[Headie]

Borneo is great

[Headie]

Originally Posted by Raph

Which season has the best asian chick to stan? I've only seen one season before and I stanned Edna

Peih Gee (S15) or Christina (S24)

Also brown asians, then Natalie (S29)

[SoBig]

Natalie Anderson is by far the best.

[Firewire]

Originally Posted by Hayden

Borneo is great

I'm liking it so far, the challenges are so easy though

[Macie Lightfoot]

tbh I much prefer the variety in the early season's Challenges than the modern day's endless variations on "collect all the puzzle pieces and complete the puzzle" and "do this endurance thing for as long as possible." Bring back fallen comrades and hands on the idol and SOS signals <3

[VanessaFeltz.]

Kelly was a queen

[Firewire]

I finished. Took longer than I'd hoped but had a lot on. It's such a different show to how it is now. Sue went hard on Kelly at the end

[Headie]

Snakes and Rats speech >>>

[Firewire]

Poor Kel didn't see it coming

[Firewire]

Rich was such an underwhelming winner though

[swinearefine]

Richard pioneered strategy and alliances from day 1 in Borneo and rightfully won and earned his spot as a legend. He seems to kind of suck in real life based on social media stuff but idk either way there's no way his win can be seen as underwhelming if you look at it in the context of the first big competitive reality show on US TV and his approach versus Kelly's. If Kelly had won, Survivor would have been so much different, as the alliance-forming and decetion wouldn't have been seen as near as advantageous for future contestants.

[Macie Lightfoot]

Yeah, on a personal level I much prefer Kelly but reality TV is still to this day a reaction to Richard winning.

[Firewire]

I guess you're right. I didn't agree with Kelly's speech when she said "vote for the better person" because it's about the game which Rich played

[Macie Lightfoot]

It really wasn't about the game back then though! I know that's weird to hear in 2015 and it's definitely hard to mentally put yourself in that Y2K timeframe, but in 2000 the premise of the show was literally "let's put 16 people from all different walks of life on an island and see what happens." Kelly was young Y2K hippie chick and as the series went on pretty much no one respected her. She was 23 at the time and would've gelled much more with Pagong, but she was thrust into Tagi and agreed to an alliance with people much older than she was, but that was back on Tagi and she wasn't all that fond of Dirk or Sean so she didn't feel like the alliance was amoral.

HOWEVER, then the tribes merge and she meets Pagong and realizes how much she likes them and suddenly her morals come into play. Now that she has to vote people out who she closely relates to, she gets super conflicted on being in the alliance but is still too weak to back out. The closest she gets to leaving the alliance is throwing a vote at Sean during Jenna's boot, but that didn't change anything and was a really passive form of defiance. Kelly knew that being in the alliance benefited her even though it was against her morals, so all she did was throw her vote away to signal her complicated feelings on the game. I wish that the editors went more into the reaction to this vote because you know Richard and Sue had some choice thoughts about it.

Once the game starts to wrap up and Kelly gets further and further, everyone is sick to death of her inconsistent morals and sees through her desperate attempts to balance her conscience and inner turmoil, and the alliance that consumed her and she's now trapped in. Richard and Sue are completely over her bull****, and all of Pagong is ridiculously skeptical of Kelly's "moral dilemma" because as conflicted as she seemed, she never did anything to help herself or help them. This is how we get to Kelly almost getting voted out before Colleen and Sean, and the big blow up between Kelly and Sue. Tagi is ready to boot Kelly but will gladly use her as a number during her immunity run, and Pagong gets along well with Kelly but are puzzled when she doesn't do anything to help them out.

Right before the final TC, Greg summed up Kelly pretty well in a confessional by referring to her various identity crises ("I'm a hippie but I'm not a hippie" ; "I'm a double agent but I'm not lying" ; "I'm here for the money but I'm not") and Colleen really captured the Pagong spirit about the final two vote ("Does anybody really think Go Kelly! She's number one! I am SO HAPPY she made it to the final two! or God, I'm glad Rich made it there. Big winner!). That's why I never understood people's issues with bitter juries. Like, a lot of Richard's votes were anti-Kelly and a lot of Kelly's votes were anti-Richard. Bitter juries have been around since the first season and are perfectly acceptable.

