[Captain.Remy]

Originally Posted by WOMBAI

That is so easy to say whilst you and your family are in good health! If and when put to the test - and either your life or the life of a loved one depends on it - you may well see it differently! And until that point comes - you can't know how you will feel then!

Too bad my uncle needed a kidney and the only person left who had to give it to him was my dad and another brother. My uncles and my dad refused on a common agreement. They found another donor.
I know what I'm talking about WOMBAI, don't worry. I'm far from being thick.

[Patrick]

Um I think Religion is a **** thing and we should all **** and forget about gods and just stop with it.

[WOMBAI]

Originally Posted by Captain.Remy

Too bad my uncle needed a kidney and the only person left who had to give it to him was my dad and another brother. My uncles and my dad refused on a common agreement. They found another donor.
I know what I'm talking about WOMBAI, don't worry. I'm far from being thick.

I am not suggesting you are thick - but emotions can cloud our judgements. What if everyone felt like that - there wouldn't have been another donor for your uncle - and he may have died!

[Captain.Remy]

Originally Posted by WOMBAI

I am not suggesting you are thick - but emotions can cloud our judements. What if everyone felt like that - there wouldn't have been another donor for your uncle - and he may have died!

I know but then I don't ask myself the question because it never happened. I honestly don't expect people to understand me, I'm usually a logical person, I like to give reasons and think logically about everything I do but on this one, there may be not logical reason on the paper but that's how I see it.
This also applies to charity. There are people who do that because it's needed and we need people like them. It's just not for me.

[Sophii3x]

Originally Posted by Shasown

Actually I think Passive smokers are worse, I mean taking all that nicotine and tar smokers have to pay for, for free, you would think they would at least buy the odd packet of ciggies for their smoker mates, oh no all they do is complain.

Lmao, passive smokers? as in people who have to inhale other people's smoke when they don't want to.. thank god for the smoking ban now. I just find smokers who smoke in front of others beyond selfish and people who smoke in front of kids deserve to be locked up as do pregnant women who smoke.

I also don't get why smoking while driving is legal.. it's probably as dangerous/distracting as using a phone at the wheel.

[Shasown]

Originally Posted by Claymores

Scotland has historically benefitted because of Grants under the "poverty" definitions. You can hardly say it's a great thing that local authorities were able to demonstrate their population was suffering from poverty/social exclusion/economic decline and therefore more eligible for things like ERDF/ESF that other deprived parts of the EU.

Economic decline yeah some of that could be blamed on whoever is/was in power, however there is also the demographic element which accounts for a good share of ERDF awards etc. Declines in industry etc may not always be the result of government policy it could also be bad management, non reliability of local work force etc.

However you are now talking about disparity across the whole of the EU, and that whole situation has now changed with the inclusion of Czech Republic, Romania, Lithuania etc. Those countries will receive the lions share of funds in the future. And the thing is, they are in the EU currently, Scotland if it goes it alone may not be.

[Shasown]

Originally Posted by Sophii3x

Lmao, passive smokers? as in people who have to inhale other people's smoke when they don't want to.. thank god for the smoking ban now. I just find smokers who smoke in front of others beyond selfish and people who smoke in front of kids deserve to be locked up as do pregnant women who smoke.

I also don't get why smoking while driving is legal.. it's probably as dangerous/distracting as using a phone at the wheel.

Ah well you may have to lock me up I love standing outside the local schools where the pupils can see me and light up. If it was playtime that would be a different matter, those little blighters aren't getting any of my nicotine without paying for it.

As for smoking while driving, there is nothing wrong with that, what gets me is the idiots trying to distract me with thier lights and horns while driving and rolling my cigarettes.

Non smokers should move away, how inconsiderate of them to expect smokers to move, we are the ones with reduced lung capacity, poor circulation and inefficient cardio vascular systems

[Stacey.]

Originally Posted by Shasown

Economic decline yeah some of that could be blamed on whoever is/was in power, however there is also the demographic element which accounts for a good share of ERDF awards etc. Declines in industry etc may not always be the result of government policy it could also be bad management, non reliability of local work force etc.

However you are now talking about disparity across the whole of the EU, and that whole situation has now changed with the inclusion of Czech Republic, Romania, Lithuania etc. Those countries will receive the lions share of funds in the future. And the thing is, they are in the EU currently, Scotland if it goes it alone may not be.

youre very intellegent.

