[booboomartin]

Originally Posted by Brother Leon

Christopher is really likable tbf. I still don't get how Chris or Ashleigh are considered "Nice" though

i agree with you. i think christopher can be a bit annoying, but on the whole he is a decent bloke. ashleigh however is a spoilt, petulant brat who needs to look at herself a bit more closely. she goes on about helen, but at least helen will say things to your face, unlike miss prissy, who can only run to the diary room to complain and swear her head off. creepy chris is a lousy actor (perhaps thats why he cannot get a job) he pretends to like ashleigh in a 'friend' way. sorry, don't think so, and neither did her boyfriend when he was spoken to, in a telephone call in BBOTS. creepy and dishonest.

[booboomartin]

Originally Posted by Achilles

We see 6% of what happens in the house per day. I don't base my opinion on the BB edit. Ashleigh was thrown in a house with a bully and that bully had a gang. She has only just left school where she was the victim of bullying. If you were Ashleigh how would YOU cope? I will never support a bully and never hate a girl who stands up against bullies.

if you do not support a bully, why are you supporting ashleigh. have you forgotton how she had a go at christopher. your princess prissy is a user (danielle and Chris), potty mouthed, has temper tantrums and is an all round two faced little cow (i am being very polite)

[jjj2]

This is the Old " I used to love Ashleigh but now i love Helen " tactic , be honest OP you were always a Helen fan . Ashleigh FTW

[billy123]

A lot of people are really getting behind Helen now on twitter its getting pretty crazy.
Littlemix posted a helen to win tweet that has now been favourited and retweeted over 5000 times.
The tide is changing. I dont think it will be enough but its interesting to see.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by bobnot

A lot of people are really getting behind Helen now on twitter its getting pretty crazy.
Littlemix posted a helen to win tweet that has now been favourited and retweeted over 5000 times.
The tide is changing. I dont think it will be enough but its interesting to see.

I hate twitter but that is rather good to hear bobnot,anything can happen now it is only the supporters of each housemate actually voting for them.

It is easy to orchestrate a get someone out vote when there are a good number of housemates up voting to evict but to stop someone winning,that is much harder to achieve.

[booboomartin]

Originally Posted by mrflibble

So do I I don't know what's so bad about being 'closed off', but maybe that's because that's how I am. I am extremely introverted, I love being alone and I only like having a small, close group of friends. So I find the Chris/Christopher/Ashleigh group very real, honest and relatable for me.

Whereas I feel Helen's manipulative with her 'good' side, lacks self-awareness and a filter, and is just plain nasty. I don't feel that it's good that she voices every single thought that pops into her head and is completely predictable because that means she has no ability or will to change her bad traits, doesn't care if she hurts other people and never reflects on anything she does. Just because we 100% know she is a nasty, aggressive and loud person doesn't mean we should like her for it.

It's a very difficult thing to show restraint and remain polite and cordial with people you don't like and keep a level-head when things aren't going your way and when people show these qualities I consider them a strong person and someone who I would say I liked. Helen shows none of these and Chris/Christopher/Ashleigh have (to different extents). The Ashleigh crew also demonstrate a lot of intelligence and thought, unlike the Helen crew.

asleigh is also a nasty, aggresive and loud person. the difference between her and helen is, that helen will say what she thinks to your face. ashleigh however will only say what she wants to certain people eg: having a go at christopher, but with others (helen) she has to rush to the diary room and swear her head off there. helen always reflects on what she has said, and will admit it if she thinks she is wrong. ashleigh on the other hand never thinks she is wrong. i cannot see where you say that ashleigh is able to show restraint, and remain polite when things are not going her way. are we both watching the same show?, miss prissy has thrown her toys out of her pram so many times i have lost count. as for showing intelligence, i think that ashleigh is very clever at manipulating the situation. she only has christopher on her side because mark has gone. chris is with her because he 'likes' her,but would like more, and thinks that there is going to be a big friendship between him, ashleigh and her boyfriend. i don't think her boyfriend is into threesomes, so she will drop him like a stone when this series is over. christopher is week, but on the whole a decent bloke. of those three i would only have christopher in the final

