[jaxie]

The players focus intently on their cards, holding them close to their chests as the betting gets tenser, the stakes higher.
Suddenly a small voice pipes up.
"Mummy, two sevens are really good, aren't they, Mummy? You're going to win, aren't you, Mummy?"
Mummy throws down her pathetic single pair, the paucity of her position stripped bare. Even if the kids had blurted out that there was a royal flush in hand, the stratagem would have been ruined.
You can well understand why Mrs May does not want to let MPs peek at her Brexit hand, let alone dictate what it is.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politic...he-eu-37648525

Made me laugh.

[Northern Monkey]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Were we expecting debates in parliament?....I was.

What would that achieve though?Suppose some kind of conclusion was reached?It would mean nothing because the terms are'nt just down to parliament but the EU also.All it would do is show our full hand to the people we are negotiating with.Not a clever move.

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Were we expecting debates in parliament?....I was.

What's to debate, we were asked a question with 2 answers. We voted.

[Johnnyuk123]

Tbh the sooner Scotland goes the better. Get rid then put that wall up.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by jaxie

What's to debate, we were asked a question with 2 answers. We voted.

Not us... Parliament.

It was the week when the fight back against hard Tory Brexit finally began. And the loud squeals of outrage and surprise from startled ministers, sneering pundits and the lie factories of Fleet Street could be heard as far away as Brussels. Having won the vote, Tory Brexiters thought they had won the wider argument. They thought they could make Brexit mean whatever they wanted it to mean. They claimed an overreaching mandate they do not possess. They said, in effect, “trust us, we know best”. And then, muttering “no running commentaries”, they tried to close down debate.

The good news of the past few days is that they have not succeeded. And they will not get away with it. The result of June’s referendum is not in dispute. A majority voted to leave the EU. Any government, Conservative or Labour, is honour-bound to carry out that instruction. What is in dispute, rightly and passionately, is the manner of that exit, the terms and conditions of Britain’s departure, and the degree of democratic oversight that is necessary and proper. To suggest otherwise is borne of a mixture of churlishness, arrogance and fear.

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...ate-article-50

[Kizzy]

NI think it's a disaster too...

Northern Ireland should push the EU to grant it special associate or even membership status to avoid the “devastating” consequences of Brexit for Irish people, Martin McGuinness has said.

The deputy first minister and Sinn Féin leader told the Guardian that leaders in Belfast and Dublin needed to work together to make the case for special rules to apply to Northern Ireland. The province voted 56:44 in favour of staying in the EU in June’s referendum, but will be forced to pull out when Britain does.

“As things sit at the moment we are going to suffer big time,” McGuinness said. “Theresa May says ‘Brexit means Brexit’, but so far as we are concerned Brexit means disaster for the people of Ireland.”

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...rthern-ireland

[Kizzy]

Youtube video

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Not us... Parliament.

It was the week when the fight back against hard Tory Brexit finally began. And the loud squeals of outrage and surprise from startled ministers, sneering pundits and the lie factories of Fleet Street could be heard as far away as Brussels. Having won the vote, Tory Brexiters thought they had won the wider argument. They thought they could make Brexit mean whatever they wanted it to mean. They claimed an overreaching mandate they do not possess. They said, in effect, “trust us, we know best”. And then, muttering “no running commentaries”, they tried to close down debate.

The good news of the past few days is that they have not succeeded. And they will not get away with it. The result of June’s referendum is not in dispute. A majority voted to leave the EU. Any government, Conservative or Labour, is honour-bound to carry out that instruction. What is in dispute, rightly and passionately, is the manner of that exit, the terms and conditions of Britain’s departure, and the degree of democratic oversight that is necessary and proper. To suggest otherwise is borne of a mixture of churlishness, arrogance and fear.

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...ate-article-50

Parliament work for us. The people have spoken, at this point in the game apart from the bill setting the legalities of leaving in motion there is nothing to debate. Not until dialogue has happened and there is a deal on offer. Of course if we go hard credit there is nothing to debate anyway it's a straight forward out.

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

NI think it's a disaster too...

Northern Ireland should push the EU to grant it special associate or even membership status to avoid the “devastating” consequences of Brexit for Irish people, Martin McGuinness has said.

The deputy first minister and Sinn Féin leader told the Guardian that leaders in Belfast and Dublin needed to work together to make the case for special rules to apply to Northern Ireland. The province voted 56:44 in favour of staying in the EU in June’s referendum, but will be forced to pull out when Britain does.

