[the truth]

Clem V Thatcher

NO STATE FUNERAL STATE FUNERAL(in all but name)

Rebuilt britain after world war 2 V Record levels of unemployment
(3.5 million)

Created the NHS V Closed record number of hospitals

Achieved full employment V British manufacturing capacity halved, ended 700
years of coal mining , destroyed steel and copper
production etc

Built 1 million new homes V Depleted housing stock by 68%

Built over 1000 new schools V Closed 100s of schools

Employed 25000 new teachers V Deregulated financial sector

Ended the exploitation of workers V Increased VAT from 8% to 17.5%
in many industries through fair- V Supported apartheid regine in S africa
wage and employment conditions V Called Mandela a grubby little terrorist
legislation V Harboured Chilean fascist dictator
Picochet

Introduced-child benefit, invalidity V Abolished free milk for primary school
children
Benefit, social security, sickness, V Covered up police's role in Hillsborough
maternity pay V Biggest transfer of wealth from poor to
rich in british history

[Jack_]

Yesterday's affair was nothing more than a party political broadcast for Thatcherism and anybody that tries to argue any different is wasting their time. The funeral of an old lady was hijacked for political purposes by David Cameron and that in itself is just as disrespectful as those who turned up, quite unsurprisingly seeing as they'd been provoked into doing so, to demonstrate and protest against this is disgusting £10 million waste of tax payers money, especially when she didn't even request that.

The moment it was proven it was nothing more than a political broadcast for the Tories and everything she stood for was when Cameron said 'we're all Thatcherites now'. Nice try Dave, but I think you'll find a lot of us aren't and can see straight through your pathetically disrespectful attempt at trying to gloss over your recent policies and using this funeral to promote and endorse your party's politics.

I'm going against my better judgment, and defending Cameron here. The "we're all Thatcherites" quote is obviously a play on the Friedman quote of "we're all Keynsians now".

Unfortunately for Cameron, Keynsian economics has been proved to be the best way of moving an economy, whereas Thatcherism, and I'll be kind, isn't.

Basically, he's saying "you're ll ******ed - we're sticking to tax breaks for the rich, and closing services for the poor".

It's just a clever way of saying you're doing what I say, and we're sticking to it.

[Omah]

This is turning into a "Cameron" thread .....

[the truth]

it was one of the most nauseating distateful events ive ever seen.....not even the magnificence of the surroundings alter that........it was also the least moving funeral Ive ever witnessed. mainly because as you say it seemed to have been a politically hijacked event. there was nothing personal about it.

[joeysteele]

I agree that this will be seen as a politically hijacked funeral by David Cameron and his Govt, it is the most sickening aspect to it really along with the taxpayers funding of it plus the Queens attendance.

The opening post states, Clem Attlee v Maggie Thatcher.
For me, no contest, Clem Attlee had to begin to restore the UK after the World War 2, his achievements as to that should not be forgotten,the job fell to him and he rose to it.

Although he was beaten in the 1951 general election, little consolation to him but he went out on 1951 still getting the largest number of votes in that election, narrowly,less than 1% in it but a good record to be proud of.

[the truth]

obviously different politicians for different times......however when u consider what clem did in a recession compared to what camerons doing in a recession, it doesnt compare

the trouble is none of these people offer a fair balance.........thatcher imho was psychotic.......blair ended up even worse......but the rest on the whole had at least some balance......

as it stands I do think labour let the welfare dependency get out of control, but in reality much of that was caused by the destruction of industry and jobs for younger people under thatcher........but blair did absolutely nothing to turn that around, he was the worst of all time

[joeysteele]

I also think, wrongly as some people tell me, that Tony Blair was alwayss earching for a defining moment of his premiership.
He wanted some really great event to make him stand out, he thought he had got it too in my view with Iraq,in a way he did but not as to the positive and personally grand way he hoped for.

For me, reading through his time in Govt, he could have done so much not only for those who had supported the party through many x years, he could have really changed so much in the UK too however, for me, he squandered 2 of the best overall majorities ever given to a party,in 1997 and 2001.

No one could accuse Margaret Thatcher or Clem Attlee as being afraid to set out and change the UK,unlike as to Tony Blair and his totally daft 'new' Labour title for the party.

[Nedusa]

For me, it was a non event, merely a distraction from the normal scheduling. I admit I did watch a few minutes to see if there were any major disruptions, and I agree with the earlier posts inasmuch as it did not feel like a funeral in any sense of the word. It felt very sterile like a pointless rehersed political staged event, a chance for the luvvies to wear their best frocks and be seen on TV.

This was Cameron's free air time and to see his Chancellor weeping as he spoke about Thatcher made me reach for the vomit bag...!!!

[Shaun]

attlee is probably the greatest PM of the 20th century

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Shaun

attlee is probably the greatest PM of the 20th century

Id go with lloyd george, but atlee second and churchill third (he did after all defeat the nazis but made a lot of mistakes as a politician)

[Shaun]

Oh true, forgot David. Hmm. I'm not sure now

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Nedusa

For me, it was a non event, merely a distraction from the normal scheduling. I admit I did watch a few minutes to see if there were any major disruptions, and I agree with the earlier posts inasmuch as it did not feel like a funeral in any sense of the word. It felt very sterile like a pointless rehersed political staged event, a chance for the luvvies to wear their best frocks and be seen on TV.

This was Cameron's free air time and to see his Chancellor weeping as he spoke about Thatcher made me reach for the vomit bag...!!!

Good post Nedusa.
Actually for me, the most serene and thought provoking moment of all of yesterday's event was when I was watching sky news later in the day and it had Margaret Thatcher's last journey to her Cremation.

The small number of motorcyclist escort, the hearse and the family in a few cars behind,going down largely clear roads made you actually think a bit as to the family and where they were heading, for me, I was able to watch that with more feeling than for the pomp of the earlier event.

As for the Chancellor weeping, I will care more about him and that if he does so for the people he is helping make suffer with his disastrous and now clearly failed but also discredited policies.

[the truth]

If u have an hour or so spare, well worth a look at the 1 hour documentaries on these 2 titans of british politics...a time when achievement was valued more than mere recognition and superficial tv images

and lloyd georges peoples budget 1909
(11 minutes)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZHNrKVTyY6U

clem atlee 2 hour documentary
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zakZFbLjGsk