[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Mrluvaluva

That is an answer a lot of people give, and whatever way it's said, there is only one response to that. And that is it's wrong.

People know the difference between right and wrong but refuse to do anything about it, enabling the abuse to carry on and for further victims to be affected by it.

I don't buy the above as an excuse for this not being brought to the attention of the authorities. If nothing ever came of any allegations, at least they could say they had tried to do something about it.

You had to have been there. People in authority, doctors, policemen, teachers, christian brothers, clergymen, TV stars were all beyond reproach. Its not an excuse it was the way it was, the same way as single mothers were put into institutions in the 50s, nobody is saying it was right, maybe some people did speak out but their voices would have been shut down. Lets face it, these allegations were circulating in the 90s and even up to his death, nobody wanted to face the truth, even in this so called enlightened age.

[Sticks]

I have to declare an interest

I have personally met Mr Saville in the course of my duties when we were promoting In Town without your car day in 2003.

If any of these allegations were true, why were they not reported to the authorities when he was alive?

The way all these people are emerging out of the woodwork, when he is no longer around to defend himself seems suspicious. Could it be that some are seeking to cash in on the compensation culture?

Let us not forget that Mr Saville was investigated by the police in 2007 and they found no evidence

I will repeat that, no evidence

If that is the case in an era when many were brought down, like Gary Glitter and others, how come the police found no evidence if there was a shred of truth these things happened.

Remember, Innocens nisi probetur nocens

And also when these allegations surface, you should ask as, Mr Saville is no longer with us and able to defend himself, "Cui Bono"

[Omah]

http://www.scotsman.com/news/scottis...vile-1-2568422

The community in Lochaber, adopted Highland home of Sir Jimmy Savile, has taken steps to sever links with the late star, in the wake of the sexual abuse claims made against him.

A hotel in Fort William has removed a plaque honouring Savile, and a marketing group have withdrawn an online video after it was the target of internet trolls, as allegations continue to mount against the broadcaster, who died in October 2011. Police are looking at 120 lines of inquiry, and investigating claims that the former Top of the Pops presenter abused as many as 30 girls, aged as young as 13.

The comedy video featured an interview with Savile, as well as sports personalities including stunt biker Danny MacAskill dressed up in tracksuits impersonating him, and had been hailed as a marketing coup for the area after going viral and receiving over 100,000 hits, prior to the scandal surrounding Savile. It was removed by the Outdoor Capital of the UK marketing group after becoming a target for abusive comments on YouTube over the past week, including one that referred to missing Welsh school girl April Jones.

The Fort William hotel has removed the sign on the door of its Jimmy Savile Suite, which had been named in his honour as it was the DJ’s room of choice when visiting, and are no longer referring to it by that name. A spokeswoman for owners Shearings Hotels said: “I think the removal speaks for itself so we won’t be making any comment.”

[Omah]

Originally Posted by Sticks

I have to declare an interest

I have personally met Mr Saville in the course of my duties when we were promoting In Town without your car day in 2003.

If any of these allegations were true, why were they not reported to the authorities when he was alive?

The way all these people are emerging out of the woodwork, when he is no longer around to defend himself seems suspicious. Could it be that some are seeking to cash in on the compensation culture?

Let us not forget that Mr Saville was investigated by the police in 2007 and they found no evidence

I will repeat that, no evidence

If that is the case in an era when many were brought down, like Gary Glitter and others, how come the police found no evidence if there was a shred of truth these things happened.

Remember, Innocens nisi probetur nocens

And also when these allegations surface, you should ask as, Mr Saville is no longer with us and able to defend himself, "Cui Bono"

I believe all of those issues have already been addressed in this thread, some very recently.

[Mrluvaluva]

Originally Posted by CherieB

You had to have been there. People in authority, doctors, policemen, teachers, christian brothers, clergymen, TV stars were all beyond reproach. Its not an excuse it was the way it was, the same way as single mothers were put into institutions in the 50s, nobody is saying it was right, maybe some people did speak out but their voices would have been shut down. Lets face it, these allegations were circulating in the 90s and even up to his death, nobody wanted to face the truth, even in this so called enlightened age.