“As things sit at the moment we are going to suffer big time,” McGuinness said. “Theresa May says ‘Brexit means Brexit’, but so far as we are concerned Brexit means disaster for the people of Ireland.”

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...rthern-ireland

Well Martin McGuiness is a Republican so is not without other motives to make issue of Brexit. There are political and bargaining positions at play here.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by jaxie

Parliament work for us. The people have spoken, at this point in the game apart from the bill setting the legalities of leaving in motion there is nothing to debate. Not until dialogue has happened and there is a deal on offer. Of course if we go hard credit there is nothing to debate anyway it's a straight forward out.

Sorry ... Are you misunderstanding what I am saying?

It's not the issue of in/out that is up for negotiation in any way.

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Sorry ... Are you misunderstanding what I am saying?

It's not the issue of in/out that is up for negotiation in any way.

Nope you just took two parts out of context and didn't really read what I said.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by jaxie

Nope you just took two parts out of context and didn't really read what I said.

Yes I did, you stated there is nothing to debate... there really is .

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Yes I did, you stated there is nothing to debate... there really is .

At this point there really isnt. There is nothing on the table until they negotiate. There is nothing to tell.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Greg!

"Right guys the right to self determination is cancelled because thisisbigbrother.com will get a lil messy"

..(I think, Greg..)..that Lily meant Scotland with 'this place', not the forum...she's a Scottish member herself...it would be quite gruelling for the people of Scotland to go through again...

[bitontheslide]

Originally Posted by jaxie

At this point there really isnt. There is nothing on the table until they negotiate. There is nothing to tell.

Most of the options will be driven by political leanings and as is always the case when we run things ourselves, its up to the government in power to negotiate. Its not some glorious free for all that will be debated at microscopic detail. If it was, we would still be trying to agree negotiations in 30 years time

[Greg!]

Originally Posted by Ammi

..(I think, Greg..)..that Lily meant Scotland with 'this place', not the forum...she's a Scottish member herself...it would be quite gruelling for the people of Scotland to go through again...

Oh lmao yeah I thought that after I posted it. I'm Scottish too and imo Scotland really wasn't that bad during the last one. There were quite a lot of heated debates but I don't know one single person that properly fell out with someone over it

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Greg!

Oh lmao yeah I thought that after I posted it. I'm Scottish too and imo Scotland really wasn't that bad during the last one. There were quite a lot of heated debates but I don't know one single person that properly fell out with someone over it

...I think it's one of those things that probably affected people differently in areas and the passion felt in specific places..?...I said earlier in the thread of someone on another forum that talked about it at the time and it was horrendous for her.../fall outs in families and with neighbours etc because of differing intentions of voting...I do agree, Nicola should only think of it if it's what the majority want but I do think that is a big consideration as well because it's the people that have to go through it all, if they feel it's the way forward for them...but yeah, I think we're all influenced with our own personal experiences with these things as well...although I haven't agreed with an unelected PM in Theresa May, I'm not really in any rush to go through another GE election either....

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

Most of the options will be driven by political leanings and as is always the case when we run things ourselves, its up to the government in power to negotiate. Its not some glorious free for all that will be debated at microscopic detail. If it was, we would still be trying to agree negotiations in 30 years time

Exactly right! I don't get all this every bit must be negotiated in parliament, and it is only on this issue that I keep hearing people whimper about it. That isn't how every aspect of government works, if it was nothing would ever get done. And at this point there really is nothing for anyone to debate if that was the route they were going on because no negotiations have been held. The government are probably still getting their act together on this.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by jaxie

Well Martin McGuiness is a Republican so is not without other motives to make issue of Brexit. There are political and bargaining positions at play here.

tbf though we trade a lot with the North since we're part of the same small Island, it's a big issue for us as well as northern Ireland, our government have also been asking about this

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

tbf though we trade a lot with the North since we're part of the same small Island, it's a big issue for us as well as northern Ireland, our government have also been asking about this

Of course, there are a lot of interested parties who want to know what's going to happen and if they will now have to pay tarrifs. But I think those in the Union claiming disaster and nevermores (SNP, Sinn Fein) at this early point do have their agendas as they believe there are bargaining chips to be had as well as any other concerns to their economy about leaving, obviously they want to play as big a part in deciding what goes down as they possibly can.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by jaxie

Of course, there are a lot of interested parties who want to know what's going to happen and if they will now have to pay tarrifs. But I think those in the Union claiming disaster and nevermores (SNP, Sinn Fein) at this early point do have their agendas as they believe there are bargaining chips to be had as well as any other concerns to their economy about leaving, obviously they want to play as big a part in deciding what goes down as they possibly can.

