[Oliver_W]

It probably won't last, because Marc is off to a lab in America.

[Robodog]

Originally Posted by susie q

This sounds like the typical "blame the victim", stance that is adopted by many bullys. Brian did nothing to warrant being called either of those things, there should be no excuses made for it. As for my comment on Helen well it really is quite mild in comparison to some of the things both Helen and her fans have said. Thankfully I am nothing like either of them.
However I accept that "this is a free country" and if you wish to support to support bullying in any way that you want to you can.
Meanwhile I will continue to exercise my right to speak out against it, which is something I do in my non forum life. Have you ever considered doing any victim support work?

Do not try and spin this around like i am 'supporting bullys' when i am the one who is being objective enough to say that Helen AND Brian's comment's were wrong! And YOU were the one (not me) making spiteful comments when you said that Helen should 'crawl back under the stone she came from'.

I am not the one making spiteful comments about a HM like you did! You cannot call others 'supporters of bullying' when YOU the one making spiteful comments like that! If you don't like Helen for her 'spiteful comments' - why make them yourself?!

What is REALLY happening here is that you are taking sides and being unfair in that you are happy to deride Helen for making 'bad' comments, while making 'bad' comments yourself about HER. Not only that, you are also refusing to recognise Brian's aggression and verbal and physical intimidation of Helen! You say 'he's done nothing wrong'?! Do you honestly think then it is 'ok' for him to stand over someone, pointing and shouting abuse in their face whilst being physically restrained!

Did you think it was equally ok for Helen to do that to Matthew last year then? I didn't.

In my eyes, Helen was wrong last year with Matthew and Brian was wrong THIS year with Helen. I do not let my bias towards one housemate influence my sense of right and justice - as you clearly do. It's the BEHAVIOUR that's the issue here not 'who you like'. I'm not on any one HMs 'side' regardless of their behaviour. I like both Helen and Brian for different reasons and i am able to say with objectivity when Helen is wrong AND when Brian is wrong.

You however seem to have one rule for Helen and one rule for others. What is the point of celebrating your 'education work' whilst clearly displaying such hypocrisy and also making similarly spiteful comments about Helen?!

Plus your sarchastic comment to me regarding victim support is below the belt. I HAVE worked with victims and i always maintain objectivity and not let my own personal bias affect my sense of fairness, justice and sympathy. But if a colleague was to display the kind of bias and hypocrisy towards people that YOU have shown towards Helen, and especially if they were to make a spiteful comment about someone like you did about her, then i would look to have them sacked.

But like you say this IS a free country and you are free to be as hypocritical and as spiteful as YOU like. Just as i am free to tell you i think you should look in the mirror and double check the unkindness and hypocrisy in your OWN comments before making them. You cannot expect to take the moral high ground by acting as bad as the people you say are wrong! For someone who claims to work in education, i would hope that was glaringly obvious.

.

[jet]

Originally Posted by Robodog

Do not try and spin this around like i am 'supporting bullys' when i am the one who is being objective enough to say that Helen AND Brian's comment's were wrong! And YOU were the one (not me) making spiteful comments when you said that Helen should 'crawl back under the stone she came from'.

I am not the one making spiteful comments about a HM like you did! You cannot call others 'supporters of bullying' when YOU the one making spiteful comments like that! If you don't like Helen for her 'spiteful comments' - why make them yourself?!

What is REALLY happening here is that you are taking sides and being unfair in that you are happy to deride Helen for making 'bad' comments, while making 'bad' comments yourself about HER. Not only that, you are also refusing to recognise Brian's aggression and verbal and physical intimidation of Helen! You say 'he's done nothing wrong'?! Do you honestly think then it is 'ok' for him to stand over someone, pointing and shouting abuse in their face whilst being physically restrained!

Did you think it was equally ok for Helen to do that to Matthew last year then? I didn't.

In my eyes, Helen was wrong last year with Matthew and Brian was wrong THIS year with Helen. I do not let my bias towards one housemate influence my sense of right and justice - as you clearly do. It's the BEHAVIOUR that's the issue here not 'who you like'. I'm not on any one HMs 'side' regardless of their behaviour. I like both Helen and Brian for different reasons and i am able to say with objectivity when Helen is wrong AND when Brian is wrong.

You however seem to have one rule for Helen and one rule for others. What is the point of celebrating your 'education work' whilst clearly displaying such hypocrisy and also making similarly spiteful comments about Helen?!