[mrflibble]

Originally Posted by booboomartin

asleigh is also a nasty, aggresive and loud person. the difference between her and helen is, that helen will say what she thinks to your face. ashleigh however will only say what she wants to certain people eg: having a go at christopher, but with others (helen) she has to rush to the diary room and swear her head off there. helen always reflects on what she has said, and will admit it if she thinks she is wrong. ashleigh on the other hand never thinks she is wrong. i cannot see where you say that ashleigh is able to show restraint, and remain polite when things are not going her way. are we both watching the same show?, miss prissy has thrown her toys out of her pram so many times i have lost count. as for showing intelligence, i think that ashleigh is very clever at manipulating the situation. she only has christopher on her side because mark has gone. chris is with her because he 'likes' her,but would like more, and thinks that there is going to be a big friendship between him, ashleigh and her boyfriend. i don't think her boyfriend is into threesomes, so she will drop him like a stone when this series is over. christopher is week, but on the whole a decent bloke. of those three i would only have christopher in the final

I disagree with most of that, though I did say they had all shown restraint and politeness to different extents, Ashleigh has got fed up a number of times. Helen saying 'oh that was wrong' is not Helen reflecting - to reflect means to realise what you've done that is wrong and to take steps to change it. She knows what she's doing is wrong and she says that for everyone else's sake - but she doesn't care. And as I said in my post, it's not necessary to tell everyone everything you think about them as you think it. Ashleigh stops herself most of the time and goes to vent in private, which is a much nicer way of dealing with issues. Someone like Helen will not accept criticism and will not listen to someone else telling her she is wrong (which is also why she'll say 'that was wrong of me', so people think she's learned from her mistakes, but continuously makes the same mistakes).

Helen is also the instigator for 90% of the problems in that house, and when someone is as aggressive and nasty as she is, it's very difficult to do anything in that confined space. Ashleigh has not been aggressive towards Helen, she's been defensive and stood her ground. She has said nasty things but who hasn't against someone who's treated you like Helen has treated her? And loud, well she has to be to get a word in. I've compared Helen before to an injured animal that just growls and bites at everyone who comes near it and that's all she will be until she realises how her actions affect others. Whereas Ashleigh's the animal that's had enough of being mistreated and fights back.

[sungrass]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I think the unfortunate truth is that they're all pretty awful people... As I think, unfortunately, only certain types of person go for a place in BB now.

The most ironic thing about the Helen / Ashleigh split is that they have EXACTLY the same personality type. Give Ashleigh a baby and have her turn to prostitution, fast forward 10 years, dye her hair and... That's Helen. Helen is an older, jaded, and yet more down to earth Ashleigh.

Neither of them are good people.

The only half "decent" person in there is actually Ash. He's literally the ONLY one I've seen much genuine emotion from over the entire series: be that having fun and laughing about things that everyone else is getting worked up about, or the way that he was visibly gutted when he realised Winston was really gone - with no ulterior motive. Just genuinely sad about it. He also is the only one who seems to be genuinely happy when they're all getting along, and disappointed when it falls apart... And was the only one of ash/helen/Winston who was even vaguely remorseful about the breakout thing.

Basically he seems like a normal, friendly guy who went there to have a laugh but got sucked into a very negative series. Even as recently as last week he seemed genuinely keen for everyone to get along, when the rest were just paying lip service, and were simply looking for an excuse to end the ceasefire... Because they're happier sniping at each other. All of them.

And yet, I don't think he'd be a "worthy" winner... Because he's simply not been strong enough a character.

That is the most insightful comment I have read on here.