[Claymores]

Originally Posted by Shasown

Economic decline yeah some of that could be blamed on whoever is/was in power, however there is also the demographic element which accounts for a good share of ERDF awards etc. Declines in industry etc may not always be the result of government policy it could also be bad management, non reliability of local work force etc.

However you are now talking about disparity across the whole of the EU, and that whole situation has now changed with the inclusion of Czech Republic, Romania, Lithuania etc. Those countries will receive the lions share of funds in the future. And the thing is, they are in the EU currently, Scotland if it goes it alone may not be.

Hmmmm - so you think that the EU would decline an independant Scotland membership of the EU.........this seriously is a uniquely whacky view, and not one I've EVER encountered before.

[Captain.Remy]

Originally Posted by Shasown

Economic decline yeah some of that could be blamed on whoever is/was in power, however there is also the demographic element which accounts for a good share of ERDF awards etc. Declines in industry etc may not always be the result of government policy it could also be bad management, non reliability of local work force etc.

However you are now talking about disparity across the whole of the EU, and that whole situation has now changed with the inclusion of Czech Republic, Romania, Lithuania etc. Those countries will receive the lions share of funds in the future. And the thing is, they are in the EU currently, Scotland if it goes it alone may not be.

Sounds like I have someone else to talk economics with. I felt a bit alone. Such a passion to me. I'd love to win the Nobel Prize in Economics. Probably will never happen tho lol

[Shasown]

Originally Posted by Claymores

Hmmmm - so you think that the EU would decline an independant Scotland membership of the EU.........this seriously is a uniquely whacky view, and not one I've EVER encountered before.

Its not just scotland they could decline membership to, everyone thinks its a given thing, however its not the UK was accepted in and if scotland became independent they would have to apply for membership same as any other country wanting to enter, but the most important thing to remember is it could also mean that the rest of the UK (England Wales and Northern Ireland) could and should also face the same application. If collectively the UK have upset enough European countries in the past and they decide to hold it against us the whole of the UK could be out.

[Claymores]

Originally Posted by Shasown

Its not just scotland they could decline membership to, everyone thinks its a given thing, however its not the UK was accepted in and if scotland became independent they would have to apply for membership same as any other country wanting to enter, but the most important thing to remember is it could also mean that the rest of the UK (England Wales and Northern Ireland) could and should also face the same application. If collectively the UK have upset enough European countries in the past and they decide to hold it against us the whole of the UK could be out.

I can assure you that nobody in the Scottish Office or officials from the Scottish Parliament have this fear regarding Scotland's application. The country of England & Wales is not a concern.........it's their application to make and we don't care. I suspect however, that an EU which dismissed the country of England & Wales would be so strongly frowned upon as to destroy the "Union"

[Shasown]

Originally Posted by Claymores

I can assure you that nobody in the Scottish Office or officials from the Scottish Parliament have this fear regarding Scotland's application. The country of England & Wales is not a concern.........it's their application to make and we don't care. I suspect however, that an EU which dismissed the country of England & Wales would be so strongly frowned upon as to destroy the "Union"

Ok then let me explain it this way, France decided that in future it will hold a national referendum to decide on its policy to new applications to the EU, Spain could do the same, why would spain do that, think carefully before answering?

Now have a look at this:

http://news.scotsman.com/scottishind...-to.3328377.jp

Now this, yes i know its from a unionist website, but the points are clear and fair.

http://www.scottishunionist.com/2008...debatable.html

Now this, no not all of it, just scroll down to the part headed scotland and read the 8th paragraph.

http://www.ukpac.org/sunningdale290108.htm

And the answer to why spain would possibly veto Scotlands application - The EU Common Fisheries Policy. If Scotland was to be allowed in to the EU as an independant nation it could claim back fishing grounds that the UK traded during the last 30 years. Spain would use a threatened veto against Scotland to ensure they made some sort of commitment not to claim the fishing rights back.

Look at the problems Greenland had when trying to get of the EU private members club and that was all based around the fishing policy.

Would Salmond and co agree to that precondition? And would he also agree to conversion to the euro?

Now what was it you said? Oh yes "this seriously is a uniquely whacky view, and not one I've EVER encountered before"

Not so wacky a view after all. There are other articles in the newspapers and on the net still arguing the same case, now Salmond loves to put across how well Scotland would do in the European Union, thing is being in the Union isnt guaranteed. A fact he always plays down.