I am quite aware that attitudes were different decades ago, towards things. The church, homosexuals, race etc, and that some people were so powerful, they could sway things in their favour, and things could be covered up if required. What I have not seen, is any evidence that anybody tried to do anything about the situation back then, with so many people aware of what was happening, and that's what I find hard to understand. And I am not talking about the victims here, I am talking about the people who were witnesses to these offences, and who did nothing.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Mrluvaluva

I am quite aware that attitudes were different decades ago, towards things. The church, homosexuals, race etc, and that some people were so powerful, they could sway things in their favour, and things could be covered up if required. What I have not seen, is any evidence that anybody tried to do anything about the situation back then, with so many people aware of what was happening, and that's what I find hard to understand. And I am not talking about the victims here, I am talking about the people who were witnesses to these offences, and who did nothing.

Look if his bosses at the BBC let him have free reign, Joanna Bloggs from Nowhere was hardly going to get a hearing. That girl in the childrens home reported him and was put in solitary confinement until she remembered differently, who knows who else reported him What we have heard so far is just the tip of the iceberg, I have no doubt in weeks to come we will hear about the people who spoke up but who were ignored.

[GiRTh]

Originally Posted by CherieB

[/B]

Look if his bosses at the BBC let him have free reign, Joanna Bloggs from Nowhere was hardly going to get a hearing. That girl in the childrens home reported him and was put in solitary confinement until she remembered differently, who knows who else reported him What we have heard so far is just the tip of the iceberg, I have no doubt in weeks to come we will hear about the people who spoke up but who were ignored.

This.

Back then women used to get touched up by their bosses knowing no one would listen if they complained. I dont think we can blame the people who knew. No one knows what kind of pressure they must have been under.

[Mrluvaluva]

Originally Posted by CherieB

[/B]

Look if his bosses at the BBC let him have free reign, Joanna Bloggs from Nowhere was hardly going to get a hearing. That girl in the childrens home reported him and was put in solitary confinement until she remembered differently, who knows who else reported him What we have heard so far is just the tip of the iceberg, I have no doubt in weeks to come we will hear about the people who spoke up but who were ignored.

That is the kind of attitudes I am talking about. I am referring to adults here though who witnessed such incidents, and could have done something, but chose to do nothing. It may have well been the case that any such allegations made may have been dismissed if reported, but at least an attempt had been made to do so.

It is of course possible that we will hear about such cases where people had tried to alert the authorities and their reports were not taken seriously or covered up, but I am airing my views about what we know so far and the facts in hand, and that is all I can comment upon.

Again I realise that people thought their complaints may not be taken seriously, and so did nothing, but this is now on such a big scale it seems incomprehensible that nothing was done with regards to protecting these minors from such predators.

[cassieparis]

Originally Posted by Mrluvaluva

That is the kind of attitudes I am talking about. I am referring to adults here though who witnessed such incidents, and could have done something, but chose to do nothing. It may have well been the case that any such allegations made may have been dismissed if reported, but at least an attempt had been made to do so.

It is of course possible that we will hear about such cases where people had tried to alert the authorities and their reports were not taken seriously or covered up, but I am airing my views about what we know so far and the facts in hand, and that is all I can comment upon.

Again I realise that people thought their complaints may not be taken seriously, and so did nothing, but this is now on such a big scale it seems incomprehensible that nothing was done with regards to protecting these minors from such predators.

The Catholic church is way bigger than Jimmy Savile or the BBC and paedophile priests have been ALLOWED to damage children without question for centuries.

Children are vulnerable. Predators "love" the vulnerable. Rarely are their interests perk around capable adults.

We need to get so much better at recognising predators while protecting and listening to children.

The culture of shaming abused people into silence through poor investigation rebuff devalue dismissal disbelief and incredulity just adds to the damage.

I also believe JS was reported many times since the 70s onwards. I am not a conspiracy theorist believer. However I do think that this case will die with JS being recognised as the demon he was. But if the case were truly and properly investigated it would rock the very foundations of British society.

[Mrluvaluva]

Originally Posted by cassieparis

The Catholic church is way bigger than Jimmy Savile or the BBC and paedophile priests have been ALLOWED to damage children without question for centuries.

Children are vulnerable. Predators "love" the vulnerable. Rarely are their interests perk around capable adults.

We need to get so much better at recognising predators while protecting and listening to children.

The culture of shaming abused people into silence through poor investigation rebuff devalue dismissal disbelief and incredulity just adds to the damage.

I also believe JS was reported many times since the 70s onwards. I am not a conspiracy theorist believer. However I do think that this case will die with JS being recognised as the demon he was. But if the case were truly and properly investigated it would rock the very foundations of British society.

