[Jack_]

Originally Posted by _Tom_

Except he isn't condemning the voters - his very line is "if the voters vote the "wrong way" that's the politicians' fault and yet people are throwing insults at the voters" - he's condemning the politicians for not being engaging with their argument.

And he also said 'the people that tipped the balance were the working classes because they were preyed upon by people who used misinformation and the politics of fear and they bought it', which is true.

So you agree the Vote Leave campaign engaged in the politics of fear? I too am baffled as to why you're all in support of this video

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by _Tom_

Except he isn't condemning the voters - his very line is "if the voters vote the "wrong way" that's the politicians' fault and yet people are throwing insults at the voters" - he's condemning the politicians for not being engaging with their argument.

No he is condemning the politicians for not being engaging in general - for leaving the voting public feeling unheard and disenfranchised. Which left them vulnerable to disingenuous opportunists (Farage et al) who told them what they wanted to hear about "change" in order to fulfil their own goals, and then promptly took it all back.

At the heart of it though, he's essentially saying that "the masses" are easily duped. I've been saying that frequently since last summer on here but no one's applauded me fore it . In fact I'm frequently told that I don't give the dumb ****ers "enough credit".

[Livia]

You don't give the "dumb ****ers" enough credit, TS. You labour under the illusion that your own stance is the only right one and the vast majority of people who disagree with your view are stupid. People - including you - are still scrabbling around trying to find excuses for why people voted to exit the EU; it must be some kind of mass hysteria, or they were duped, or they didn't get enough info... It's my impression though, that people thought very carefully about their vote and many voted 'out' despite the bullsh1t going on with the 'Leave' campaign. Sadly, you're not cleverer than everyone else, you don't have more foresight, you just can't accept that other people with different views might have thought about it all just as carefully as you and come to a different conclusion.

[joeysteele]

Well for me and it is likely true on both sides. I don't think everyone that voted thought about their vote and really what it was they were voting for.

I have got angry at and am at more and more people who are Labour supporters who voted to leave, in order to get rid of David Cameron, believing that would get a general election and maybe put Labour in.
Unbelievable.

Then I have come across lot of people who voted leave,believing it would make the EU come back with a better deal.
They say Boris Johnson inferred that, I keep saying he didn't.

Then worst of all, people who really believed voting leave,would see all immigrants out of the Country within weeks.

The politicians should have been out of this campaign, all people needed was facts and pros and cons as to both sides, nothing else.
While accepting the result, never will I accept all who voted really knew or that a minority of them even cared what they were voting about.

[Liberty4eva]

Originally Posted by Livia

You don't give the "dumb ****ers" enough credit, TS. You labour under the illusion that your own stance is the only right one and the vast majority of people who disagree with your view are stupid. People - including you - are still scrabbling around trying to find excuses for why people voted to exit the EU; it must be some kind of mass hysteria, or they were duped, or they didn't get enough info... It's my impression though, that people thought very carefully about their vote and many voted 'out' despite the bullsh1t going on with the 'Leave' campaign. Sadly, you're not cleverer than everyone else, you don't have more foresight, you just can't accept that other people with different views might have thought about it all just as carefully as you and come to a different conclusion.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by arista

"I am sick and tired of being told that I shouldn't speak about anything negative that has happened or might happen"

Yes You tell them Lady
I am glad you post on SD
you are a Star

Right back at you honey

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

Well for me and it is likely true on both sides. I don;t think everyone thought about their vote and really what it was they were voting for.

I have got angry at and am at more and more people who are Labour supporters who voted to leave, in order to get rid of David Cameron, believing that would get a general election and maybe put Labour in.
Unbelievable.

Then I have come across lot of people who voted leave,believing it would make the EU come back with a better deal.
They say Boris Johnson inferred that, I keep saying he didn't.

Then worst of all, people who really believed voting leave,would see all immigrants out of the Country within weeks.

The politicians should have been out of this campaign, all people needed was facts and pros and cons as to both sides, nothing else.
While accepting the result, never will I accept all who voted really knew or that a minority of them even cared what they were voting about.

I feel somewhat the same way from the opposite side. I think a lot of those desperately wanting to remain don't understand what they are so keen to remain in and have been duped by scare mongering.

