[Kizzy]

The government have pledged £1.5M into research into suicide prevention.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/20...ntion-strategy

''Around 4,200 people in England took their own lives in 2010 and suicide continues to be a public health issue – especially during a period of economic uncertainty, the Department of Health said.

The suicide rate is highest amongst men aged 35-49, while men are three times more likely than women to take their own life, according to statistics''

I hope the government take stock from these stats, whilst counselling, ad campaigns and self help groups are great for raising awareness they are not enough.
A much more proactive stance is needed to help these middle aged men whose families depend on them, a decent living wage that's what is needed.

[fruit_cake]

The article doesn't seem to say any reasons why these people kill themselves. There could be a million and one reasons why. I'm not so sure that the wages they receive is the only factor in their decision.

[Kizzy]

Thats just my opinion, i'm suggesting the pressures due to the recession, failing to secure employment or maybe redundancy has impacted on the increased figures for this age group.
To me the only way to alleviate this is to create more better paid jobs.

[the truth]

Good thread, fair play.

men commit suicide at 3 to 4 times the rate of women across the entire world. Clearly there is more pressure on men, especially in terms of earning a living, but also in terms of maintaining their family and keeping their children and their homes. in 80% + of divorces men lose their home, their children and 50% of their future income. regardless of which person had an affair. that is an enormous burden on men and would destroy anyone.

also there are 1000 times more support agencies for women than men in the UK. its a national disgrace and is not being addressed by cowardly sexist poiliticians, councillors journalists

[Vicky.]

Hmm, doesnt make much sense to me tbh while they are on about cutting disabled peoples benefits if they refuse to be forced into work that they cannot do, reducing housing benefit so many people will end up on the streets (I agree something needs to be done about housing though, but the way they are doing it is wrong) and while ATOS are still in operation putting many people through unnecessary stress and hardship.

Also I dont really believe it is possible to 'prevent' suicide. As those who are actually serious about doing it do not let people know they are going to do it. It comes out of the blue.

[Kate!]

I'd venture the opinion that the suicide rate being higher among men than women in general, quite aside from the root causes (be it unemployment/other financial pressures or some other reason) could be attributed to the fact that women have stronger support systems in place, i.e. we tend to talk out our problems, listen to each other and this is an effective coping mechanism. Men however, because it seems to be expected of them, tend more to keep it all inside, shoulder the burden internally and it's not really a good thing. I'm aware this is a generalisation, as people from each gender may not fit this stereotype, but on the whole I do think it's pretty valid, just the "way of the world".

[Kizzy]

Really good point kate, there was an ad campaign aimed at men with mental health issues on TV a while back if I remember.
It was I think trying to get rid of the stigma of taking time off due to stress, we may see a return of that?
It would be interesting to see which socio economic group is most affected.

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by the truth

Good thread, fair play.

men commit suicide at 3 to 4 times the rate of women across the entire world. Clearly there is more pressure on men, especially in terms of earning a living, but also in terms of maintaining their family and keeping their children and their homes. in 80% + of divorces men lose their home, their children and 50% of their future income. regardless of which person had an affair. that is an enormous burden on men and would destroy anyone.

also there are 1000 times more support agencies for women than men in the UK. its a national disgrace and is not being addressed by cowardly sexist poiliticians, councillors journalists

I think it's more to do with the fact that men are taught to be stoic and macho, and unwilling to humble themselves and accept their failures and ask for help.

We need to stop teaching boys that they have to be stoic and macho and in control. Because when they can't be those things they feel worthless and lose hope. They are embarrassed to admit that they are not strong and that they do need help.

Of course there are a million reasons though, mental illness is very complex. As far as i know there has not been a single cure found for any of the hundreds of mental illnesses. The human brain is still very much a mystery to us.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by lostalex

I think it's more to do with the fact that men are taught to be stoic and macho, and unwilling to humble themselves and accept their failures and ask for help.

We need to stop teaching boys that they have to be stoic and macho and in control. Because when they can't be those things they feel worthless and lose hope. They are embarrassed to admit that they are not strong and that they do need help.

Of course there are a million reasons though, mental illness is very complex. As far as i know there has not been a single cure found for any of the hundreds of mental illnesses. The human brain is still very much a mystery to us.

the social system and legal system is biased in favor of women. There are 1000s more support systems in place for women than men. so whilst its right to say men need to open up and be less macho. even when the do, theres no support system around to help them.

I would also add, men lose 80% of divorces, and their children and their homes. Its impossible for average joe to rebuild his life after that. women still have the option of being a mother at home with a roof over their heads. men have no option but to go through a lifetime of work. when they lose their homes, their wife and kids at the same time. its enough to break most men. especially when theres no support system in place either.