Plus your sarchastic comment to me regarding victim support is below the belt. I HAVE worked with victims and i always maintain objectivity and not let my own personal bias affect my sense of fairness, justice and sympathy. But if a colleague was to display the kind of bias and hypocrisy towards people that YOU have shown towards Helen, and especially if they were to make a spiteful comment about someone like you did about her, then i would look to have them sacked.

But like you say this IS a free country and you are free to be as hypocritical and as spiteful as YOU like. Just as i am free to tell you i think you should look in the mirror and double check the unkindness and hypocrisy in your OWN comments before making them. You cannot expect to take the moral high ground by acting as bad as the people you say are wrong! For someone who claims to work in education, i would hope that was glaringly obvious.

.

Okay, lets put this into perspective here. Yes, Brian was emotionally upset and aggressive but does that excuse Helen saying he looked like a murderer and RAPIST - I mean WTF - NO. Hell, no. Absolutely NOT. (Let's not forget Helen's part of antagonistic sneering which seems to have been deleted form the history book.) If you were in a heated argument with someone in the safe confines (let's face it) in the BB house would you excuse them if they called YOU those same things? You could say they were threatening, or over - the - top as Brian seemed to be. But to say they looked like a murderer or rapist - come on now - would you be so understanding if it were you on the receiving end? It's disgraceful!

As for people saying derogatory things about Helen. Is this a world where Helen can call someone a paedophile with no evidence whatsoever and tweet horrible things over and over and bully people like Jale and Matthew yet everyone is supposed to be all sweetness and light when talking about her? Is everyone supposed to take the high road and be little angels? Are you living in the real world? Of course people are going to REACT. There is a MASSIVE difference between REACTING to the awfulness of someone like Helen and being the INSTIGATOR in the first place like she is.

You accused Susie of being hypocritical and 'spiteful'. WTF!!! What you are basically saying is that the likes of Helen can do and say whatever the hell they please but if anyone dare react and tell them where to shove it then they are as bad, if not worse than Helen herself. Are you serious?
Awful people like Helen are going to get negative comments - unless you live in la la land where people can do and say what they please with no comeback and if that is the case why on earth do you you watch BB?

[MrWong]

The two most desperate fame*****s on this years BB.

[Robodog]

Originally Posted by jet

Okay, lets put this into perspective here. Yes, Brian was emotionally upset and aggressive but does that excuse Helen saying he looked like a murderer and RAPIST - I mean WTF - NO. Hell, no. Absolutely NOT. (Let's not forget Helen's part of antagonistic sneering which seems to have been deleted form the history book.) If you were in a heated argument with someone in the safe confines (let's face it) in the BB house would you excuse them if they called YOU those same things? You could say they were threatening, or over - the - top as Brian seemed to be. But to say they looked like a murderer or rapist - come on now - would you be so understanding if it were you on the receiving end? It's disgraceful!

As for people saying derogatory things about Helen. Is this a world where Helen can call someone a paedophile with no evidence whatsoever and tweet horrible things over and over and bully people like Jale and Matthew yet everyone is supposed to be all sweetness and light when talking about her? Is everyone supposed to take the high road and be little angels? Are you living in the real world? Of course people are going to REACT. There is a MASSIVE difference between REACTING to the awfulness of someone like Helen and being the INSTIGATOR in the first place like she is.

You accused Susie of being hypocritical and 'spiteful'. WTF!!! What you are basically saying is that the likes of Helen can do and say whatever the hell they please but if anyone dare react and tell them where to shove it then they are as bad, if not worse than Helen herself. Are you serious?
Awful people like Helen are going to get negative comments - unless you live in la la land where people can do and say what they please with no comeback and if that is the case why on earth do you you watch BB?

Like i said i'm not taking 'sides', i happen to like Helen AND Brian. This for me its about HMs BEHAVIOUR on a case by case basis.

Helen WAS wrong last year, standing over Matthew and verbally abusing him - once. She instigated it then.

Brian was wrong THIS year by doing EXACTLY the same thing but worse; standing over Helen and verbally abusing HER - THREE times. HE instigated it every time THIS year.

Was Helen wrong to retaliate verballly to the angry man standing over her while being physically restrained and shouting 'YOU'RE A SCUMBAG' in her face and tell him he LOOKED LIKE a rapist/murderer? (Rapist was OTT, but then so was Brian's aggression. As for murderer? He did LOOK LIKE he wanted to kill her!)

Was Matthew right to retaliate verbally to Helen last year when she stood over him and call him a 'pigeon chested tw*t' and make insults about her breasts etc?

Surely Matthew had every right to insult Helen back in the face of HER intimidation, just as Helen had the right to insult Brian back when HE was the instigator. THREE times no less.

