[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

It was nothing more than a money making scam, she didn't care about the animals she wanted donations of cash or things she could sell for cash. There were blankets and beds generously given too and they were found in a skip, that's how the scam was discovered.

So was this supposed to be an animal sanctuary? Did she live at the address or just keep her animals there? If she had no gas or electric I can't see how she lived there full time in reality

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Cherie

So was this supposed to be an animal sanctuary? Did she live at the address or just keep her animals there? If she had no gas or electric I can't see how she lived there full time in reality

Actually it's bewilderingly common... I've heard the local junkies talk about similar quite often. Their gas and electricity are on top-up keys, they all have their own flats but each basically never has gas, and rarely electricity. 5-10 or so all chip in to get a £10 top up and then go and sit around in one flat to charge phones / watch TV etc.

Either that or they try to unplug things in the shop to charge their phone :/.

Their own flats end up dark, cold, damp and filthy and all they really do is sleep there.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Actually it's bewilderingly common... I've heard the local junkies talk about similar quite often. Their gas and electricity are on top-up keys, they all have their own flats but each basically never has gas, and rarely electricity. 5-10 or so all chip in to get a £10 top up and then go and sit around in one flat to charge phones / watch TV etc.

Either that or they try to unplug things in the shop to charge their phone :/.

Their own flats end up dark, cold, damp and filthy and all they really do is sleep there.

It might be, be but generally they end up looking like they sleep rough. This woman has her hair coloured, her nails are painted, her clothes look clean so she obviously has access to hot water and a washing machine, I want to hear more about the "scam" as if it was meant to be a sanctuary for animals and she took public donations to look after the animals, while living at her Mums then it throws a different light on her so call mental health issues in my view

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

The difference being that I am going with what the judge decided, not seeing anything wrong with that decision. I have no need to get into conjecture

For what it's worth I agree with you,a judge has seen fit to sentence her so he must have felt the case needed it rather than some trips to a shrink,or perhaps the judge was mentally ill.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Cherie

It might be, be but generally they end up looking like they sleep rough. This woman has her hair coloured, her nails are painted, her clothes look clean so she obviously has access to hot water and a washing machine, I want to hear more about the "scam" as if it was meant to be a sanctuary for animals and she took public donations to look after the animals, while living at her Mums then it throws a different light on her so call mental health issues in my view

It depends on what you consider to be within the scope of mental health, I suppose. I can fully accept that she willingly and knowingly allowed animals to suffer for her own financial gain, I haven't at any point suggested that she's definitely some poor little lady who had good intentions but just couldn't cope, but really it makes no difference to my stance.

Someone who deliberately causes animals to suffer, and then just leaves them rotting in their kennels, for a few £ is so severely lacking in empathy that it's hard to make any case for them being "of sound mind", and there will be a cause. It's worth finding out why she is like she is, not for her, but because understanding these things is all we can do to stop other people going down the same sort of path.

People make whole careers out of trying to understand the psychology of violent criminals and murderers - what makes them violent, what gave them the urge to kill, etc. It's not to excuse them or have them set free, we're talking about extremely dangerous individuals most of whom will never be rehabilitated in any meaningful way... it's because understanding what creates a "monster" like that is how you know when to step in early to stop it happening again.

It would be much easier to say "Judge says guilty, throw him in the dungeon and forget he ever existed!" ... but isn't it worth trying to gain something? Their actions can't be reversed.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

It depends on what you consider to be within the scope of mental health, I suppose. I can fully accept that she willingly and knowingly allowed animals to suffer for her own financial gain, I haven't at any point suggested that she's definitely some poor little lady who had good intentions but just couldn't cope, but really it makes no difference to my stance.

Someone who deliberately causes animals to suffer, and then just leaves them rotting in their kennels, for a few £ is so severely lacking in empathy that it's hard to make any case for them being "of sound mind", and there will be a cause. It's worth finding out why she is like she is, not for her, but because understanding these things is all we can do to stop other people going down the same sort of path.

People make whole careers out of trying to understand the psychology of violent criminals and murderers - what makes them violent, what gave them the urge to kill, etc. It's not to excuse them or have them set free, we're talking about extremely dangerous individuals most of whom will never be rehabilitated in any meaningful way... it's because understanding what creates a "monster" like that is how you know when to step in early to stop it happening again.

