[arista]

She was on Yesterdays London Free Paper
Front Page

[Swan]

She was groomed, she's brown, everyone is racist blah blah blah. Same old bollocks, same old excuses.

She's shown no real remorse, she was old enough to know right from wrong, it's a pretty open and shut case. She's not the UK's responsibility, she chose the path she took. She left, she's a terrorist who wanted to cause harm to all those who are now making excuses for her.

[thesheriff443]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

She's a brown muslim girl, there's your answer. A lot more people who are demonising her now and ignoring the grooming aspect would likely be a whole lot more sympathetic if she was white.

The girl got groomed, made a dumb decision, was turned into a baby factory and lost all three kids for it by the time she was 22. If anyone else was in that situation, they'd be considered a victim.

Look at you making excuses for a terrorist and trying to make out it’s about race

You do realise some anti vaxxers are brown Muslim woman don’t you?

Look at the venom you showed towards them and yet someone that if they were still in a position to kill you as part of their on going hatred they would you see them as our responsibility

[Niamh.]

I don't know why people are acting like grooming young or vulnerable (or both) people is some made up thing, there's a lot of research into it. People are groomed online for a whole host of things from sexual abuse to terrorism. Solving this issue involves recognising where and why people like Shamima went down the path that they did and how to combat it

[thesheriff443]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

I don't know why people are acting like grooming young or vulnerable (or both) people is some made up thing, there's a lot of research into it. People are groomed online for a whole host of things from sexual abuse to terrorism. Solving this issue involves recognising where and why people like Shamima went down the path that they did and how to combat it

No one is saying grooming doesn’t happen or is made up
Do I believe she was groomed, no it’s that’s simple

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by thesheriff443

No one is saying grooming doesn’t happen or is made up
Do I believe she was groomed, no it’s that’s simple

But it's simply the facts of what happened that she was groomed... she was indoctrinated into ISIS ideology and recruited online by ISIS when she was a teenager. That part isn't in question. It would be valid to say "she already thought along those lines" or "it doesn't matter, she's dangerous now" or whatever but ... the reason her (and her friends) initially went to join the Islamic State was online grooming. That was discovered long before she "resurfaced".

[parmnion]

I feel sorry for her on so many ways tbh.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Cherie

There is something off about her in all honesty...If she does come back she needs to be on a tracker and watched 24/7

Like I said it's armchair psychology - what qualifications do you have that would allow you to assess this from some tabloid pictures and a few minutes of footage on YouTube? Maybe there is something off about her but it seems we'll never know, because she'll never be professionally assessed. We prefer kneejerk tabloid justice to actual answers in this country, it seems.

[bitontheslide]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Like I said it's armchair psychology - what qualifications do you have that would allow you to assess this from some tabloid pictures and a few minutes of footage on YouTube? Maybe there is something off about her but it seems we'll never know, because she'll never be professionally assessed. We prefer kneejerk tabloid justice to actual answers in this country, it seems.

this is where you are completely wrong TS. A court has stripped her of her citizenship for her actions. Nothing arm chair about it. It was a legal process. She isn't coming back and I am perfectly fine with that. She has been professionally assessed by the courts. Don't let the fact that you don't like the outcome stand in the way of the reality

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Like I said it's armchair psychology - what qualifications do you have that would allow you to assess this from some tabloid pictures and a few minutes of footage on YouTube? Maybe there is something off about her but it seems we'll never know, because she'll never be professionally assessed. We prefer kneejerk tabloid justice to actual answers in this country, it seems.

Saying she could help against the war on terror...is that wise given where she is?surely that would put a target in her back

And the way she flounced off post interview saying the UK didn’t know what it was doing...granted that might be right...but you don’t get a country onside with a comment like that

Simple observation....no psychology involved

[joeysteele]

As was pointed out on Question Time last night.
The Supreme Court didn't rule on whether she should lose her British citizenship.

It ruled only that the government was legal in deciding to remove it.

It leaves therefore as Kate Green of Labour was pressed, even by the audience, although the government were legal to do so.
However was the government wrong to remove her citizenship.