Like i said, it's not about excusing Helen: i don't. Helen was awful last year. Brian was awful THIS year. I have no problem recognising Helen's bad behaviour but it seems many many people refuse to recognise BRIAN's bad behaviour - mainly due to their flat-out hatred of Helen. Remember: everyone was verbally abusing her even BEFORE she entered the house. These people jump on Helen the minute she says a bad word but when Anyone says anything bad about her they ignore it or explain it away as 'Helen deserves it'. It's totally one sided and unfair.

If you agree that Helen was wrong to intimidate Matthew last year, then surely you must agree that Brian was wrong to intimidate Helen THIS year.

If not then you must be biased against Helen. Unlike me who maintains an objective viewpoint about HMs behaviour regardless of 'favourites'.

As for calling the previous poster 'spiteful', i didn't. I called her comment 'spiteful' where she said Helen should 'crawl back under the stone she came from'. I mentioned this only to highlight the hypocrisy of so many Helen haters who have this double standard whereby they berate Helen for her 'nasty comments' and do so by making 'nasty comments' about HER!

It's like writing 'I HATE PEOPLE WHO USE CAPITAL LETTERS!'. Do you see what i mean?

Sure anyone can say what they like! Equally i am entitled to point out their hypocrisy.

The main thing here is this: I'm not making a case for Helen, i'm making a case for FAIRNESS - whether it's Helen OR Brian doing the instigating or insulting - you cannot treat them differently and right now there are lots of people with 'one rule for Helen, one rule for anyone who insults her'. That's not fair and it's horrible to watch.

[jet]

Originally Posted by Robodog

Like i said i'm not taking 'sides', i happen to like Helen AND Brian. This for me its about HMs BEHAVIOUR on a case by case basis.

Helen WAS wrong last year, standing over Matthew and verbally abusing him - once. She instigated it then.

Brian was wrong THIS year by doing EXACTLY the same thing but worse; standing over Helen and verbally abusing HER - THREE times. HE instigated it every time THIS year.

Was Helen wrong to retaliate verballly to the angry man standing over her while being physically restrained and shouting 'YOU'RE A SCUMBAG' in her face and tell him he LOOKED LIKE a rapist/murderer? (Rapist was OTT, but then so was Brian's aggression. As for murderer? He did LOOK LIKE he wanted to kill her!)

Was Matthew right to retaliate verbally to Helen last year when she stood over him and call him a 'pigeon chested tw*t' and make insults about her breasts etc?

Surely Matthew had every right to insult Helen back in the face of HER intimidation, just as Helen had the right to insult Brian back when HE was the instigator. THREE times no less.

Like i said, it's not about excusing Helen: i don't. Helen was awful last year. Brian was awful THIS year. I have no problem recognising Helen's bad behaviour but it seems many many people refuse to recognise BRIAN's bad behaviour - mainly due to their flat-out hatred of Helen. Remember: everyone was verbally abusing her even BEFORE she entered the house. These people jump on Helen the minute she says a bad word but when Anyone says anything bad about her they ignore it or explain it away as 'Helen deserves it'. It's totally one sided and unfair.

If you agree that Helen was wrong to intimidate Matthew last year, then surely you must agree that Brian was wrong to intimidate Helen THIS year.

If not then you must be biased against Helen. Unlike me who maintains an objective viewpoint about HMs behaviour regardless of 'favourites'.

As for calling the previous poster 'spiteful', i didn't. I called her comment 'spiteful' where she said Helen should 'crawl back under the stone she came from'. I mentioned this only to highlight the hypocrisy of so many Helen haters who have this double standard whereby they berate Helen for her 'nasty comments' and do so by making 'nasty comments' about HER!

It's like writing 'I HATE PEOPLE WHO USE CAPITAL LETTERS!'. Do you see what i mean?

Sure anyone can say what they like! Equally i am entitled to point out their hypocrisy.

The main thing here is this: I'm not making a case for Helen, i'm making a case for FAIRNESS - whether it's Helen OR Brian doing the instigating or insulting - you cannot treat them differently and right now there are lots of people with 'one rule for Helen, one rule for anyone who insults her'. That's not fair and it's horrible to watch.

I can see you are trying to be fair, and I agree with what you are saying up to a point. However, I didn't say Brian wasn't wrong, he was very aggressive and threatening. But what you didn't mention was that Helen was goading him on with blatant delight on her face at him losing it. Then to say he looked like a rapist and murderer could only serve to inflame and antagonize him further when he already was clearly at boiling point. It's like those people who goad by saying 'Come on, hit me!' hoping that you will and then they'll have you for assault.
As for people being hypocritical - Helen put herself out there of her own accord to be judged on her behaviour when she entered the BB house, like the rest of the housemates. She puts herself out there to be judged when she tweets horrible, untrue things on a public site. Most BB house mates get a lot of stick on the forums, and those who are pretty awful people like Helen, get it with bells on. Do you really think people on a forum should only say nice things about nasty people to avoid being called hypocrites?

