[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by jaxie

The fact that a deal has been so slow and what it does to May's credibiliy aside, I fail to understand why anyone would think an area of the UK that desperately needs more cash getting some is a dreadful thing. No matter how they got it. Good luck to them for squeezing a little extra cash for their country. I wouldn't call some much needed investment into any area of the UK that benefits all the citizens there a waste. No one bats an eye when Scotland demands.

They don't indeed. Throwing their toys out of the pram again - as they were screaming with glee when they thought a deal wouldn't happen. They got it wrong again.

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by Alf

Should have given May a majority, and this wouldn't be happening.

That's what was best for the country, going into the EU negotiations


But people voted tribally and not with their heads.



I'm not blaming anyone for how they voted, just giving you a reason for the current situation.

So you believe those who'd used their brains and not tribal instincts would of voted Conservative. Please explain why? what are the Cons offering the nation it shackles?

It really is time we heard an answer to the above question because there is little to no talk on here about Tory government achievements.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

So you believe those who'd used their brains and not tribal instincts would of voted Conservative. Please explain why? what are the Cons offering the nation it shackles?

It really is time we heard an answer to the above question because there is little to no talk on here about Tory government achievements.

lol lowest unemployment rate in decades...more jobs created than the rest of europe put together in their 7 years in charge, deficit reduction....cleaned up the hospitals no more mrsa....strengthened the ombudsman and complaints procedures within hospitals to limit public sector cover ups...reduced tax for the poorest workers...gdp increase...democratic vote on europe....tightening up on anti terror laws at the borders....put corrupt bankers in jail unlike labour...fairer cap on benefits of £25,000 ...all that after taking over a bankrupted nation..granted theres lots of cock ups to say the least but thats some massive achievements after labours disasters

[Alf]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

So you believe those who'd used their brains and not tribal instincts would of voted Conservative. Please explain why? what are the Cons offering the nation it shackles?

It really is time we heard an answer to the above question because there is little to no talk on here about Tory government achievements.

This was an election to see who the people wanted, to lead us in carrying out what the country voted for last June.

May made her point clear, "out means out" "No deal is better than a bad deal"

Corbyn didn't even want to talk about it.


Don't get me wrong, May played a stinker. Until her shocking manifesto came out, she had a massive landslide. After those manifestos came out, people forgot about what was the point of the election, and went back to their tribes.

May probably shouldn't have even called an election. That and the shocking manifesto, definitely makes me wonder what her motives were.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by jet

I am not okay with any kind of terrorism or murder. I was pointing out the reason why the DUP may have had tenuous links to paramilitaries in the past. The other side in any conflict is always going to bite back with some support, it happens the world over as you know very well, it's not right but its understandable. They have also condemned all terrorism many times over and the main party leaders have no links to or support any terrorist organisations whatsoever that I have ever heard of.
If there had been no IRA campaign there would have been no paramilitaries in the first place.
You don't appear to have any compassion for the destruction and pain the IRA caused to N.I citizens, myself included. All you seem to care about is defending Corbyn. Do you agree with his support of the IRA? I don't believe I have seen you condemn it, though I could be mistaken.

You're happy enough to bash Jeremy Corbyn for having tenuous links but you aren't going to do the same for the DUP for having solidified links to terrorism? You are jumping through a lot of hoops to try to justify what is a hypocritical attitude.

If there was any real proof of Corbyn having a sympathetic attitude towards the IRA then he simply would not be in the position he is in, too many people oppose him for him to not be taken down by such accusations if they were true. The fat that he is still in a position of power after all the accusations speaks more for his innocence than his guilt.

Originally Posted by Brillopad

So you're okay with inferring people are terrorist sympathisers when it suits after throwing such allegations my way in other threads. Either blatant hypocrisy or you having no self-awareness whatsoever.

Reading is important Brillo, you need to stop pretending people have written what you wanted them to write and comment on what they actually said. You can't keep trying to drag people for imaginary comments that you have made up.

Jet is happy enough to slate one party with links to terrorism because of their alleged links to JC but they aren't doing the same to another party with similar links because they oppose JC. I'm not calling Jet a terrorist sympathiser, i'm calling them a hypocrite.

Honestly, this should have been obvious if you actually bothered to read what I said.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

You're happy enough to bash Jeremy Corbyn for having tenuous links but you aren't going to do the same for the DUP for having solidified links to terrorism? You are jumping through a lot of hoops to try to justify what is a hypocritical attitude.

If there was any real proof of Corbyn having a sympathetic attitude towards the IRA then he simply would not be in the position he is in, too many people oppose him for him to not be taken down by such accusations if they were true. The fat that he is still in a position of power after all the accusations speaks more for his innocence than his guilt.