I see all of the same things - I wonder if it takes someone over the age of say 25 to see what Ashleigh is likely to turn into one day? Of course she is not worried about money right now - - she has never had to really take care of herself independently or anyone else. Thats not her fault its just her age.

But she can bitch - yet never really to anyone's face. She has done nothing to deserve all this "fan boy" rubbish - nothing amazing at all- she has not really comforted or cared for anyone- i really do not get it - just being Helens enemy shouldn't make her a winner- she hardly stopped Helen or taught Helen anything - what a waste of time- but maybe the viewers who are her age relate to her?? and her being the same age as them is enough for them to go over the top supporting her. She really is just very 'meh'

And it is really hard to 'like' any of them. The 'power' theme was so negative this year.

[sungrass]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

I hate twitter but that is rather good to hear bobnot,anything can happen now it is only the supporters of each housemate actually voting for them.

It is easy to orchestrate a get someone out vote when there are a good number of housemates up voting to evict but to stop someone winning,that is much harder to achieve.

I do think at the moment I am going to support Helen. Which is just crazy. I went of Chris when he said he would take the money. A pact is a pact in my eyes. Christopher is a phony.

There is opportunity for a character like Helen to grow and heal and develop into a better one. Even Chris spotted it.
She has made the show.

Ashleigh did not 'effect' the matter. She was too weak to ever really do anything but sit around in corners with Danielle. She did not entertain at all. She did not fight back. She did absolutely nothing!

[sungrass]

Originally Posted by booboomartin

if you do not support a bully, why are you supporting ashleigh. have you forgotton how she had a go at christopher. your princess prissy is a user (danielle and Chris), potty mouthed, has temper tantrums and is an all round two faced little cow (i am being very polite)

True

[Jules2]

Originally Posted by MarcusMel

I feel sorry for Helen and her abysmal lack of self worth and her wish to attack anybody who challenges any respect she feels she has for herself.

Ashleigh, seems to have too much undeserved self-respect and can't seem to let herself relax or be around with those that don't give her the respect she demands of them.

Ash, I don't see him as being nice. I still remember the look he had when up for eviction in the first week. It was a look that I felt could kill and still sends a shiver to my soul. If Ash doesn't like you, then life would be having every stupid thing you did mentioned over and over to drive you into anger and misery.

Christopher, Suspect that his energy and enthusiasm are like a dog greeting its master, overwhelming bounce and happiness, it is all too much of a good thing and very tiring to live with.

Pav, seems like someone who is swimming outside their comfort zone and trying to come to terms with a new situation. Did they show him during the 'finalist' task?

Chris :- Doubt anybody can get close to understanding him. See and analyses the world about him but can't communicate or more to the point be appreciated for the way he perceives the world. Probably the most misunderstood person of this BB series.

Re Chris, I have understood him from day one, when he went in I thought no. I looked at Ash and thought yes! How wrong was I. The only good thing about Ash is his looks but the best thing about Chris is his understanding of a situation. His knowledge of the pen and how to put an impression onto paper. His readiness to take himself to task if he thinks he has done something wrong and his gratitude at something being pointed out to him via the media.

Sadly his realisation that his impressions were right in the first place puts him straight back to the first weeks in the house. We have to congratulate him though for trying to discover the good in everyone in the knowledge that there is something somewere along the line. Some we have to dig deeper with than others. Some the good is only shown with those who they think will grovel to them but, Chris is his own person and he knows that he is a force unto himself. He is great! He will go far and deserves the recognition that he is a great artist.

[sungrass]

Originally Posted by Ammi

..I agree that an attack one physical appearance is the lowest...and I don't recall Helen doing so as such with Helen but (I think) that Helen has made some remarks about Ashleigh's 'face' in terms of the expressions etc she pulls but I may be wrong about that but if I recall the whole DR rant with Ashleigh, she said she was ugly when she went off on one type thing..?..I'm not saying that's right but its a more general thing said in anger rather than some of the specifics that have been said about other housemates and some by Helen herself as well as others...also I think the 'lowest' for me is specifics that would obviously be sensitive to someone like Ashleigh's acne which has been referred to so many times on here and elsewhere on social sites...its picking at a 'weakness/sensitivity' in with someone, no better than if it were a disability....