So it's not really fair to accuse posters of being hypocrites and having double standards, which especially seems to be the cry of those who like Helen. It seems to me just a way of deflecting from Helen's behaviour by putting the heat on the poster. After all, what is the BB forum but a place to discuss and yes, judge, those who have voluntarily put themselves forward for our scrutiny. It's totally unrealistic to say 'If a housemate is mean, don't be mean back or you're being a hypocrite!!!
Isn't that hypocritical in itself?
Even basically decent HM's get nasty things said about them, and I'm not a fan of that at all, but if a HM is known to be generally mean to people and posters on a forum need to vent and say something like 'let them crawl back under the rock'...etc then fair do's. Should a poster think' Ummm, I can't say that because if I do I'll be called a hypocrite'? Talk about being too PC these days? Are people going to get called out on a forum now every time they are a bit hypocritical - because we ALL are to some extent. It would be a strange and boring forum if we all had to scrutinize our words in case we have said something bad about a HM who has willingly put themselves up to be talked about and who came across as pretty awful, like Helen.
After all, it could be completely turned around and it could be said its hypocritical to call someone out for being mean when they support Helen despite HER nastiness. Right? But nobody goes on and on about that.
I'm sick listening to the words 'double standard' and 'hypocrite'. It's bloody tiresome!!

[susie q]

Originally Posted by jet

I can see you are trying to be fair, and I agree with what you are saying up to a point. However, I didn't say Brian wasn't wrong, he was very aggressive and threatening. But what you didn't mention was that Helen was goading him on with blatant delight on her face at him losing it. Then to say he looked like a rapist and murderer could only serve to inflame and antagonize him further when he already was clearly at boiling point. It's like those people who goad by saying 'Come on, hit me!' hoping that you will and then they'll have you for assault.
As for people being hypocritical - Helen put herself out there of her own accord to be judged on her behaviour when she entered the BB house, like the rest of the housemates. She puts herself out there to be judged when she tweets horrible, untrue things on a public site. Most BB house mates get a lot of stick on the forums, and those who are pretty awful people like Helen, get it with bells on. Do you really think people on a forum should only say nice things about nasty people to avoid being called hypocrites?

So it's not really fair to accuse posters of being hypocrites and having double standards, which especially seems to be the cry of those who like Helen. It seems to me just a way of deflecting from Helen's behaviour by putting the heat on the poster. After all, what is the BB forum but a place to discuss and yes, judge, those who have voluntarily put themselves forward for our scrutiny. It's totally unrealistic to say 'If a housemate is mean, don't be mean back or you're being a hypocrite!!!
Isn't that hypocritical in itself?
Even basically decent HM's get nasty things said about them, and I'm not a fan of that at all, but if a HM is known to be generally mean to people and posters on a forum need to vent and say something like 'let them crawl back under the rock'...etc then fair do's. Should a poster think' Ummm, I can't say that because if I do I'll be called a hypocrite'? Talk about being too PC these days? Are people going to get called out on a forum now every time they are a bit hypocritical - because we ALL are to some extent. It would be a strange and boring forum if we all had to scrutinize our words in case we have said something bad about a HM who has willingly put themselves up to be talked about and who came across as pretty awful, like Helen.
After all, it could be completely turned around and it could be said its hypocritical to call someone out for being mean when they support Helen despite HER nastiness. Right? But nobody goes on and on about that.
I'm sick listening to the words 'double standard' and 'hypocrite'. It's bloody tiresome!!

Thank you for the above. I havent been on the forum for a couple of days,
because of the reaction of robocop, and a couple of others making personal judgements, even suggesting I should be sacked from my job for expressing my views and all without having met me! However Im a strong decent caring
hard working person (as my friends & family will confirm)and will continue to express my opinions even if they dont match other peoples. We all have the right to freedom of speech and that also includes fans of people like Helen. I guess there are just times that it is best to agree to disagree.
Anyway I wish Robocop everyone else well, and look forward to CBB.

[Ashley.]

This is what I call a debate.^

Trolls take note.

[Marsh.]

Imagine them breeding.