I am not questioning this. As we now know, sexual abuse was allowed to run unchecked in the 60's, 70's, 80's and 90's in a number of institutions, schools, children’s homes, churches and now the BBC. That should not colour our response to it.

He may well be guilty, and that may be the case with a full investigation, and many people could possibly have tried to report it, as I have already mentioned, but there is no evidence of this at the moment that I have seen. My original post, and disdain, was for someone (an adult) who witnessed such a terrible incident, and did nothing, and now lives with that regret as I am sure many others do.

[Sam:)]

I heard it is freddie starr involved, not bruce

[Mrluvaluva]

Originally Posted by Sam:)

I heard it is freddie starr involved, not bruce

He has been named in an incident in relation to Jimmy Saville and is protesting his innocence. I think the post you are referring to concerns somebody else who's name is not in public circulation yet.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Sticks

I have to declare an interest

I have personally met Mr Saville in the course of my duties when we were promoting In Town without your car day in 2003.

If any of these allegations were true, why were they not reported to the authorities when he was alive?

The way all these people are emerging out of the woodwork, when he is no longer around to defend himself seems suspicious. Could it be that some are seeking to cash in on the compensation culture?

Let us not forget that Mr Saville was investigated by the police in 2007 and they found no evidence

I will repeat that, no evidence

If that is the case in an era when many were brought down, like Gary Glitter and others, how come the police found no evidence if there was a shred of truth these things happened.

Remember, Innocens nisi probetur nocens

And also when these allegations surface, you should ask as, Mr Saville is no longer with us and able to defend himself, "Cui Bono"

A very strong and thought provoking post.

[arista]

[cassieparis]

Originally Posted by Mrluvaluva

I am not questioning this. As we now know, sexual abuse was allowed to run unchecked in the 60's, 70's, 80's and 90's in a number of institutions, schools, children’s homes, churches and now the BBC. That should not colour our response to it.

He may well be guilty, and that may be the case with a full investigation, and many people could possibly have tried to report it, as I have already mentioned, but there is no evidence of this at the moment that I have seen. My original post, and disdain, was for someone (an adult) who witnessed such a terrible incident, and did nothing, and now lives with that regret as I am sure many others do.

I don't condone this phenomenon (adults who turn away when they witness abuse) but it is a known response.

Again I don't know why this happens but it does. I don't excuse it.
I would like to understand the motivation. I think it's fear. Terror. Individuals with emotional immaturity and under confidence. With minds that are unable to process horrors witnessed in the world.

Janet Street Porter told of the story of being hit by her mother when she reported that a hairdresser she had been left with molested her at 10 yrs old.

Too often you hear the story of mothers who continue to live with men who are abusing their children.

People who hear domestic abuse and don't call the police and other stories like this.

I think perhaps the witnesses can be victims of the abuse too. Especially if they too are dismissed when they report it or have a pending fear of dismissal.

These are excuses of course and adult witnesses should always report the abuse of children.

But I don't think being adult has anything to do with chronological age height and size but courage confidence emotional maturity and a real sense of the life changing damage that they had been witness.

[Omah]

Originally Posted by cassieparis

The Catholic church is way bigger than Jimmy Savile or the BBC and paedophile priests have been ALLOWED to damage children without question for centuries.

Children are vulnerable. Predators "love" the vulnerable. Rarely are their interests perk around capable adults.

We need to get so much better at recognising predators while protecting and listening to children.

The culture of shaming abused people into silence through poor investigation rebuff devalue dismissal disbelief and incredulity just adds to the damage.

I also believe JS was reported many times since the 70s onwards. I am not a conspiracy theorist believer. However I do think that this case will die with JS being recognised as the demon he was. But if the case were truly and properly investigated it would rock the very foundations of British society.

Absolutely .....

[erinp5]

I just read this!!!!
http://aangirfan.blogspot.co.uk/2012...-richards.html

[Omah]

Originally Posted by arista

I wonder what the text will be ?

[Mrluvaluva]

Originally Posted by cassieparis

I don't condone this phenomenon (adults who turn away when they witness abuse) but it is a known response.

Again I don't know why this happens but it does. I don't excuse it.
I would like to understand the motivation. I think it's fear. Terror. Individuals with emotional immaturity and under confidence. With minds that are unable to process horrors witnessed in the world.