I know I've been talking a lot about Kelly but I love her. Her confusion on how the game should be played aligns perfectly with the audience's confusion as to how the game should be played. But at the end of the day, Richard won and we are meant to look at his cutthroat attitude and see that as the way to win. Kelly lost by being wishy-washy and we are meant to look at her conflicted morals as the way to lose.

That being said, I *LOVE* that Kelly is going to be on S31 because the game has evolved into everything she hated about it back then <3

[Firewire]

Thanks, Macie. That really helped a lot.

I started watching with Cagayan, so the game was obviously well established by then and I have my views on how the game should be played based on Tony and Natalie winning only. So watching the first season, it wasn't as exciting but it makes sense because they didn't know about blindsides or even what was coming next. I liked Kelly more than Rich, but I get why she didn't win. She only lasted so long due to her immunities. I don't get why Sue was so nasty to her though... I liked Sue but calling her a rat was completely absurd when Kelly wasn't a nasty person, she was just a confusion, really.

I'm excited to move onto Australian Outback though.

[Macie Lightfoot]

Mhmm, I get your mindset totally and it's difficult to go back in time and put yourself in that Y2K mentality. There weren't any rules or expectations as to how the game was played, and pretty much no one in America liked the Tagi Four and thought that it was cheating to have an alliance. Pagong had no alliances at all and their "let's go play in the mud volcano" dynamic made them the more well-liked tribe at the time. Like, we'll never get a 4-1-1-1-1-1-1 vote again, but the beauty of it was amazing. Everyone just voted for who they personally felt "deserved" to not be there, and then the Tagi Four silently all piled their votes on Gretchen and it was the turning point in the game. Members of the production team were CRYING at Gretchen's boot and the viewing audience was pretty upset about it too.

As for the Kelly/Sue friendship, I find it really tragic because Kelly never realized how much Sue valued her friendship, and I don't blame Kelly for this either. A lot of this comes to light in the confessional where Sue reveals that she had a close female friend who passed away back when she was about 19 or 20, and since then Sue put up that tough girl from and hadn't had a female friend since. Then Sue meets Kelly and they hit it off and Kelly fills the void that's been in Sue's life ever since her friend died. That's why we get that confessional where Sue is crying and she states that she'll never **** Kelly over -- Sue's had a guard up for 15-20 years and she finally lets Kelly in and I think she actually falls in love with her in a platonic way. Unfortunately Sue's faithfulness isn't rewarded through everything I outlined in the previous post about Kelly's wishy washiness, and Sue is just incredibly hurt by it all, which leads us to Rats and Snakes.

But like I said, I don't blame Kelly for this at all because we don't know how much of this information she had (the fate of Sue's best friend only came out in a confessional.) Kelly was only 22 during the show and Sue was 38, and I think that the age gap had something to do with Kelly not understanding how highly Sue thought of her. Kelly was friendly with Sue but probably viewed her similarly to how she viewed Richard, while Sue was in love with Kelly in a platonic way.

The whole thing is sad and tragic but part of the reason why I LOVE Borneo if you couldn't tell. Everything is just so real and every character is so fleshed out and understandable. Especially nowadays where we're subjected to tryhards like Reed delivering phony, whiny, and self-serving jury speeches that have no clout to them, Sue's jury speech was raw emotion. It came from a place of hurt and betrayal and was completely real feelings (another reason why I don't understand why people hate bitter juries and want people to just vote objectively for The Best Player -- there aren't any rules as to how one should or shouldn't play Survivor, and people playing and voting emotionally give us amazing moments like this). The closest we got in a modern day season was Trish's speech in Cagayan, and that was also amazing <3

[Firewire]

I completely understand where you're coming from. I didn't know that about Sue, must have missed that part. I understand now why she was so hurt by it. The Pagong tribe were definitely on a holiday (except Greg who seemed to mock the game throughout his time there - who I would love to see return one day) whereas the Tagi tribe played some sort of a game.

I liked all of the cast, but I was led to believe that Rudy was America's favourite (which I kind of understand why but he was completely useless, but then again it wasn't about the game back then).

Trish's speech

[Macie Lightfoot]

Mhmm, you're definitely right about Pagong treating it like a holiday and Tagi treating it like a game, and just comparing both of the tribes Kelly naturally fits into Pagong a lot more than she does with Tagi. It's no surprise that Kelly blew away the Fallen Comrades IC at F4.