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by Livia

You don't give the "dumb ****ers" enough credit, TS. You labour under the illusion that your own stance is the only right one and the vast majority of people who disagree with your view are stupid. People - including you - are still scrabbling around trying to find excuses for why people voted to exit the EU; it must be some kind of mass hysteria, or they were duped, or they didn't get enough info... It's my impression though, that people thought very carefully about their vote and many voted 'out' despite the bullsh1t going on with the 'Leave' campaign. Sadly, you're not cleverer than everyone else, you don't have more foresight, you just can't accept that other people with different views might have thought about it all just as carefully as you and come to a different conclusion.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Livia

You don't give the "dumb ****ers" enough credit, TS. You labour under the illusion that your own stance is the only right one and the vast majority of people who disagree with your view are stupid. People - including you - are still scrabbling around trying to find excuses for why people voted to exit the EU; it must be some kind of mass hysteria, or they were duped, or they didn't get enough info... It's my impression though, that people thought very carefully about their vote and many voted 'out' despite the bullsh1t going on with the 'Leave' campaign. Sadly, you're not cleverer than everyone else, you don't have more foresight, you just can't accept that other people with different views might have thought about it all just as carefully as you and come to a different conclusion.

Liv - crystallising the thoughts of many, and vocalising them, where many dare not. This whole fecking cacophany of whinging, whining, and sniping following Brexit is tiresome and wholly irrational.

[Johnnyuk123]

Originally Posted by Livia

You don't give the "dumb ****ers" enough credit, TS. You labour under the illusion that your own stance is the only right one and the vast majority of people who disagree with your view are stupid. People - including you - are still scrabbling around trying to find excuses for why people voted to exit the EU; it must be some kind of mass hysteria, or they were duped, or they didn't get enough info... It's my impression though, that people thought very carefully about their vote and many voted 'out' despite the bullsh1t going on with the 'Leave' campaign. Sadly, you're not cleverer than everyone else, you don't have more foresight, you just can't accept that other people with different views might have thought about it all just as carefully as you and come to a different conclusion.

Arise Livia the Dragon Slayer.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by jaxie

I feel somewhat the same way from the opposite side. I think a lot of those desperately wanting to remain don't understand what they are so keen to remain in and have been duped by scare mongering.

If you had bothered to read my post properly you would have seen that was the very first thing I said actually,

[Ithinkiloveyoutoo]

Wtf these racist Brexit idiots are also targeting Spaniards?! So they want UK to be strictly British only is it? Stupid *****. Best book your future holidays in Cornwall and Brighton then to stand firm with your views.

[Ithinkiloveyoutoo]

Originally Posted by Livia

You don't give the "dumb ****ers" enough credit, TS. You labour under the illusion that your own stance is the only right one and the vast majority of people who disagree with your view are stupid. People - including you - are still scrabbling around trying to find excuses for why people voted to exit the EU; it must be some kind of mass hysteria, or they were duped, or they didn't get enough info... It's my impression though, that people thought very carefully about their vote and many voted 'out' despite the bullsh1t going on with the 'Leave' campaign. Sadly, you're not cleverer than everyone else, you don't have more foresight, you just can't accept that other people with different views might have thought about it all just as carefully as you and come to a different conclusion.

Actually not everyone thought carefully about their votes. It's been proven some Brexit now regret their votes and didn't know all the "facts"

[the truth]

racism has been on the rise is tony bliar blew up iraq

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Ithinkiloveyoutoo

Actually not everyone thought carefully about their votes. It's been proven some Brexit now regret their votes and didn't know all the "facts"

And I'm sure some remainers also had doubts.

Don't assume you're cleverer than anyone else, regardless of how they voted. And really... how tiresome are your constant "racist" comments on anyone who voted to leave.

[the truth]

i voted for brexit mainly because the eu commission is corrupt anti-democratic, unaccountable and unelected and the majority of its member nations and borderline bankrupt

[joeysteele]

There is a change for the worse as to racism and xenophobia from during the referendum campaign and post the result.
Not that it has caused it, as the people who had those prejudices would have had them anyway, although keeping them more suppressed.

However the new atmosphere from the referendum has really deteriorated things and the ugly side of such prejudices are now much more to the fore than before.

I have overheard some really horrible things,deliberately said in earshot of people from other Countries here in the UK.
I said this earlier, some people who voted leave,really sadly and stupidly in my view,believed that if the result was to leave, that all those from other Countries would be sent out of the UK within weeks.

Whatever criticisms can be made as to the remain side,and there are many,one thing for sure is no one voting for remain wanted to create that grossly ugly scenario where people who have been here for decades and see the UK as home, are made to feel not only unwelcome but fearful too, as to their future and safety.