Janet Street Porter told of the story of being hit by her mother when she reported that a hairdresser she had been left with molested her at 10 yrs old.

Too often you hear the story of mothers who continue to live with men who are abusing their children.

People who hear domestic abuse and don't call the police and other stories like this.

I think perhaps the witnesses can be victims of the abuse too. Especially if they too are dismissed when they report it or have a pending fear of dismissal.

These are excuses of course and adult witnesses should always report the abuse of children.

But I don't think being adult has anything to do with chronological age height and size but courage confidence emotional maturity and a real sense of the life changing damage that they had been witness.

The reasons I talk about the failure of adults is precisely for the reason that is mentioned in your post about Janet Street Porter. Children's reports are often disregarded and they are scolded for making things up. As mentioned again, children may be frightened, or possibly do not understand fully what has happened. I would expect an adults knowledge and understanding of right and wrong to be far more superior than that of a small child, and their allegations be taken far more seriously possibly. I realise that not everybody reacts in the same way, but I would have expected with the enormity of this case, that at the least an allegation or two were originally made against him. If none ever were, then that has contributed for the length of time this was allowed to go on unchallenged.

[Omah]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...l-at-will.html

A number of former patients have come forward claiming they were sexually abused by Savile, who had an office and a bedroom on the premises.

Nn Thursday a whistleblower told The Daily Telegraph that a senior manager at the trust had openly complained about Savile “touching up” nurses but said it was “tolerated” because of his fund-raising. Police have contacted the hospital in Buckinghamshire over allegations made by several women and at least one man that Savile molested them while they were patients there.

The Conservative MP Rob Wilson, who has led the calls for public bodies, including the BBC, to come clean over who knew what about Savile’s predatory activities, has written to bosses at the hospital demanding an investigation.

He said: “The scale of the allegations against Sir Jimmy Savile is quite staggering.

“I do not think what is alleged to have happened at Stoke Mandeville Hospital is acceptable in a decent society.

“If it is true, as alleged by ex-staff, that they were warned about Savile by hospital managers, they are complicit in the most disturbing of crimes.

“Some significant questions need to be answered. Such as why did it allow Jimmy Savile just to roam the hospital at will? Was it just because he raised money?

A former worker at the trust said a manager told him a decade ago that Savile was notorious for targeting nurses.

The source said: “I mentioned something about Savile and the manager said, 'Don’t talk to me about him. He’s an absolute nightmare.’

“It was tolerated and let go because of his fund-raising, so for Stoke Mandeville to say this is the first time they have heard anything about this is just wrong.”

The trust said it had been contacted by the Metropolitan Police this week and is supporting the Yard with its inquiries. But it said it was inappropriate to conduct its own inquiry while the police investigation was being carried out.

[Omah]

Shamed star's driver reveals all about abuse horror
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news...driver-1373895

Jimmy Savile’s former driver has revealed the TV star turned his mobile home into a sordid sex lair where he abused a string of *children as he toured Britain.

Dennis Garbutt said the paedophile presenter lured vulnerable girls as young as 12 into the vehicle during fundraising events at hospitals.

Dennis told his wife Lucy how the presenter would give him a signal to leave the mobile home so he could pounce on his young victims.

Lucy said: “Savile would say to him, ‘Go and get a cup of tea, Den’ and that was his way of saying he wanted to be alone and it was obvious why.

"Den would then go to the pictures or just walk the streets for a while.

“Den knew what was going on and we regret not doing anything about it at the time. He said Savile would have girls wherever he went.

"I couldn’t say how many, it was all over the country every time they stopped.

“He said, ‘These girls are barely older than our daughter, who was 12 at the time.’ It happened at the Leeds General Infirmary, at Broadmoor and in London.

"When he stopped he would have young girls. We both feel bad that we never said anything to the police, we’re as bad as all the others for not coming forward.

"I really regret it now but Den always said he had nothing to prove it, he just knew what was going on.”

Lucy, 78, told how Dennis – who now suffers from dementia – finally got sick of Savile’s vile behaviour and quit after 12 months.

She added: “Den could only stand working for him for a year and then he said to me, ‘I can’t bear it anymore. I don’t agree with it’.”

Dennis worked for Savile in 1971, driving his first mobile home.

After *fundraising, the Jim’ll Fix It host regularly invited *teenagers to join him on the mattress installed in the back of his lair.

A number of women have come forward in the past week and described being attacked in the vehicle he called his caravan.