She doesn't seem to have acne - she has clear perfect skin. Pretty low if people have taken the mick out of that.
I think she may have done modelling for freederm or something? I don't know

[HBB1508]

Originally Posted by Jules2

Re Chris, I have understood him from day one, when he went in I thought no. I looked at Ash and thought yes! How wrong was I. The only good thing about Ash is his looks but the best thing about Chris is his understanding of a situation. His knowledge of the pen and how to put an impression onto paper. His readiness to take himself to task if he thinks he has done something wrong and his gratitude at something being pointed out to him via the media.

Sadly his realisation that his impressions were right in the first place puts him straight back to the first weeks in the house. We have to congratulate him though for trying to discover the good in everyone in the knowledge that there is something somewere along the line. Some we have to dig deeper with than others. Some the good is only shown with those who they think will grovel to them but, Chris is his own person and he knows that he is a force unto himself. He is great! He will go far and deserves the recognition that he is a great artist.

[Lstan]

Originally Posted by toronto_matt

someone really has to help me with this, i started off LOVING chris and christopher from the start and throughout most of the series

ashleigh, i was always so so on, especially during her month long hiding in corners with danielle moaning and snickering stage but i never actually "disliked" her

and helen, my god, i despised her, i could not stand her! i honestly thought there was no way i could dislike a housemate ever again as much as i did her BUT

something happened, dont ask me what, there just came a point where i realized chris, christopher and ashligh started to really get to me and i found myself while not "liking" helen per say, but i started to understand her more and slowly but surely, the tables completely flipped and i found myself pro helen!

its madness i know..

i know there are alot of hardcore helen fans out there that have loved her from the start, but is there anyone else that started off absolutely despising the woman to now wanting her to win? i mean, i cant be the only one.. can i?

Just wanted to say although those 3 are my favourite i understand if people dont feel the same way because everyone has their own opinion and i know many people have strong opinions on here but i see the plus and negative points of each housemate because everyone has good/bad points to them.

[Allegra]

Originally Posted by toronto_matt

someone really has to help me with this, i started off LOVING chris and christopher from the start and throughout most of the series

ashleigh, i was always so so on, especially during her month long hiding in corners with danielle moaning and snickering stage but i never actually "disliked" her

and helen, my god, i despised her, i could not stand her! i honestly thought there was no way i could dislike a housemate ever again as much as i did her BUT

something happened, dont ask me what, there just came a point where i realized chris, christopher and ashligh started to really get to me and i found myself while not "liking" helen per say, but i started to understand her more and slowly but surely, the tables completely flipped and i found myself pro helen!

its madness i know..

i know there are alot of hardcore helen fans out there that have loved her from the start, but is there anyone else that started off absolutely despising the woman to now wanting her to win? i mean, i cant be the only one.. can i?

There has been much hype about Helen and her 'journey'. Even the so-called analysts on BBBOTS are not allowed to speak freely e.g. pointing to obvious personality disorders, when evidently present. Helen is a classic NPD (so is Pauline, Toya, Steven and Mark, to a lesser extent) any change in her behaviour is a mere environmental adjustment for the sole purpose of obtaining/regaining favour from her surroundings. She is, and always has been (since a very young age), void of any true sense of self. A person such as this is incapable of change. For Helen the diary room serves only as a self-validation tool. Anything that people hear her saying is mere game play. Throughout the show we have seen her continuously colliding with her fellow housemates - this enables her to trigger a response, enabling her to 'feel'. These confrontations provide her with endless opportunities to vent her anger and aggression. Praise=validation, Criticism= attack.