A lot of the Rudy love, again, is that circa-2000 feel because he said a hellllllll of a lot of dodgy **** that's laced with homophobia and misogyny. But since it was the year 2000 and he was super old and part of that generation people were okay with it because he's just that out of touch grandfather figure. He's surly and cantankerous but everyone still loved him, even when he was stepping on their heads in the shelter and saying that he's okay with abortion but not children out of wedlock and talking about using pages of the Bible as toilet paper.

I ALSO agree with what you said about Greg (he was almost on the ballot for S31!!!) but someone who I want to see come back for similar reasons is Colleen! It took her a week of living with Richard before she decided that he was unbearable, that he needed liposuction, and then she tried to round up an alliance to blindside him on his birthday "You're not making any sense and you think you're so smart and just go home and go get your liposuction and go catch some more fish because you're BUGGING me" <333 and then she wanted to change her name to Zoe for the alphabet strategy and spent the rest of her time trolling Tagi, and then once she was voted off she went drunk to TC and begrudgingly voted for Kelly to win with the quip "maybe this money will make you be... nice or something" even better all of this somehow made her America's Sweetheart, it makes no sense <3

unfortunately Colleen kinda pulled a Kate Lawler and dissociated herself with the show so she has a 0% chance of coming back

[rk3388]

Some of the earlier seasons are too good though, you won't want to go back to the current ones
I know this is an unpopular opinion, but I love all the seasons leading up to heroes vs villains (S20) as well! Especially Gabon and China!

[Firewire]

Originally Posted by Macie Lightfoot

Mhmm, you're definitely right about Pagong treating it like a holiday and Tagi treating it like a game, and just comparing both of the tribes Kelly naturally fits into Pagong a lot more than she does with Tagi. It's no surprise that Kelly blew away the Fallen Comrades IC at F4.

A lot of the Rudy love, again, is that circa-2000 feel because he said a hellllllll of a lot of dodgy **** that's laced with homophobia and misogyny. But since it was the year 2000 and he was super old and part of that generation people were okay with it because he's just that out of touch grandfather figure. He's surly and cantankerous but everyone still loved him, even when he was stepping on their heads in the shelter and saying that he's okay with abortion but not children out of wedlock and talking about using pages of the Bible as toilet paper.

I ALSO agree with what you said about Greg (he was almost on the ballot for S31!!!) but someone who I want to see come back for similar reasons is Colleen! It took her a week of living with Richard before she decided that he was unbearable, that he needed liposuction, and then she tried to round up an alliance to blindside him on his birthday "You're not making any sense and you think you're so smart and just go home and go get your liposuction and go catch some more fish because you're BUGGING me" <333 and then she wanted to change her name to Zoe for the alphabet strategy and spent the rest of her time trolling Tagi, and then once she was voted off she went drunk to TC and begrudgingly voted for Kelly to win with the quip "maybe this money will make you be... nice or something" even better all of this somehow made her America's Sweetheart, it makes no sense <3

unfortunately Colleen kinda pulled a Kate Lawler and dissociated herself with the show so she has a 0% chance of coming back

I read about Greg being asked back but he was too busy with his career

I didn't care for Colleen until she was voted out. The final TC where she called out Rich and voted for Kelly to win was so good she was great!

I completely get that it was all real and from the heart which is probably why it's so good and one of the best seasons.

[Firewire]

Started Australian Outback now, looks much tougher than Borneo's location

[Macie Lightfoot]

"Listen to what Sean says today. He goes They voted 4 against Dirk, then they voted 4 against Gretchen, then it's like they voted 6 against, but obviously 4 against Greg and he's like if it happens one more time, I know! and I was like WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT IT'S HAPPENED THREE TIMES!!!"

<3 <3 <3

[Firewire]

I try not to spoil myself who wins it. Thankfully I don't know who wins this season, just that it's not Jeff or Kimmi. I read up on the eliminated contestants after watching... Not Debb marrying her stepson

[reece(:]

Debb Eaton

[AarynGriesfan]

Originally Posted by Firewire

Started Australian Outback now, looks much tougher than Borneo's location

Yeah I think the Outback was one of the toughest seasons physically and was the only season to last 42 days not 39. I think Africa which was season 3 is generally considered the toughest since they were stuck in a very confined area because of the lions in the area but the Outback was definitely no joke.