[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Dollface

While i agree that the bizarre hypotheticals are unnecessary; the pets thing isn't entirely irrelevant, stories like this make people think about their pets.

Yes it makes me think of mine, but there's no reason to start comparing x and y to z is it?...
What he did was, not could not and will not ever be acceptable.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Lostie!

How bizarre, you seem to be wildly making assumptions with zero basis and running with them now. No, I'm not okay with killing rats.

I'm talking about people in general, a sort of public mindset. Not you personally.

Here's a tip, get the facts before running your mouth and never think you have the authority to speak for me, because you absolutely don't.

Sir yes sir! So commanding. And the passive aggressive smilie face for a peppering of sass . Loving it.

So, a human who isn't a good person is worth more than a valued, cherished pet automatically because they're a human? How happy I am that I don't share this mindset.

No some people are essentially worthless and I probably wouldn't risk slipping a disc trying to pull them out of a fire, let alone sacrifice any other life for them, but that's not really relevant "in general". If it's a "random dog" and a "random person" (you know nothing about either of them), you're going to save the person. Because in general, people's lives are worth more than dog's lives. I don't know what's so hard to accept about that.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

It's entirely relevant when people are discussing what the appropriate action to be taken is. People are inflating the severity of the crime because they feel warm and fluffy about puppies.

No, your psycho babble about pets and stranger or strange pets and kids isn't relevant.
Of course people are going to react to this in an emotive way it's human nature.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

No, your psycho babble about pets and stranger or strange pets and kids isn't relevant.
Of course people are going to react to this in an emotive way it's human nature.

Yes just like the human and emotive way that people reacted to thousands of immigrants drowning in the med, or young students accidentally killing themselves with medication bought online or... oh no wait people are more upset about the dog.

Obviously.

We should probably just hang the guy who did it I guess. C'mon Dave, hurry up with that death legislation! Don't you realise that a puppy has been brutally murdered???


...meh. I can appreciate that I've been a bit all over the place in this thread, I guess, but I'm finding people's lack of any rational perspective quite bewildering. I always do when it comes to "poor puppy" cases.

[Lostie!]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I'm talking about people in general, a sort of public mindset. Not you personally.

Oh, okay. I believe you.

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Sir yes sir! So commanding. And the passive aggressive smilie face for a peppering of sass . Loving it.

Absolutely! I happen to feel passionate about my right to speak for myself, probably because I have at least a modicum of self respect.

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

No some people are essentially worthless and I probably wouldn't risk slipping a disc trying to pull them out of a fire, let alone sacrifice any other life for them, but that's not really relevant "in general". If it's a "random dog" and a "random person" (you know nothing about either of them), you're going to save the person. Because in general, people's lives are worth more than dog's lives. I don't know what's so hard to accept about that.

A random dog? My question specifically asked if you automatically put a human life over a "valued, cherished pet" simply because they're human.

But, let's play with your scenario. My honest response is I don't know what I would do (and there are hypothetical situations for all of us where our only answer would be "I don't know"), because I value animals too much to simply abandon one to death simply because it's an animal, and at the same time I wouldn't be able to leave a human life to die either.

I very much doubt I'll ever be in this situation, which is fortunate because, unlike yourself, I don't have such a trivial attitude towards animal life. If it's less important to you, fair enough, but it's not to me.

I think that's all we have to say on the issue. I care very much about animals, you don't as much. I think any continuation of this will consist entirely of running around in circles.

[Toy Soldier]

Also... "psycho-babble", Kizzy? Really? You'll be declaring your support for UKIP next

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by Dollface

I didn't even notice that, where the hell did that question even come from lmao.

I'll happily answer it though, i don't care if i look like a "sociopath". My dogs are my family.

[AnnieK]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Acute transient psychotic episodes (colloquially, "rage blackouts") are actually more common than you would think under certain conditions and can be triggered specifically by things like repeated irritating noise, because the noise repeatedly interrupts normal thought process and doesn't give the mind time to rationalise. It's often compounded by things like drawn out periods of stress / lack of sleep, etc.

Not so common for them to result in something so drastically violent but it doesn't necessarily say anything at all about the "sort of person" involved.