Kate Green was criticised for not opposing the government and to say they were wrong.

It's like it was legal for the government to say bring in the bedroom tax which causes many to lose their homes or be moved on.
However it wasn't right to do it.
Despite being legal.

What the court was saying.
If the government decided to leave her British citizenship in place or decide to remove it.
They, the government, not the Court, had the legal right to make that decision.

Whether it's right or wrong is another matter.
We've had many bad things done in the name of being legal.

If she were to return, no one is saying she should walk around free.
As the overall view on Question Time, from panel,( except the Con Minister and I think one of the audience who spoke), she should be allowed back to face the accusations and charges, held until gone through the Courts, then whatever sentence imposed, having to be carried out.

If any, even small, valuable information can in fact be collated from her as to how the terrorist network grooms and works.
Then I think that preferable.

I have no time for her myself.
However, as she is, yes in a camp, she is never going to have to face any justice procedure anywhere.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

this is where you are completely wrong TS. A court has stripped her of her citizenship for her actions. Nothing arm chair about it. It was a legal process. She isn't coming back and I am perfectly fine with that. She has been professionally assessed by the courts. Don't let the fact that you don't like the outcome stand in the way of the reality

What does any of this have to do with Cherie stating that there's "something off about her"? Baffling response there Bots, maybe you didn't read the quoted post?

Originally Posted by Cherie

Saying she could help against the war on terror...is that wise given where she is?surely that would put a target in her back

It would likely be suicide whilst in a prison camp abroad, though it could easily be done from a UK facility.

And the way she flounced off post interview saying the UK didn’t know what it was doing...granted that might be right...but you don’t get a country onside with a comment like that

She's a 22 year old who has had no formal education since her mid-teens, I don't think her lack of skill in terms of diplomacy is particularly surprising. But no it's not a way to get the public onside. Which again, is why these decisions should be being made properly by professionals, and not as PR decisions based on the musings and outrage of Joe Public.

Simple observation....no psychology involved

Were you saying there's something off about her physically? Her hair? Her hat, maybe? I assumed you were saying there's something off about her attitude/manner/how she comes across which is 100% psychology of course... and again, not something that laypeople are qualified to assess. Everyone can have an opinion but like I said, we'll never actually get an actual answer, because she isn't being brought back for professionals to assess.

[AnnieK]

Her citizenship was stripped for nothing more than political point scoring. The Government knew that if they brought her back to the UK, the public outcry would be huge but only because she was so high profile due to her age and sex. They have brought back many people who fought for ISIS and placed them in anti radicalisation programmes. A lot of them males who actually fought for ISIS.... Had her story not have made the news for being a young girl who fled there, she would have been back a long time ago.

https://www.ft.com/content/11fd7c00-...4-fbbacad9e7dd


"Of the 900 Britons estimated to have travelled to fight with Isis, around 40 per cent have already returned, 20 per cent are thought to have died and the remainder, around 360, are still in the Middle East."

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by AnnieK

Her citizenship was stripped for nothing more than political point scoring. The Government knew that if they brought her back to the UK, the public outcry would be huge but only because she was so high profile due to her age and sex. They have brought back many people who fought for ISIS and placed them in anti radicalisation programmes. A lot of them males who actually fought for ISIS.... Had her story not have made the news for being a young girl who fled there, she would have been back a long time ago.

https://www.ft.com/content/11fd7c00-...4-fbbacad9e7dd


"Of the 900 Britons estimated to have travelled to fight with Isis, around 40 per cent have already returned, 20 per cent are thought to have died and the remainder, around 360, are still in the Middle East."

well, well, well

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by AnnieK

Her citizenship was stripped for nothing more than political point scoring. The Government knew that if they brought her back to the UK, the public outcry would be huge but only because she was so high profile due to her age and sex. They have brought back many people who fought for ISIS and placed them in anti radicalisation programmes. A lot of them males who actually fought for ISIS.... Had her story not have made the news for being a young girl who fled there, she would have been back a long time ago.

https://www.ft.com/content/11fd7c00-...4-fbbacad9e7dd


"Of the 900 Britons estimated to have travelled to fight with Isis, around 40 per cent have already returned, 20 per cent are thought to have died and the remainder, around 360, are still in the Middle East."