I would also point to the school system. men have been so villified in mainstream news, that barely any ,men teach children anymore. this has directly meant, with the 50% divorce rate, young men have no male role models at home or in the school. the facts prove, that any boy with no father has a significantly lower chance of becoming successful in life. I know single mothers will scream that down. But the evidence to support that fact is enormous and indisputable

the courts and the social system, as well as the culture at large, must be unbiased in all aspects.

even in less trivial matters. women can go on tv and laugh AT and mock men. and we are all meant to laugh. when andy gray did it , when he was NOt televising live about a throw away joke about having a female lineswoman at a mens game. he was destroyed. he was sacked from a job he had been fantastic at for 20 years and he lost his home. the real truth was in fact he was in legal wranglings alreay with rupert murdoch, so they used the so called sexual discrimination card to get him sacked.

double standards benefit no one. they hurt and damage everyone

dont get me wrong I realise, poor working class people couldnt vote 100 years ago. but it was men and women who couldnt vote, not just women. I realise the abortion laws were neanderthal and caused innumerable tragedies for women. i respect that. Now I believe they are way too many anomalies and bias in law. I believe tv and mainstream media has distorted public perception which has ultimately corrupted our balance , moral judgement and political laws.

It needs to be addresssed seriously and a long term strategy put in place. simply tell all these millions of suicidal men to man up or be less macho is patronizing trivial nonsense.

[lostalex]

Well it's no more patronizing or trivial than saying that improving divorce law would fix the problem.

And i think that divorce rate is also affected by that social problem of men being taught to think that they should be in control, that they should be stoic, that they should be macho and unflinching leaders all the time. Male pride is just as much a reason for the divorce rate as it is for the suicide rate, imo. So we could kill 2 birds with 1 stone on that one.

[thesheriff443]

the goverment would do better to give the money to the families of the suicide victims!
you will never stop people wanting to and takeing their own lives!.

[fruit_cake]

Originally Posted by thesheriff443

the goverment would do better to give the money to the families of the suicide victims!
you will never stop people wanting to and takeing their own lives!.

yeah I agree, It does seem to be a lost cause really

[Me. I Am Salman]

Originally Posted by the truth

Good thread, fair play.

men commit suicide at 3 to 4 times the rate of women across the entire world. Clearly there is more pressure on men, especially in terms of earning a living, but also in terms of maintaining their family and keeping their children and their homes. in 80% + of divorces men lose their home, their children and 50% of their future income. regardless of which person had an affair. that is an enormous burden on men and would destroy anyone.

also there are 1000 times more support agencies for women than men in the UK. its a national disgrace and is not being addressed by cowardly sexist poiliticians, councillors journalists

you always seem to hate on women

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by Salman!

you always seem to hate on women

you're not the only one who's noticed.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by lostalex

Well it's no more patronizing or trivial than saying that improving divorce law would fix the problem.

And i think that divorce rate is also affected by that social problem of men being taught to think that they should be in control, that they should be stoic, that they should be macho and unflinching leaders all the time. Male pride is just as much a reason for the divorce rate as it is for the suicide rate, imo. So we could kill 2 birds with 1 stone on that one.

women control the family home far more than men, so what you have just said is simply wrong

[the truth]

Originally Posted by lostalex

Well it's no more patronizing or trivial than saying that improving divorce law would fix the problem.

And i think that divorce rate is also affected by that social problem of men being taught to think that they should be in control, that they should be stoic, that they should be macho and unflinching leaders all the time. Male pride is just as much a reason for the divorce rate as it is for the suicide rate, imo. So we could kill 2 birds with 1 stone on that one.

your first sentence is utter nonsense, no offence. balancing the law is far more profound than telling men to man up?

The divorce rate is a combination of many factors. However the bias in law in favour of mothers, stemming from the bias in favour of mothers must be addressed urgently. This is a major factor in women winning over 80% of divorces, keeping the family home and custody of children in over 80% of cases.

There is also an estimate ratio of nearly 1000 to 1 times more support agencies for men than women in the UK. How can anyone suggets that is fair , just or balanced. meanwhile men commit suicide at 3 to 4 times the rate (and the gap is widening) and the so called caring british public does virtually nothing about it.

[thesheriff443]

this thread is pointless!
people get support and have loveing families,but they still take their life!
people have more money than they need and no worries and yet they still kill themselves!
a person can wake up one day and choose to end their life.
a person can take stupid risks and lose their life.
dieing is easy liveing is hard!.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by thesheriff443

this thread is pointless!
people get support and have loveing families,but they still take their life!
people have more money than they need and no worries and yet they still kill themselves!
a person can wake up one day and choose to end their life.
a person can take stupid risks and lose their life.
dieing is easy liveing is hard!.