As for the cover-up, I would call that entirely natural and actually psychologically positive. It means that in all likelihood he instantly realised what he had done and how awful it was, so set about covering it up. The truth is, the vast majority of people would do just that if they realised they had done something shameful like that. A lot of people would do it even if what had happened was an accident like hitting a pet with a car, even people who would insist before the fact "Oh I definitely wouldn't I would find the owners and tell them!". Guilt is a strange and unpredictable motivator.

It would be much MORE worrying if he had started bellowing over the fence at the house about what he had done, or simply left the dog there and gone on about his day. That would, for me, demonstrate that he didn't understand at all the gravity of his actions. He didn't do a very good job of covering it up at all, which suggests a panic after it was already done rather than any premeditated action.

I guess it sounds like I'm trying to make excuses... I'm not, I think he definitely needs help on some level. I just, as always, don't believe in "folks who are just plain evil" and think it's important to understand why things like this happen in the first place rather than simply wringing hands in the aftermath.

I get what you are saying TS and as much as I don't agree, it makes some sense. However, I massively disagree with the sentiment that most people would have done the cover up part. Some MAY have put the body somwhere or hidden it etc but I cannot see MOST people digging around under the skin of a dog they have just killed to remove a microchip that may or may not have been there. The main reaction would surely be panic if the had a "black rage" and came to realising what they had done my be running to hide the body etc. His cover up is very calculated and as worrying as the act itself IMO

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by AnnieK

I get what you are saying TS and as much as I don't agree, it makes some sense. However, I massively disagree with the sentiment that most people would have done the cover up part. Some MAY have put the body somwhere or hidden it etc but I cannot see MOST people digging around under the skin of a dog they have just killed to remove a microchip that may or may not have been there. The main reaction would surely be panic if the had a "black rage" and came to realising what they had done my be running to hide the body etc. His cover up is very calculated and as worrying as the act itself IMO

I agree, it seems far from 'psychologically positive' to me

[Suze]

I live next door to a someone who moved in nearly two years ago now, their dog barked and whined practically non stop all day when she was out, she doesn't appear to have the dog now, just two new dogs that she leaves alone to bark, it is irritating, however, never once did I ever think of taking the law into my own hands and killing the poor thing/s, rather the owners than the poor dog/s.

There is absolutely no excuse whatsoever for that evil bloke's excuse for killing that dog, no matter what way you look at it or any legalities he thought he might have. He is just an evil, callous, sod who saw an excuse for torturing and killing that dog, fact shown by the way he felt the need to dispose of the microchip from it. I hope Karma hits him big time.

[Kazanne]

He tried to hide that dog twice,thinking about where to dispose of it,even thinking of the side of the road!! he denied he had seen the dog when he was asked and seems he was only caught as fur was seen on his boots,so it seems pretty well planned out,plus he would have had a bucket of water ready.I cannot believe he is allowed to fly again.

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by Suze

I live next door to a someone who moved in nearly two years ago now, their dog barked and whined practically non stop all day when she was out, she doesn't appear to have the dog now, just two new dogs that she leaves alone to bark, it is irritating, however, never once did I ever think of taking the law into my own hands and killing the poor thing/s, rather the owners than the poor dog/s.

There is absolutely no excuse whatsoever for that evil bloke's excuse for killing that dog, no matter what way you look at it or any legalities he thought he might have. He is just an evil, callous, sod who saw an excuse for torturing and killing that dog, fact shown by the way he felt the need to dispose of the microchip from it. I hope Karma hits him big time.

Well said Suze

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Yes just like the human and emotive way that people reacted to thousands of immigrants drowning in the med, or young students accidentally killing themselves with medication bought online or... oh no wait people are more upset about the dog.

Obviously.

We should probably just hang the guy who did it I guess. C'mon Dave, hurry up with that death legislation! Don't you realise that a puppy has been brutally murdered???


...meh. I can appreciate that I've been a bit all over the place in this thread, I guess, but I'm finding people's lack of any rational perspective quite bewildering. I always do when it comes to "poor puppy" cases.

Oh come on... now your bringing up drowning refugees and deceased teens? :/
That really is lurching from the sublime to the ridiculous, I wouldn't say the measure of reactions could, would or should be comparable.