They may have agendas but it doesn't take away the fact that it's a huge issue for both the ROI and NI. Where I work we deal a fair bit with the North so it will directly affect my job for example

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

They may have agendas but it doesn't take away the fact that it's a huge issue for both the ROI and NI. Where I work we deal a fair bit with the North so it will directly affect my job for example

It's all depending really on what sort of deal they strike with the EU isn't it. I don't think any of us really knows whether it will be some sort of single market/friends with benefits deal or a full out yet. Other countries do have a vested interest in wanting the UK to stay in free trade deals as they don't want to have to export to us under tarriffs so no one can say yet what they will be willing to compromise on or not. At the moment I think all this my way or the highway talk from people like Tusk is bluster until they actually start talking. I don't think anyone can call it a disaster at this point.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by jaxie

It's all depending really on what sort of deal they strike with the EU isn't it. I don't think any of us really knows whether it will be some sort of single market/friends with benefits deal or a full out yet. Other countries do have a vested interest in wanting the UK to stay in free trade deals as they don't want to have to export to us under tarriffs so no one can say yet what they will be willing to compromise on or not. At the moment I think all this my way or the highway talk from people like Tusk is bluster until they actually start talking. I don't think anyone can call it a disaster at this point.

Indeed, it's just more of a worry for us than any other EU country i would imagine because of NI and also the rest of the UK as we're so close to the Uk and so far away from all the other countries. And we trade alot with you

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by jaxie

It's all depending really on what sort of deal they strike with the EU isn't it. I don't think any of us really knows whether it will be some sort of single market/friends with benefits deal or a full out yet. Other countries do have a vested interest in wanting the UK to stay in free trade deals as they don't want to have to export to us under tarriffs so no one can say yet what they will be willing to compromise on or not. At the moment I think all this my way or the highway talk from people like Tusk is bluster until they actually start talking. I don't think anyone can call it a disaster at this point.

So what you want... is for the UK to be a part of the single market and enjoy all of the benefits of the single market, without having to comply with the rules of the single market, agree to the open borders that are a huge part of that open market, or pay anything towards its upkeep?

I believe that's what's known as "having your cake and eating it too", isn't it?

The countries that are not full EU members but still engage with the single market in meaningful ways (e.g. Norway, Switzerland, Iceland) simply piggyback all or most of the trade rules directly from EU law every time a new one comes into force, in order to still be compatible with the market. Also, the leaders of these countries have SPECIFICALLY STATED that the only reason that works for them, is because they have relatively small populations. The UK couldn't do the same even if it wanted to, because of the size of the population and economy. And even if it was possible - what was the point of all that bleating about getting out of Europe to "not allow others to make our laws!"... only to then follow all of the EU laws anyway?

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

So what you want... is for the UK to be a part of the single market and enjoy all of the benefits of the single market, without having to comply with the rules of the single market, agree to the open borders that are a huge part of that open market, or pay anything towards its upkeep?

I believe that's what's known as "having your cake and eating it too", isn't it?

The countries that are not full EU members but still engage with the single market in meaningful ways (e.g. Norway, Switzerland, Iceland) simply piggyback all or most of the trade rules directly from EU law every time a new one comes into force, in order to still be compatible with the market. Also, the leaders of these countries have SPECIFICALLY STATED that the only reason that works for them, is because they have relatively small populations. The UK couldn't do the same even if it wanted to, because of the size of the population and economy. And even if it was possible - what was the point of all that bleating about getting out of Europe to "not allow others to make our laws!"... only to then follow all of the EU laws anyway?

Me personally, no, I'd like a hard Brexit I'd just like us to leave and get on with it. Perhaps make the commonwealth a beacon of free trade. We have options. But I think there are a lot of other people who have an interest in that. We have no way of knowing what way the negotiations will go yet.

There are Germans, French and other national business who might prefer to carry in free trade with us, that's rather the point of negotiating a deal. I would disagree that it is having our cake and eating it though. When we signed on, we signed up for a free market, there was no four rules then. The rest all came along later with treaties we were never asked to approve. I'm not sure why we can't still have a trade deal with the EU if it's desirable to all parties. It is what we signed up for in the first place.

It reminds me a bit of buying a car, then a few years later the company comes along and says, we are going to take the wheels back because we've made up a new rule. That's what happened to us. We signed up for one thing, then they said oh no the rules have changed. Now you have to do this and this and this to have that.