For professionals, Helen's behavioural patterns suggest a pathology which is deeply disturbing. Therapy will often not work, leaving people like this to roam the world, inflicting damage wherever they go. Deeply wounded from early childhood, they remain the most toxic people anyone will ever meet!

I hope that this 'warming' sensation is a mere projection - in which case, it is perfectly understandable. A real character assessment of Helen, however, will never arrive anywhere warm.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Allegra

There has been much hype about Helen and her 'journey'. Even the so-called analysts on BBBOTS are not allowed to speak freely e.g. pointing to obvious personality disorders, when evidently present. Helen is a classic NPD (so is Pauline, Toya, Steven and Mark, to a lesser extent) any change in her behaviour is a mere environmental adjustment for the sole purpose of obtaining/regaining favour from her surroundings. She is, and always has been (since a very young age), void of any true sense of self. A person such as this is incapable of change. For Helen the diary room serves only as a self-validation tool. Anything that people hear her saying is mere game play. Throughout the show we have seen her continuously colliding with her fellow housemates - this enables her to trigger a response, enabling her to 'feel'. These confrontations provide her with endless opportunities to vent her anger and aggression. Praise=validation, Criticism= attack.

For professionals, Helen's behavioural patterns suggest a pathology which is deeply disturbing. Therapy will often not work, leaving people like this to roam the world, inflicting damage wherever they go. Deeply wounded from early childhood, they remain the most toxic people anyone will ever meet!

I hope that this 'warming' sensation is a mere projection - in which case, it is perfectly understandable. A real character assessment of Helen, however, will never arrive anywhere warm.

Post of the thread IMO.

There's only one word to describe Helen, and that is "broken". I honestly believe that people are just desperate to believe that she has changed, or can change, or that they've seen a different side to her... That this can be a redemption storyline.

In truth, like all of the world's Helens, she does have moments where she "sees herself" and doesn't like it, and fleetingly makes a conscious effort to be different, and people mistakenly believe that to be change. Unfortunately that sort of broken personality is completely driven by the subconscious and she will ALWAYS snap back to her original state as soon as her concentration breaks. She's a human memory foam mattress. She won't, and can't, ever change.

I also fear that it's inevitable that anything more we hear of Helen Wood beyond big brother will be all negative.

[Miranda123]

Originally Posted by toronto_matt

someone really has to help me with this, i started off LOVING chris and christopher from the start and throughout most of the series

ashleigh, i was always so so on, especially during her month long hiding in corners with danielle moaning and snickering stage but i never actually "disliked" her

and helen, my god, i despised her, i could not stand her! i honestly thought there was no way i could dislike a housemate ever again as much as i did her BUT

something happened, dont ask me what, there just came a point where i realized chris, christopher and ashligh started to really get to me and i found myself while not "liking" helen per say, but i started to understand her more and slowly but surely, the tables completely flipped and i found myself pro helen!

its madness i know..

i know there are alot of hardcore helen fans out there that have loved her from the start, but is there anyone else that started off absolutely despising the woman to now wanting her to win? i mean, i cant be the only one.. can i?

I was exactly the same!

hated Helen in the first few weeks, loved Chris, felt sorry for Christopher cause he was being incessantly bullied by Pauline & Toya, I didnt at that point, notice the little blond thing hiding under Paulines apron so I had no feelings either way about Ashleigh
As time went on, and Toyas face was being shown on screen more than any of us had the stomach to put up with, I started loving Helen & the cool gang cause they were the only people having any fun, the rest were too caught up in the hate thing
I noticed the little blonde thing for the first time cause it opened its mouth and spoke to Toya about wanting to smash Danielles face in for daring to talk to Kim, that was when I first noticed her
the rest is just a blur of her slagging off Helen & Ash, and even Winston (til he stood up for her) and brushing her hair..................er.....thats it

Helen To WIN!!!

[Miranda123]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Post of the thread IMO.

