUT yes, also, the teacher himself is blatantly totally unclear on this and is waving his authority wand because he doesn't actually know how to academically address the issue (by explaining the difference between the scientific / biological definition of sex, the sociological concept of gender, and the differences between the two) because HE doesn't understand it either.

So... meh. The kid is incorrect but it's also a piss-poor example of effective teaching, especially because the teacher is clearly on the verge of losing his cool when (from what's in the video) there's no reason to do so, and his approach is actually doing nothing but cementing this belief rather than helping a young mind to engage in some less-rigid thinking.

But what can you really expect in a high school teaching environment? Crap working conditions, crap pay, low prospects, little reward. It's not attracting the best and brightest and it won't - ever - until our governments realise that it is the most important thing that we should be spending on.

...brilliant post.....if only schools attracted such people as yourself...what an education world for our children, eh.....

[LeatherTrumpet]

he was pretty angry

[LeatherTrumpet]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

"But what can you really expect in a high school teaching environment? Crap working conditions, crap pay, low prospects, little reward."

what utter tosh. My kids school is brand new (as are all the HIgh Schools around this region), the facilities excellent, nice pupils and they get half the bloody year off and if they dont like it there are plenty other jobs in this age of record employment

Every advert for teaching and every teacher clearly states that IT IS A REWARDING JOB

Its not Grange Hill anymore

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

what utter tosh. My kids school is brand new (as are all the HIgh Schools around this region), the facilities excellent, nice pupils and they get half the bloody year off and if they dont like it there are plenty other jobs in this age of record employment

Every advert for teaching and every teacher clearly states that IT IS A REWARDING JOB

Its not Grange Hill anymore

I'm not saying it's as bad as retail or other minimum wage slog but the realistic upper salary cap is around Ł35k and the prospects for development beyond a senior classroom role are low. It's never going to attract the upper levels of academic talent because the pay and prospects are quite simply better and more achievable elsewhere. The profession attracts A FEW who have a genuine passion for education - those teachers certainly do exist - but is it the majority of teachers? I highly doubt it.

[LeatherTrumpet]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I'm not saying it's as bad as retail or other minimum wage slog but the realistic upper salary cap is around Ł35k and the prospects for development beyond a senior classroom role are low. It's simply never going to attract the upper levels of academic talent because the pay and prospects are quite simply better and more achievable elsewhere. The profession attracts A FEW who simply have a genuine passion for education - those teachers certainly do exist - but is it the majority of teachers? I highly doubt it.

agree the real talent goes into the private sector but who wouldn't for extra money?


also totally agree with your main post explaining the whole semantic issue problemo

If the teacher had been more clued up he could have turned it into a great learning experience for the whole class

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

agree the real talent goes into the private sector but who wouldn't for extra money?


also totally agree with your main post explaining the whole semantic issue problemo

If the teacher had been more clued up he could have turned it into a great learning experience for the whole class

exactly, why would you kick a kid out just for having an alternative view, his job is to educate him, he was kicked out because the teacher didn't have a clue how to respond...apart from errr 'inclusion'

[bitontheslide]

Did nobody spot the immense irony. "You can't voice your opinions here, we are inclusive"

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

This is indeed the issue but it's worth pointing out that the term "gender" has a specific origin and definition and the terms "gender" and "sex" are by definition not interchangeable. Notable because if they WERE interchangeable, the term "gender" would never have been required in the first place. Yes many people (mistakenly) believe that they mean the same thing. They don't. Sex is a biological term and there are two sexes; that is scientific fact. Gender is a sociological term not a biological term and gender is a sliding scale... that's just what it is and what it means.

If we're coming down to personal opinion, the accurate opinion of someone who is critical of that scale, would be that the sociological concept of gender is flawed or false in its entirety.

The statement that there "are only two genders" is false, by definition, and not open to interpretation... there are either a multitude, or it doesn't exist and there are none. There are not "two". Full stop.

So there are several issues here. One being that the pupil actually is both A) factually incorrect and B) over-confident in his reasons for being correct...

BUT yes, also, the teacher himself is blatantly totally unclear on this and is waving his authority wand because he doesn't actually know how to academically address the issue (by explaining the difference between the scientific / biological definition of sex, the sociological concept of gender, and the differences between the two) because HE doesn't understand it either.

So... meh. The kid is incorrect but it's also a piss-poor example of effective teaching, especially because the teacher is clearly on the verge of losing his cool when (from what's in the video) there's no reason to do so, and his approach is actually doing nothing but cementing this belief rather than helping a young mind to engage in some less-rigid thinking.

But what can you really expect in a high school teaching environment? Crap working conditions, crap pay, low prospects, little reward. It's not attracting the best and brightest and it won't - ever - until our governments realise that it is the most important thing that we should be spending on.

So basically you agree with Vicky that gender basically means personality type then?

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

Did nobody spot the immense irony. "You can't voice your opinions here, we are inclusive"

Exactly, there's clearly huge confusion over this topic but it seems like we're not allowed to talk about it, you're just shut down and that's it

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

So basically you agree with Vicky that gender basically means personality type then?

No, that would be a gargantuan over-simplification. There are entire Masters degrees in gender psychology.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

No, that would be a gargantuan over-simplification. There are entire Masters degrees in gender psychology.

So unless people have a masters degree they're never going to understand what gender is?

[sleleen]

There are two SEXES, there are lots and lots of genders. Get your facts right!