[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I feel like this is a tall order on a thread that's basically asking "Was this well known historical racist right or wrong" ...

I mean... personal and insulting... sort of is the only topic here.

I actually know very little about him, I know the name but nothing about what he did or what he stood for

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

I actually know very little about him, I know the name but nothing about what he did or what he stood for

Upon Powell's death, Barbados-born Wilfred Wood, then Bishop of Croydon, stated, "Enoch Powell gave a certificate of respectability to white racist views which otherwise decent people were ashamed to acknowledge".

That sums it up quite well really. Like a proto-Farage... actually makes Farage look good.

I literally don't know how to say anything else on this topic without indirectly insulting forum members, tbh.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

That sums it up quite well really. Like a proto-Farage... actually makes Farage look good.

I literally don't know how to say anything else on this topic without indirectly insulting forum members, tbh.

I might have a read up about him later

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

That sums it up quite well really. Like a proto-Farage... actually makes Farage look good.

I literally don't know how to say anything else on this topic without indirectly insulting forum members, tbh.

Just read his rivers of blood speech, wow. Although, i hate to say it but it's not too far off some stuff I've read lately regarding Muslims.

I thought it was pretty funny though, this bit :

That tragic and intractable phenomenon which we watch with horror on the other side of the Atlantic but which there is interwoven with the history and existence of the States itself, is coming upon us here by our own volition and our own neglect. Indeed, it has all but come. In numerical terms, it will be of American proportions long before the end of the century.

Like what is he saying here exactly?? America was built on the back of immigrants who almost wiped out the indigenous people and after that they were the ones shipping in immigrants to use as slaves :/

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Just read his rivers of blood speech, wow. Although, i hate to say it but it's not too far off some stuff I've read lately regarding Muslims.

I thought it was pretty funny though, this bit :

That tragic and intractable phenomenon which we watch with horror on the other side of the Atlantic but which there is interwoven with the history and existence of the States itself, is coming upon us here by our own volition and our own neglect. Indeed, it has all but come. In numerical terms, it will be of American proportions long before the end of the century.

Like what is he saying here exactly?? America was built on the back of immigrants who almost wiped out the indigenous people and after that they were the ones shipping in immigrants to use as slaves :/

That is exactly what he's saying though... Lamenting the end of slavery and quaking in his boots at the idea of people from "the dark continents" living there on any sort of equal footing as free citizens. But you're right, the whole thing reads almost word for word like something you might read in a tabloid opinion piece, on social media, or on a forum these days. The sort of dialogue that a year ago I would have sworn was long a thing of the past, died with the likes of this fellow. But here we are... It's back, loud and proud, and getting louder.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

That is exactly what he's saying though... Lamenting the end of slavery and quaking in his boots at the idea of people from "the dark continents" living there on any sort of equal footing as free citizens. But you're right, the whole thing reads almost word for word like something you might read in a tabloid opinion piece, on social media, or on a forum these days. The sort of dialogue that a year ago I would have sworn was long a thing of the past, died with the likes of this fellow. But here we are... It's back, loud and proud, and getting louder.

It's pretty scary really, how backwards attitudes seem to be going. I mean I understand people are scared because of the attacks, I do get that but attitudes like Enoch powells only make everything even worse and only serve to divide people even more.....which is exactly the reaction that ISIS are looking for really

[Livia]

Originally Posted by JTM45

Wow...........i hoped i'd never in this day and age see people who call themselves British acting like cheeleaders for such a truly repugnant man!

Our ancestors gave their lives fighting to stop people like him from ever ruling this Country and i'm extremely grateful for that.

Cheer on...........

Our ancestors would not have picked up a weapon if they had known what would happen to the country they knew. No one can every talk about immigration without being branded. That's what I find repugnant.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Livia

Our ancestors would not have picked up a weapon if they had known what would happen to the country they knew. No one can every talk about immigration without being branded. That's what I find repugnant.

Hm yes, everyone wanting to have a sensible, reasonable discussion about immigration is "branded". The content of such "discussions" has absolutely nothing to do with it.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Hm yes, everyone wanting to have a sensible, reasonable discussion about immigration is "branded". The content of such "discussions" has absolutely nothing to do with it.

Everyone wanted a sensible discussion and no one listened. And that why we are facing Brexit. That's why the Right is having a bit of a comeback. No one asked whether diversity was what people wanted, it was forced upon the by people who think they're right about everything. Now, no one can speak about it without being branded a racist.

[Niamh.]