While visiting London to appear on Top of the Pops in 1971, Savile kept it in a car park behind a rubbish tip in the red light district around Kings Cross.

After showing off the vehicle that same year, he said in a Mirror interview: “I tramp around the country like a grey timber wolf.

“I’m a wild animal, aware of the world and its surroundings and aware of my own needs.

"Look, a guy can stand on stage with a bolt through his head and because he’s in showbiz someone will fancy him.

“It’s a fact that girls fall for me and well, I’m single and I’m normal, and I get my fair share.”

But Lucy told how Savile would be two-faced when it came to his fans, slagging them off behind their backs.

Speaking from the home she shares with Dennis in Harrogate, North Yorks, she added: “To be honest, I never did like him.

"When he was signing autographs he would be smiling at his fans and then saying under his breath, ‘Just look at this so-and-so.’ All the time he would keep on smiling at them.”

[Omah]

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage...#ixzz292ivwQsp

A WOMAN has told how twisted Jimmy Savile posed with her for a Polaroid snap in front of her school when she was 14 — moments before whisking her away in his gold Rolls-Royce to sexually abuse her.

She said the pervert even signed the back of the photo, writing: “Just off!!! (1/2 a chance!!!)” — but it wasn’t until after her terrifying ordeal that she realised the words had been a statement of his depraved intent.

Now a 53-year-old mother of two — who we are not identifying — she has kept what happened in 1974 from her husband and two daughters, but agreed to show us the image. She said: “I’m smiling because I felt safe. He was a star.

“Less than half an hour later he pulled over in a layby and got me on the back seat.

“He was drooling and got his hands on to my breasts then in my knickers.”

She went on: “He drove me back to school as if nothing had happened. At least four other girls told me he abused them or tried to abuse them.

“I tried speaking out before but nobody was interested. It was the word of girls from a school for problem kids against the great Jimmy Savile.

“I was pleased when I saw his gravestone was smashed to bits — he smashed my life to bits.”

Certainly 10s, maybe 100s, even 1000s of young lives "smashed to bits" by Sex-fiend Savile .....

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Mrluvaluva

I am not questioning this. As we now know, sexual abuse was allowed to run unchecked in the 60's, 70's, 80's and 90's in a number of institutions, schools, children’s homes, churches and now the BBC. That should not colour our response to it.

He may well be guilty, and that may be the case with a full investigation, and many people could possibly have tried to report it, as I have already mentioned, but there is no evidence of this at the moment that I have seen. My original post, and disdain, was for someone (an adult) who witnessed such a terrible incident, and did nothing, and now lives with that regret as I am sure many others do.

Ex Policeman interviewed on BBC News last night reported to it to his superiors after receiving a complaint from a Nurse at one of the Hospitals and it was brushed aside. I feel sure there were many complaints, there just had to be with the number of allegations against him.

[Omah]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-19915975

A woman has claimed Sir Jimmy Savile abused a young girl during a visit to a children's home in West Yorkshire.

The woman, who does not wish to be named, told BBC Radio Leeds the incident happened at a council-run home she stayed at in Leeds in the 1970s.

She said the 12-year-old victim told her Savile indecently touched her after they went upstairs together.

Leeds Safeguarding Children Board said it had not, to its knowledge, received any complaints about Savile.

The woman said the woman in charge of the care home "was uncomfortable" about Savile but a new member of staff allowed him to visit.

She said he sat in the dining room with the children before taking the 12-year-old upstairs to the bedrooms.

She said when the woman in charge realised what had happened she "ran upstairs and found him".

"You could hear it, there were raised voices from the staff room and then she just ran upstairs," the woman said.

She said Savile was told to leave and banned from further visits.

"A social worker came down," she said, "and basically he came back the next day and said it would be his word against Jimmy Savile and it would be unfair to put a girl through the procedure of a police investigation that probably will end in nothing and ruin a man's career."

In a statement Jane Held, independent chairwoman of the Leeds Safeguarding Children Board, said it shared concerns being expressed nationally about Savile.

She said: "We have not to the best of our knowledge received any complaints or allegations about Jimmy Savile, but if any now come to light we will co-operate fully with any police investigation.

"Once any police investigation is completed we will conduct a rigorous review with all our partners of any information relating to Leeds residents. We would encourage anyone who has got information or concerns to report them."

[arista]

BBC: Guilty