There's only one word to describe Helen, and that is "broken". I honestly believe that people are just desperate to believe that she has changed, or can change, or that they've seen a different side to her... That this can be a redemption storyline.

In truth, like all of the world's Helens, she does have moments where she "sees herself" and doesn't like it, and fleetingly makes a conscious effort to be different, and people mistakenly believe that to be change. Unfortunately that sort of broken personality is completely driven by the subconscious and she will ALWAYS snap back to her original state as soon as her concentration breaks. She's a human memory foam mattress. She won't, and can't, ever change.

I also fear that it's inevitable that anything more we hear of Helen Wood beyond big brother will be all negative.

Too long to read.......HELEN TO WIN!!

[sungrass]

Originally Posted by Allegra

There has been much hype about Helen and her 'journey'. Even the so-called analysts on BBBOTS are not allowed to speak freely e.g. pointing to obvious personality disorders, when evidently present. Helen is a classic NPD (so is Pauline, Toya, Steven and Mark, to a lesser extent) any change in her behaviour is a mere environmental adjustment for the sole purpose of obtaining/regaining favour from her surroundings. She is, and always has been (since a very young age), void of any true sense of self. A person such as this is incapable of change. For Helen the diary room serves only as a self-validation tool. Anything that people hear her saying is mere game play. Throughout the show we have seen her continuously colliding with her fellow housemates - this enables her to trigger a response, enabling her to 'feel'. These confrontations provide her with endless opportunities to vent her anger and aggression. Praise=validation, Criticism= attack.

For professionals, Helen's behavioural patterns suggest a pathology which is deeply disturbing. Therapy will often not work, leaving people like this to roam the world, inflicting damage wherever they go. Deeply wounded from early childhood, they remain the most toxic people anyone will ever meet!

I hope that this 'warming' sensation is a mere projection - in which case, it is perfectly understandable. A real character assessment of Helen, however, will never arrive anywhere warm.

Its become very common at the moment to diagnose personality disorders at ease. In truth NPD is really very rare. In the way you have mentioned it - yes Helen has some traits of NPD but everyone person does though! She has traits not the condition.

Helen is not devoid of empathy nor does she use people for her own gain in a manipulative fashion. If she does not like someone - they know it. Even to her own detriment. Not NPD. NPD's are often characterised as "a wolf in sheeps clothing" Their self image is their preoccupation they NEED to be admired, seen as perfect. Helen has not done this. She knows and accepts she is not liked.

She genuinely would have the split the money. Her word is important to her. That is her value. A true NPD only has self advancement as a value - this means PRETENDING to be caring to get the top.

She talks HONESTLY. This means she is not Machiavellian, which is a significant trait in true NPD.

She has traits of NPD but anyone who enters a house to be watched 24/7 by cameras and the country does.

I the whole personality disorder spectrum has been taken way out of hand, people are over diagnosing it. And by the way the psychotherapists have mentioned narcissism in the past. I personally think due to his delusions of grandeur it is Steven that was the most NPD of the lot.

[Daffodil]

Originally Posted by Brother Leon

Christopher is really likable tbf. I still don't get how Chris or Ashleigh are considered "Nice" though

Agree wholeheartedly.

[jessicadanielle]

Originally Posted by booboomartin

if you do not support a bully, why are you supporting ashleigh. have you forgotton how she had a go at christopher. your princess prissy is a user (danielle and Chris), potty mouthed, has temper tantrums and is an all round two faced little cow (i am being very polite)

None of these characteristics of Ashleigh amount to a bully. Having a go at Christopher one time is not bullying. Helen's, Pauline's, and maybe even Toya and Tamara's treatment of Christopher and Jale at the beginning of the series was relentless and malicious and intended to make them feel isolated. That was bullying. Ashleigh shouted at Christopher once because she was in a pissy mood. Not saying it was right of Ashleigh to shout at Christopher for nothing, but that was not bullying.