Nobody at all who voted remain,voted for anyone to be made to feel like that or for this ugly behaviour against anyone to be brought into play ever.

[the truth]

i detest all racism but keeping things in perspective , there are different degrees of racism, stupid comments one hand , death threats violence, murder and terrorism at the worst end of the scale

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Livia

You don't give the "dumb ****ers" enough credit, TS. You labour under the illusion that your own stance is the only right one and the vast majority of people who disagree with your view are stupid. People - including you - are still scrabbling around trying to find excuses for why people voted to exit the EU; it must be some kind of mass hysteria, or they were duped, or they didn't get enough info... It's my impression though, that people thought very carefully about their vote and many voted 'out' despite the bullsh1t going on with the 'Leave' campaign. Sadly, you're not cleverer than everyone else, you don't have more foresight, you just can't accept that other people with different views might have thought about it all just as carefully as you and come to a different conclusion.

I don't give them ANY credit. Not the ones who voted based on bull**** reasons that have been proven false. You can claim these people don't exist all day... They do . I didn't say that all leave voters are fick nor that all remain voters are brightsparks. People voted remain for hilarious reasons too. Like wanting to "be able to go to Disneyland Paris"... I've stated more than once that both sides of the campaign were a shambles. Few truths, all fear.

Im well aware that I'm not "cleverer than everyone else"... I am however cleverer than most people. So are you. As you well know. Is there honour in false modesty? Meh... Maybe, but I personally can't be arsed with it.

As for labouring under the belief that my stance is the right one - I've covered this multiple times on here. Of course I am?? If anyone truly believes that their stance is NOT the right one then why are they even bothering to share an opinion? This baffles me. I can freely admit that there is a possibility that I'm incorrect but of course I don't believe that I am? What sort of bull**** is that

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

No he is condemning the politicians for not being engaging in general - for leaving the voting public feeling unheard and disenfranchised. Which left them vulnerable to disingenuous opportunists (Farage et al) who told them what they wanted to hear about "change" in order to fulfil their own goals, and then promptly took it all back.

At the heart of it though, he's essentially saying that "the masses" are easily duped. I've been saying that frequently since last summer on here but no one's applauded me fore it . In fact I'm frequently told that I don't give the dumb ****ers "enough credit".

Don't worry Toy Soldier I've been agreeing with you all along on this, and many other people have too, just because we don't all post on here on these threads doesn't mean that there isn't people agreeing with you.

I am amazed at just how many people buy the **** that The Sun and The Daily Mail sell to people, I thought that most people read those Papers just to laugh at them, not actually buying what they sell.

[LeatherTrumpet]

I went to Fife today

I saw no racism.

So all is ok

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by Livia

You don't give the "dumb ****ers" enough credit, TS. You labour under the illusion that your own stance is the only right one and the vast majority of people who disagree with your view are stupid. People - including you - are still scrabbling around trying to find excuses for why people voted to exit the EU; it must be some kind of mass hysteria, or they were duped, or they didn't get enough info... It's my impression though, that people thought very carefully about their vote and many voted 'out' despite the bullsh1t going on with the 'Leave' campaign. Sadly, you're not cleverer than everyone else, you don't have more foresight, you just can't accept that other people with different views might have thought about it all just as carefully as you and come to a different conclusion.

Tbf a lot of people that I've listened to speak on the EU front wanted the Muslims out of the country, and wanted the NHS fixed, two things which are never going to be fixed by pulling out of the EU as the Governments in this country don't give a **** about a mass of Muslims in the country as they're easy figures to control and put more blame on for the woes in the country, and both the Tories and Labour have grown to despise the NHS as it means that the working class get free healthcare and those two parties hate having to fund anything for the working class, so being out of the EU won't change those two things.

Also a lot of people are putting it as a class war, the thing is that the working class in this country will be hindered a lot more by a financially poorer Tories than we ever was staying in the EU and letting the Tories and Labour have what they want on that front.

[LeatherTrumpet]

Mock do u get what anecdotal evidence is?

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by jaxie

I feel somewhat the same way from the opposite side. I think a lot of those desperately wanting to remain don't understand what they are so keen to remain in and have been duped by scare mongering.

Both sides have scare mongered, just saying that one over the other has done that is incredibly biased.

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

Mock do u get what anecdotal evidence is?

We all could be claimed to be doing that on this very thread so don't just throw that at me.