No it isn't, It has done what I wanted and encouraged people to discuss what might be the contributory factors to suicide...
Alex and the truth to me are both right, boys are socialised into internalising their feelings like a pressure cooker, and sometimes those things explode.
The truth is also correct in that the breakdown of the family could effect a man due to the isolation from his home and children, I can totally understand that.
Maybe we are shifting from a patriarchal to a more matriarchal society, I'm not getting all Samantha Brick here (god forbid) but it is important to maintain a balance.

There has also been a rise in the numer of men who not only take their own life but their family or children too, what makes a man do this?
It happened in my area recently, and nobody could explain it.

[fruit_cake]

um suicide is not just about men, it affects everyone, and not least the people those men leave behind. Perhaps the reason why more men commit suicide is they do not care about those they leave behind ahem

[the truth]

Originally Posted by kizzy

No it isn't, It has done what I wanted and encouraged people to discuss what might be the contributory factors to suicide...
Alex and the truth to me are both right, boys are socialised into internalising their feelings like a pressure cooker, and sometimes those things explode.
The truth is also correct in that the breakdown of the family could effect a man due to the isolation from his home and children, I can totally understand that.
Maybe we are shifting from a patriarchal to a more matriarchal society, I'm not getting all Samantha Brick here (god forbid) but it is important to maintain a balance.

There has also been a rise in the numer of men who not only take their own life but their family or children too, what makes a man do this?
It happened in my area recently, and nobody could explain it.

Goos post, thank goodness at least one poster sees the problem. Its happened for decades. It has simply never been addressed.
Men in those situations have literally have no one to turn to , no one to advise them either.
Imagine the situation. Youre a young man working your way through the pressures of school and college. Obviously a man must work his whole life and earn a living, its compulsory. So when he gets through school and chooses a career, he then embarks on that for the next few years to try and obtain a qualification that leads to a decent job. A friend of mine for example is a tool maker, this took him around 5 years of study and work placements. Another works for the council, he has a degree too.

So he left university aged 23 with a qualification. He earns approx £25,000 p/a. He took out a mortgage on a £175,000 house. He married with 2 young children. He awoke one morning and hiw wife told him it was over. Totally out of the blue.

So he left to live on his mothers couch. 3 years later, he is still paying the mortgage for her , plus most costs for the children. Meanwhile she has moved her boyfriend in, this is the chap she was cheating on him with. He is emotionally , mentally, financially too exhausted to change the situation hes in. He works 7 till 5, he pays his parents rent, he pays his mortgage and for his children, so theres not much income left to try and change his circumstances. This is the nicest bloke you could ever meet. Hiw ex wife, has never worked. He has been through the courts to a degree, but found the law in favor of his wife and the sheer expense and time and also the harm done to the young children would cause too much damage. so he pays the bills, yet the cheating bloke lives in his family home for free. He has no advice, no bodies to really turn to , to give him substantial advice. People just shrug their shoulders? what would you do in his situation

Ill give you another example. another mate, meets a girl falls in love. great, were all happy for them. he sells his house which hes built up for years, with new fireplace, new kitchen etc as she wants to move into a nice residential are for £250,000. he sells his £150,000 house. takes a mortgage on the rest.
when they move in, her personality chnages. she demands a drive, new kitchen, all marble. she demands the garden is redone and wants all the pipes replacing and he buys her a brand new car in her brand new drive. this comes to over £30,000. he does it all without any quibbles. then she starts telling him to patrol the neighbourhood if nay park near her drive or makes a noise at night etc

ok so then shes pregnant, this is around a year into the marriage. the child is born. they argue more and more. as the pressure of his bills and the new child take effect. he has to work longer hours to pay the bills. she keeps ringing the police about the neighbours simple for playing a musical instrument in the day or parking by her drive. ok so after the child is around a year old, he gets home one day and finds the door locks changed? he tries to break in and she gets the police to try and arrest him. he explains its his house. they ignore that and take his details. he islocked out of his home permanently.

he has to go through the courts to get access to his equipment, but by the time he is allowed access, she has destroyed much of his belongings , including his entire home gym. a few months later, she moves in her boyfriend.
he is living on his mothers couch but paying all her bills 100% himself on the mortgage and the car repayments and he has given up his whole life savings to buy the house and his personal stuff has been destroyed.

she then goes to court to prevent him getting access to his son on grounds on him having bad eyesight. he has a condition which affects his sight.
the next few years are spent, fighting through the courts, amassing huge legal bills, paying the £100,000 mortgage off and the car loans off, paying for the child (despite stopping access, she still wants all the money)working round the clock and fighting to get access to his son. meanwhile the man his wife is having an affair with lives in his £250,000 house for free

Now what would you or anyone do in his situation?

is it any wonder how some men give up inthis country and jump of a bridge

These are just 2 examples and I assure you, these are the nicest most genuine, honest hard working, decent people you could ever meet. But their wives dont see them that way, they see them as suckers!

mans world my as*