Back on topic please

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Livia

Everyone wanted a sensible discussion and no one listened. And that why we are facing Brexit. That's why the Right is having a bit of a comeback. No one asked whether diversity was what people wanted, it was forced upon the by people who think they're right about everything. Now, no one can speak about it without being branded a racist.

Indeed - Brexit was what it took to be heard in these politically correct times when, even in the so-called adult world, name-calling is the name of the game and the way to go to shut down unpopular opinions with the left.

Brexit was inevitable and those crying the loudest about it carry a large proportion of the blame.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

Indeed - Brexit was what it took to be heard in these politically correct times when, even in the so-called adult world, name-calling is the name of the game and the way to go to shut down unpopular opinions with the left.

Brexit was inevitable and those crying the loudest about it carry a large proportion of the blame.

I thought Brexit was about what was best for Britain though not pay back for not being allowed to talk about immigration?

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

I thought Brexit was about what was best for Britain though not pay back for not being allowed to talk about immigration?

It is in my opinion but I think there is little doubt that immigration was a reason why so many voted for Brexit. I do believe many, including myself, were frustrated about being shouted down every time they expressed concerns on this issue. It turned out this issue was a concern for the many rather than the few.

[longstar]

this is what Enoch said in a live interview in 1977, as said/ THE PROSPECT IS THAT POLITICIANS OF ALL PARTIES WILL SAY WELL ENOCH POWELL WAS RIGHT BUT WE DON'T SAY THAT IN PUBLIC BUT WE KNOW IT IN PRIVATE, ENOCH POWELL'S RIGHT AND IT WILL KNOW DOUBT DEVELOPERS HE SAYS, BUT ITS BETTER FOR US TO DO NOTHING NOW AND LET IT HAPPEN PERHAPS AFTER OUR TIME THEN TO SEIZE THE MANY POISONOUS NETTLES WHICH WE WOULD HAVE TO SEIZE IF WE WHERE AT THIS STAGE GOING TO ATTEMPT TO AVERT THE OUTCOME, SO LET IT GO ON UNTIL A THIRD OF CENTRAL LONDON A THIRD OF BIRMINGHAM, WOLVERHAMPTON, ARE COVERED UNTIL THE CIVIL WAR COMES, LET IT GO ON WE WON'T BE BLAMED, WILL EITHER HAVE GONE OR SLIP OUT UNDER SOMEHOW. Enoch did not really predict it, but he knew that it is going to happen, why, he was in the highest area's of government, and that means he had information that the public would never have been aware of, and he knew what was going to happen in the next 40 to 50 years, and it is becoming reality right now, he saw what the government was going to do in the future, and that's why he was really kicked out of politics.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

This is what Enoch Powel said long before some of us were born,1968 ,do you agree with what he said all those years ago,Was he right or was he wrong?

Yeah, because the community and culture we had/have isn't as a result of immigration and "mixing with strangers" anyway.

[Lee.]

Enoch Powell was a big paedo. And still our present day politicians (Ms May) are covering up the huge child abuse ring within Westminster.

[Tozzie]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

This is what Enoch Powel said long before some of us were born,1968 ,do you agree with what he said all those years ago,Was he right or was he wrong?

I agree with what he said for the mostpart and there will be a bloodbath in this country one day, I and many other people feel the tension, it;s only a matter of time. Of course, most intelligent people know the terrorists are not really followers of the true muslim faith people are beginning to wonder who of all muslims that walk among us are good muslim people or who are terrorists. How can we differentiate who are radicalized muslims and who are peace loving muslims as radicalization is being carried out on our own doorsteps by our own neighbours yet we don't know which neighbours. In an ideal world everyone would get along but I feel as long as people are driven by religion there will never be a solution. Had people listened to Powell perhaps we wouldn't be all living in fear of our lives on a daily basis now. Of course he was deemed as racist, perhaps he was but that doesn't take away the fact that he in my eyes knew what he was talking about. The bloodshed on such a large scale in England these days is only the beginning. I feel for the young families growing up in these scary times.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Tozzie

I agree with what he said for the mostpart and there will be a bloodbath in this country one day, I and many other people feel the tension, it;s only a matter of time. Of course, most intelligent people know the terrorists are not really followers of the true muslim faith people are beginning to wonder who of all muslims that walk among us are good muslim people or who are terrorists. How can we differentiate who are radicalized muslims and who are peace loving muslims as radicalization is being carried out on our own doorsteps by our own neighbours yet we don't know which neighbours. In an ideal world everyone would get along but I feel as long as people are driven by religion there will never be a solution. Had people listened to Powell perhaps we wouldn't be all living in fear of our lives on a daily basis now. Of course he was deemed as racist, perhaps he was but that doesn't take away the fact that he in my eyes knew what he was talking about. The bloodshed on such a large scale in England these days is only the beginning. I feel for the young families growing up in these scary times.