[Claymores]

I beg to differ - the theoretical is already partly negotiated if you speak to senior Scottish politicians and Scottish Office Officials - would involve some concessions. Taking the Euro was never a concession as the SNP have wanted that all along, as have many Scots to assist in the process of divorcing/differentiating from the nation of England & Wales

Pulling up bits from a Unionist Website seems quite frankly desperate. Do you have an agenda for Unionism?

[Shasown]

Originally Posted by Claymores

I beg to differ - the theoretical is already partly negotiated if you speak to senior Scottish politicians and Scottish Office Officials - would involve some concessions. Taking the Euro was never a concession as the SNP have wanted that all along, as have many Scots to assist in the process of divorcing/differentiating from the nation of England & Wales

Pulling up bits from a Unionist Website seems quite frankly desperate. Do you have an agenda for Unionism?

Not at all,I did state the link was a unionist website but the claims are valid and factual, but I will further enhance the reasons why Scotland will potentially have problems.

THERE is no precedent of a member state breaking up, which means the issue of an independent Scotland's position within the EU is under speculation. If you think about it Spain will veto it on the grounds of the problems it will cause with separatists in its north. Look at the problems with Kosovo.

Plus Salmond has already stated he would withdraw from the CFP, not a wise statement given he has claimed Scotland will get straight in but the EU itself has not stated this is the case, they refuse to comment on hypothetical cases.

As for your statement that things have already been partly negotiated, care to provide something concrete to back that up? And would it really be wise to join the Euro seeing the problems the recent Greek financial crisis caused? You say many Scots, is that backed by statistical analysis, any research?

International case law favours the notion that the larger entity in a political break-up is usually designated the inheritor of all treaty obligations. This would therefore leave Scottish ministers having to negotiate not just membership of the EU, but of the United Nations and the WTO. However, many argue it would not benefit the EU to fracture borders, at a time when it is engaged in enlargement.

( http://news.scotsman.com/europeanuni...for.3589518.jp )

Actually it would be far easier for the EU to simply state, yeah you can be an independant nation however we will deal with you through the UK.

As for the case that they will sail straight into Europe, as many times as he and Sturgeon keep giving the same old garbage, they dont and cant state it as given. Just because other members of their party say it will be so doesnt mean it really will be. He can state it, but you will notice senior European Official also state the opposite.

[Shasown]

One other point you should bear in mind, its not really Scotlands Oil, most of belongs in the Shetland Basin so technically its Shetlands Oil, the shetlanders are a strange bunch and in reality are more Nordic than Celtic.

I seem to recall that when the UK moved towards the Common Market in the 70's an independence movement sprang up that stated it would prefer to go it alone like its Norwegian brothers rather than its Scottish cousins, so when you open the Indepenence Box you have to be careful what is actually let out.

Wouldnt it be funny if Scotland did gain independance then Shetland demanded to go it alone, taking their oil with them?

[bbfan1991]

I can't stand St Cheryl Cole the supposed ''nation's sweetheart''.
I like David Cameron

['Conor]

i disagree with alot of religion stuff and so my religion teacher hates me

['Conor]

Originally Posted by bbfan1991

I can't stand St Cheryl Cole the supposed ''nation's sweetheart''.
I like David Cameron

i cant stand her either !

[Zippy]

That JedwardFever is a legend and will one day rule the world...starting with TIBB.

Just mark my words....

[BB_Eye]

Originally Posted by Shasown

One other point you should bear in mind, its not really Scotlands Oil, most of belongs in the Shetland Basin so technically its Shetlands Oil, the shetlanders are a strange bunch and in reality are more Nordic than Celtic.

I seem to recall that when the UK moved towards the Common Market in the 70's an independence movement sprang up that stated it would prefer to go it alone like its Norwegian brothers rather than its Scottish cousins, so when you open the Indepenence Box you have to be careful what is actually let out.

Wouldnt it be funny if Scotland did gain independance then Shetland demanded to go it alone, taking their oil with them?

Nothing like a very rich, very small country. I could live the rest of my life there. ^_^

[WOMBAI]

That some on here need to go out and get some personal experience - walk the walk, instead of talk the talk!