[jet]

Originally Posted by susie q

Thank you for the above. I havent been on the forum for a couple of days,
because of the reaction of robocop, and a couple of others making personal judgements, even suggesting I should be sacked from my job for expressing my views and all without having met me! However Im a strong decent caring
hard working person (as my friends & family will confirm)and will continue to express my opinions even if they dont match other peoples. We all have the right to freedom of speech and that also includes fans of people like Helen. I guess there are just times that it is best to agree to disagree.
Anyway I wish Robocop everyone else well, and look forward to CBB.

You're welcome! I'm bloody angry - how dare they...
Oh the irony. People making personal judgements on you (a poster on a forum specifically designed for individual opinions) for making personal judgements on a HM who put herself out there on the public domain for 'you to decide'! Isn't it laughable (and what is that word again - oh yes - hypocritical).

I made MY judgement and that is that Helen is the biggest knob, the biggest ****, the most self - absorbed and one of the thickest and most unaware people I have ever come across, and that isn't just on BB either. And like yourself, I wish she would crawl back under that rock she came out of - which she will be doing very soon as she made a complete bollocks of her second chance on BB and showed herself to be the mind numbingly one - dimensional one - trick -pony bitch she was in her first free pass outing. She opens her gob and what comes out is nothing but cliches and obscenities and inaneness. I will never in a million years respect a liking for the creature, and it's good to have a forum to say so. So there.
I just pity that poor rock she is destined to crawl into.

[alex_front2]

Boke.

[Robodog]

Originally Posted by susie q

Thank you for the above. I havent been on the forum for a couple of days,
because of the reaction of robocop, and a couple of others making personal judgements, even suggesting I should be sacked from my job for expressing my views and all without having met me! However Im a strong decent caring
hard working person (as my friends & family will confirm)and will continue to express my opinions even if they dont match other peoples. We all have the right to freedom of speech and that also includes fans of people like Helen. I guess there are just times that it is best to agree to disagree.
Anyway I wish Robocop everyone else well, and look forward to CBB.

Yes we do all have a right to express our opinions here, however much we disagree; that's part of the fun of the forum. It's a shame you felt the need to step out of the forum for 2 days due to your becoming upset during the ongoing Helen debate.

I was upset too when you sarchastically suggested i was unfit to do care work, when all i was doing was highlighting how horrible it was to see so many people insulting Helen this year (even before she entered the house), just as i hated to see Helen being the aggressor in LAST year's series! I was being objective about Helen and only trying to be fair.

But rather than shy away from the forum and from your unpleasant and rather high-handed suggestions about me being unfit for care work, i opted instead to express my feeling back to you in your own manner by saying that if a colleague of mine had displayed favouritism/double standards like you had towards Helen, then i would look to have them sacked.

There was no personal slur or suggestion that you should actually be sacked (you're right i don't know you and i'm sure you are a lovely person!). All i did was merely throw back the verbal 'tennis ball' to you, the one that you had just thrown at me!

If you hadn't made the sarchastic comment about me being unfit for care work, then i would have nothing to throw back at you. Do you see? Surely you cannot expect forum members to be silent when you make those type of comments about them first? If getting a response upsets you then i can only advise you not to make the first strike yourself.

However, i too wish you well. I hope you enjoy the new CBB series and yet more lively debates on the forum!

Love and peace to you and yours.

ps - the name's roboDOG not roboCOP

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by Robodog

Yes we do all have a right to express our opinions here, however much we disagree; that's part of the fun of the forum. It's a shame you felt the need to step out of the forum for 2 days due to your becoming upset during the ongoing Helen debate.

I was upset too when you sarchastically suggested i was unfit to do care work, when all i was doing was highlighting how horrible it was to see so many people insulting Helen this year (even before she entered the house), just as i hated to see Helen being the aggressor in LAST year's series! I was being objective about Helen and only trying to be fair.

But rather than shy away from the forum and from your unpleasant and rather high-handed suggestions about me being unfit for care work, i opted instead to express my feeling back to you in your own manner by saying that if a colleague of mine had displayed favouritism/double standards like you had towards Helen, then i would look to have them sacked.

There was no personal slur or suggestion that you should actually be sacked (you're right i don't know you and i'm sure you are a lovely person!). All i did was merely throw back the verbal 'tennis ball' to you, the one that you had just thrown at me!

If you hadn't made the sarchastic comment about me being unfit for care work, then i would have nothing to throw back at you. Do you see? Surely you cannot expect forum members to be silent when you make those type of comments about them first? If getting a response upsets you then i can only advise you not to make the first strike yourself.

However, i too wish you well. I hope you enjoy the new CBB series and yet more lively debates on the forum!

Love and peace to you and yours.

ps - the name's roboDOG not roboCOP

Well said.