Agreed. Good post Tozzie!

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Lee.

Enoch Powell was a big paedo. And still our present day politicians (Ms May) are covering up the huge child abuse ring within Westminster.

Well said Lee and wonderful to see you around

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Tozzie

I agree with what he said for the mostpart and there will be a bloodbath in this country one day, I and many other people feel the tension, it;s only a matter of time. Of course, most intelligent people know the terrorists are not really followers of the true muslim faith people are beginning to wonder who of all muslims that walk among us are good muslim people or who are terrorists. How can we differentiate who are radicalized muslims and who are peace loving muslims as radicalization is being carried out on our own doorsteps by our own neighbours yet we don't know which neighbours. In an ideal world everyone would get along but I feel as long as people are driven by religion there will never be a solution. Had people listened to Powell perhaps we wouldn't be all living in fear of our lives on a daily basis now. Of course he was deemed as racist, perhaps he was but that doesn't take away the fact that he in my eyes knew what he was talking about. The bloodshed on such a large scale in England these days is only the beginning. I feel for the young families growing up in these scary times.

So what's the answer, we bend to the will of the racists as we cower in fear of a handful of radicals?

That doesn't sound very British to me.

[Tom4784]

Enoch Powell was a repugnant racist **** and nothing he said was right, it's not the fault of immigration that 'wives can't find hospital beds in childbirth' or school places are difficult to find. These are all a result of a Tory government that wants to decimate public services in favour of a privatised system.

It's not the fault of people of different races, it's the fault of a government who are using immigration as an excuse to destroy public services and a public who are gullible enough to accept it because they think it justifies their racism.

[Scarlett.]

Enoch Powell can go **** himself and his ****ty opinions. He wasn't right back then, he isn't right now.

[Northern Monkey]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Enoch Powell was a repugnant racist **** and nothing he said was right, it's not the fault of immigration that 'wives can't find hospital beds in childbirth' or school places are difficult to find. These are all a result of a Tory government that wants to decimate public services in favour of a privatised system.

It's not the fault of people of different races, it's the fault of a government who are using immigration as an excuse to destroy public services and a public who are gullible enough to accept it because they think it justifies their racism.

You know if Labour win and we see that the NHS is still overstretched with not enough beds and A&E bursting at the seems you're gonna have to find another scapegoat to blame.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Northern Monkey

You know if Labour win and we see that the NHS is still overstretched with not enough beds and A&E bursting at the seems you're gonna have to find another scapegoat to blame.

I think you've got that arse backwards there... If labour win and don't address the actual problems then of course nothing will change. That doesn't reflect at all on whether "all of those immigrants" have anything to do with it being overstretched.

... It's when the Tories stay in power, and if they do successfully drastically reduce immigration, AND YET none of our problems magically disappear and the NHS is still bursting at the seams... That's when those who blame migration as a catch-all for every problem will have to find another scapegoat. Seriously... What are the Powells of the world going to do if they drastically decrease immigration but problems persist? Who are they going to blame? I don't even have to ask I suppose; it will be "breeders on benefits" all of a sudden.

[Northern Monkey]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I think you've got that arse backwards there... If labour win and don't address the actual problems then of course nothing will change. That doesn't reflect at all on whether "all of those immigrants" have anything to do with it being overstretched.

... It's when the Tories stay in power, and if they do successfully drastically reduce immigration, AND YET none of our problems magically disappear and the NHS is still bursting at the seams... That's when those who blame migration as a catch-all for every problem will have to find another scapegoat. Seriously... What are the Powells of the world going to do if they drastically decrease immigration but problems persist? Who are they going to blame? I don't even have to ask I suppose; it will be "breeders on benefits" all of a sudden.

I do actually think the Tories have a big part to play in the NHS but underfunding is not the ONLY problem.It possibly half the problem.We have the Tories who are saying they will tackle immigration(probably won't) and they'll still carry on underfunding the NHS and running it into the ground.
Then we have Labour who would(hopefully) put more into the NHS and pay the nurses what they deserve but are weak on the immigration part.
Now i am going to vote Labour as i think they're the lesser of two evils but if they don't tackle the immigration part and it infact gets worse they're going to be flushing that extra funding down the toilet.
The NHS imo was never designed to be able to handle an ever increasing population.