It would be much easier to say "Judge says guilty, throw him in the dungeon and forget he ever existed!" ... but isn't it worth trying to gain something? Their actions can't be reversed.

That has in my view been the essence of all your posts on this case and issue.

It is why from what you and DemRed said,I altered my thinking from the hard tone I had before.
18 weeks seem a paltry sentence anyway for such suffering to animals and so many of them,that maybe the Judge has taken into account other 'facts' as to this woman's real state of mind.
That we don't know but would like to know.

I agree with Kazanne and Kizzy too,maybe she was just plain bad and they both love animals as I do and I am sure you do too.
No justification for what she did but the reasons why it happened,what was she really thinking,how do we look out for and help stop the same happening elsewhere,they are very relevant matters to questioning parts of this case.

Maybe she needed some considerable months rather than just weeks of being made to see how bad were the things she has done here.
Digging deeper,may have unearthed other factors as to her too, maybe not too.

I am and I think a good number of people are, interested in why people do the things they do,good and bad.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

I see attributing something to mental health issues as a way of making something that is basically abhorrent capable of being understood/accepted, when 9 times out of 10, the person was just nasty. There are cases of course where mental health is a genuine reason, but this one doesn't strike me as one of them. Not least because she had a lawyer defending her who if they were half way competent would use that as the first line of defense. We will just have to agree to disagree.

That's fair enough, and maybe you're right, either way it is an horrific way for that woman herself to be living. I just couldn't imagine anyone being able to be happy living in such a way

[DemolitionRed]

I was going to make a comment but then I keep repeating myself, repeating myself, repeating myself...

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

I was going to make a comment but then I keep repeating myself, repeating myself, repeating myself...

I know. I guess there's not really alot more to say on this story, you either think she's just plain evil or that she's mentally unstable. I'm sure everyone agrees though that what happened to those animals was disgusting and horrific and I hope that whatever happens to this woman after she's released from prison that she will never be allowed to keep animals again and that, that will be checked up on too

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

It depends on what you consider to be within the scope of mental health, I suppose. I can fully accept that she willingly and knowingly allowed animals to suffer for her own financial gain, I haven't at any point suggested that she's definitely some poor little lady who had good intentions but just couldn't cope, but really it makes no difference to my stance.

Someone who deliberately causes animals to suffer, and then just leaves them rotting in their kennels, for a few £ is so severely lacking in empathy that it's hard to make any case for them being "of sound mind", and there will be a cause. It's worth finding out why she is like she is, not for her, but because understanding these things is all we can do to stop other people going down the same sort of path.

People make whole careers out of trying to understand the psychology of violent criminals and murderers - what makes them violent, what gave them the urge to kill, etc. It's not to excuse them or have them set free, we're talking about extremely dangerous individuals most of whom will never be rehabilitated in any meaningful way... it's because understanding what creates a "monster" like that is how you know when to step in early to stop it happening again.

It would be much easier to say "Judge says guilty, throw him in the dungeon and forget he ever existed!" ... but isn't it worth trying to gain something? Their actions can't be reversed.

I think you underestimate how selfish/evil people can be when money is at stake, nature v nurture is another debate all together.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Cherie

I think you underestimate how selfish/evil people can be when money is at stake, nature v nurture is another debate all together.

When large sums of money are at stake, yes, that tends to be able to corrupt most people. We're talking about selling second hand dog food, though.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

When large sums of money are at stake, yes, that tends to be able to corrupt most people. We're talking about selling second hand dog food, though.

We are a nation of animal lovers, if you set up as a 'rescue' then basically all you have to do is sit back and wait for the donations to roll in, generously gifted sacks of food and tins can rack up a tidy profit!
These poor animals were taken by loving owners who could no longer cope in the hope the would find a caring person to help rehome them... most are now dead

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

When large sums of money are at stake, yes, that tends to be able to corrupt most people. We're talking about selling second hand dog food, though.

People have been murdered for a few pounds

Originally Posted by Kizzy

We are a nation of animal lovers, if you set up as a 'rescue' then basically all you have to do is sit back and wait for the donations to roll in, generously gifted sacks of food and tins can rack up a tidy profit!
These poor animals were taken by loving owners who could no longer cope in the hope the would find a caring person to help rehome them... most are now dead

Awfully sad

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Cherie

People have been murdered for a few pounds

Not by someone who was mentally stable.