[T*]

Originally Posted by arista

The Killer

and the (Now Dead) Dog

my dog looks exactly like this
I hope the ****er gets what he did to the dog done to him

[T*]

I'm digusted at some comments in here
Toy Soldier, you should be ashamed with yourself; needless to say i wouldn't have a dog around you ever.
i'm just so speechless about that mentality...

[Mystic Mock]

Animal cruelty let off as usual by the law.

[Ammi]

..there are lots of these hypothetical/potential dilemmas about and it's sometimes said that people would save their pets in certain situations..a much loved family pet over a stranger etc...it may not be my thought process to do so but I think it's completely understandable as well because it's relating something of how totally devastated they know that they would feel if they lost their own pet and yes it's an animal and not a human but they can still directly relate how heart breaking it would be to lose that pet..whereas with a stranger..I don't think the thought process is that they would be of less 'value' than an animal but just that it would be much more difficult to relate and imagine the 'loss of them'...and it's just a 'hypothetical' anyway so it's just what the mind would 'imagine' the reaction to be...and I don't think those kind of associations and relating of emotions would have any sociopath indications at all...

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Oh come on... now your bringing up drowning refugees and deceased teens? :/
That really is lurching from the sublime to the ridiculous, I wouldn't say the measure of reactions could, would or should be comparable.

No, they shouldn't, the reaction to the death of an animal should be far less than the reaction to the loss of human life, but it's completely the other way around. The world is arse-backwards.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Dollface

Agreed. I usually try and understand that everybody has different opinions on certain topics etc. etc. but i'm utterly shocked at some of the comments in this thread, trying to make excuses for a murderer on the basis of it not being a human loss of life, it's disgusting and they really should be ashamed of themselves (arista, Toy soldier, and anyone else who shares their opinion).

I'm not "making excuses", or saying that it isn't a crime, or saying that it isn't a horrible thing to have happened... I'm just saying that it being a dog makes it a far less serious crime. Because it (rightly, and legally) does. And a "murderer"? ...Really? Really, though? Lock me up and throw away the key! I had a bacon sandwich earlier, I'm clearly a cannibal.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Dollface

I openly say that I care more about animals than humans, what's your point exactly?

See above;

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

the reaction to the death of an animal should be far less than the reaction to the loss of human life, but it's completely the other way around. The world is arse-backwards.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

No, they shouldn't, the reaction to the death of an animal should be far less than the reaction to the loss of human life, but it's completely the other way around. The world is arse-backwards.

It's not backwards, you can't expect those who have pets to not imagine that was their furry friends killed and express their shock and empathy, I just can't get why you struggle with the concept of compassion for this innocent animal.

[Dollface]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I'm not "making excuses", or saying that it isn't a crime, or saying that it isn't a horrible thing to have happened... I'm just saying that it being a dog makes it a far less serious crime. Because it (rightly, and legally) does. And a "murderer"? ...Really? Really, though? Lock me up and throw away the key! I had a bacon sandwich earlier, I'm clearly a cannibal.

murderer
ˈməːd(ə)rə(r)/Submit
noun
a person who commits murder.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

It's not backwards, you can't expect those who have pets to not imagine that was their furry friends killed and express their shock and empathy, I just can't get why you struggle with the concept of compassion for this innocent animal.

I don't struggle with people having compassion for an animal, I struggle with people having more time to express their compassion for an animal than they do to express compassion for fellow human beings. I struggle with this being a major news story, when you take a second to look at the things that are happening everywhere, every day, that are so much more horrendous that it's almost ludicrous. Because this is what sells. This is what people will bother about. This is what has lured people out of Chat 'n' Games to express their horror and disbelief. A bloody dog. It's depressing. It's depressing that the guy killed it, it's depressing that the owners had it locked in a garden bored and barking it's head off, but it's mostly depressing that people simply ARE - and admittedly - sadder and more upset about this than the countless horrors that are affecting people every minute of every day. I don't know. Maybe people just don't like to think about it too much? Poor puppy.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Dollface

murderer
ˈməːd(ə)rə(r)/Submit
noun
a person who commits murder.

murder
ˈməːdə/
noun

the unlawful premeditated killing of one human being by another.

[Dollface]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

murder
ˈməːdə/
noun

the unlawful premeditated killing of one human being by another.

So if he's not a murderer, what is he, a killer? To me murderer/killer = the same thing, someone who takes lives.