We always knew they brought people back though

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

What does any of this have to do with Cherie stating that there's "something off about her"? Baffling response there Bots, maybe you didn't read the quoted post?



It would likely be suicide whilst in a prison camp abroad, though it could easily be done from a UK facility.



She's a 22 year old who has had no formal education since her mid-teens, I don't think her lack of skill in terms of diplomacy is particularly surprising. But no it's not a way to get the public onside. Which again, is why these decisions should be being made properly by professionals, and not as PR decisions based on the musings and outrage of Joe Public.



Were you saying there's something off about her physically? Her hair? Her hat, maybe? I assumed you were saying there's something off about her attitude/manner/how she comes across which is 100% psychology of course... and again, not something that laypeople are qualified to assess. Everyone can have an opinion but like I said, we'll never actually get an actual answer, because she isn't being brought back for professionals to assess.

It’s my opinion, no psychology involved

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Cherie

It’s my opinion, no psychology involved

If you have an opinion on how someone comes across/their mannerisms and think there's no psychology involved, that can only be because you don't know what psychology is? It is psychology. That's not a matter of opinion. The comment that "something seems off about her" is a comment on her psychology. If you hear someone laughing outside your window and say "Oh, she sounds happy" ... that is a comment on that person's psychology. Psychology doesn't just mean "abnormal stuff".

[AnnieK]

Originally Posted by Cherie

We always knew they brought people back though

I'm not saying it was a secret but I am saying in my opinion why Shamima was stripped. Because of the coverage at the time and subsequently when she popped up at the refugee camp she became recognisable.

I am sure a lot of the men who went out to fight committed far more heinous crimes but because their pictures have not been splashed across the media, they have been allowed to quietly return.

It is political posturing at its best. We are probably in far more danger from the fighters who have returned, who are trained jihadi's than a kid who has spent more time in a refugee camp than actually with ISIS.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by AnnieK

I'm not saying it was a secret but I am saying in my opinion why Shamima was stripped. Because of the coverage at the time and subsequently when she popped up at the refugee camp she became recognisable.

I am sure a lot of the men who went out to fight committed far more heinous crimes but because their pictures have not been splashed across the media, they have been allowed to quietly return.

It is political posturing at its best. We are probably in far more danger from the fighters who have returned, who are trained jihadi's than a kid who has spent more time in a refugee camp than actually with ISIS.

This is beyond question really, we've brought back people objectively far more dangerous, the reason she was stripped of citizenship and continues to be denied is because it's high profile and the government don't want the bad PR. It's that simple.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

If you have an opinion on how someone comes across/their mannerisms and think there's no psychology involved, that can only be because you don't know what psychology is? It is psychology. That's not a matter of opinion. The comment that "something seems off about her" is a comment on her psychology. If you hear someone laughing outside your window and say "Oh, she sounds happy" ... that is a comment on that person's psychology. Psychology doesn't just mean "abnormal stuff".

I leave the armchair psychology to you

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Cherie

I leave the armchair psychology to you

You don't though, that was the whole point, you just think you do because you don't actually know what it means.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by AnnieK

I'm not saying it was a secret but I am saying in my opinion why Shamima was stripped. Because of the coverage at the time and subsequently when she popped up at the refugee camp she became recognisable.

I am sure a lot of the men who went out to fight committed far more heinous crimes but because their pictures have not been splashed across the media, they have been allowed to quietly return.

It is political posturing at its best. We are probably in far more danger from the fighters who have returned, who are trained jihadi's than a kid who has spent more time in a refugee camp than actually with ISIS.

Thats my opinion also, that said I don’t care about her situation...sorry not sorry

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

You don't though, that was the whole point, you just think you do because you don't actually know what it means.

Ok

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Cherie

Ok

[rusticgal]

Maybe if she had shown some genuine remorse over her actions in the first place she wouldn't be in the situation she is today...