Reading is important Brillo, you need to stop pretending people have written what you wanted them to write and comment on what they actually said. You can't keep trying to drag people for imaginary comments that you have made up.

Jet is happy enough to slate one party with links to terrorism because of their alleged links to JC but they aren't doing the same to another party with similar links because they oppose JC. I'm not calling Jet a terrorist sympathiser, i'm calling them a hypocrite.

Honestly, this should have been obvious if you actually bothered to read what I said.

hes failed to denounce the IRA and Hammas and defied all anti terror laws...the man will not protect his own country

[jet]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

You're happy enough to bash Jeremy Corbyn for having tenuous links but you aren't going to do the same for the DUP for having solidified links to terrorism? You are jumping through a lot of hoops to try to justify what is a hypocritical attitude.

If there was any real proof of Corbyn having a sympathetic attitude towards the IRA then he simply would not be in the position he is in, too many people oppose him for him to not be taken down by such accusations if they were true. The fat that he is still in a position of power after all the accusations speaks more for his innocence than his guilt.



Reading is important Brillo, you need to stop pretending people have written what you wanted them to write and comment on what they actually said. You can't keep trying to drag people for imaginary comments that you have made up.

Jet is happy enough to slate one party with links to terrorism because of their alleged links to JC but they aren't doing the same to another party with similar links because they oppose JC. I'm not calling Jet a terrorist sympathiser, i'm calling them a hypocrite.

Honestly, this should have been obvious if you actually bothered to read what I said.

You really are woefully misinformed about the complicated politics of N.Ireland. I never thought I'd see the day when I would be defending the DUP, but so many misconceptions have been bandied about to do with the N.Ireland troubles and the parties that I do a double take on a regular basis.

I will quote MTVN from earlier who does understand N.Ireland politics and include a link also posted that may help you to be more informed:

Sinn Fein were the official political party of the IRA. The DUP are not and never have been the official political party of any loyalist paramilitary and the DUP today is a far different beast to the DUP in its early days under Ian Paisley. If they have some history with ex-loyalist terrorists that is because it is impossible to be involved in Northern Irish politics and be wholly cut off from the violence that existed there for years and years.

https://capx.co/criticism-of-the-dup...ght-hypocrisy/


The IRA/Sinn Fein connection was a whole different beast to any Loyalist Para/DUP connection. I have already said I oppose ALL terrorism but you chose to ignore that, just as you chose to ignore the fact that Corbyn was well known as an IRA sympathiser and supporter in N.Ireland as far back as the 70's, before he became an MP. Tenuous links my ass. You think you know better than people who lived here and experienced the Troubles from beginning to end.

Just as you chose to ignore serious commentators on TV mentioning his past IRA links and the numerous articles detailing his involvement...and tell me this - why hasn't he sued any of them if they are ALL made up?
Answer: He dare not.
I have no interest whatsoever in the DUP opposing Corbyn. I have no affiliation with either UK Conservatives or Labour, or the DUP either, so that doesn't come into it with me personally. I always voted SDLP, the Labour equivalent in N.Ireland.
Why have the accusations not taken him down? Because either his supporters are too enamoured of him to give a **** or they refuse to believe it. Just like you in fact.

But by all means keep living in your la la land of denial. You wouldn't want reality to get in the way of your Corbyn worship.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

You're happy enough to bash Jeremy Corbyn for having tenuous links but you aren't going to do the same for the DUP for having solidified links to terrorism? You are jumping through a lot of hoops to try to justify what is a hypocritical attitude.

If there was any real proof of Corbyn having a sympathetic attitude towards the IRA then he simply would not be in the position he is in, too many people oppose him for him to not be taken down by such accusations if they were true. The fat that he is still in a position of power after all the accusations speaks more for his innocence than his guilt.



Reading is important Brillo, you need to stop pretending people have written what you wanted them to write and comment on what they actually said. You can't keep trying to drag people for imaginary comments that you have made up.

Jet is happy enough to slate one party with links to terrorism because of their alleged links to JC but they aren't doing the same to another party with similar links because they oppose JC. I'm not calling Jet a terrorist sympathiser, i'm calling them a hypocrite.

Honestly, this should have been obvious if you actually bothered to read what I said.

That works both ways. You read what you wanted to into my posts. At no point did I call you a terrorist sympathiser. I simply pointed out when you and others supported JC despite his dubious history and links with terrorists yet were quick to accuse the DUC of being terrorists and those supporting the Tory/DUC alliance as terrorist sympathisers.

At the end of the day they are both political parties - what is the point in allowing people to form political parties , allegedly in the name of achieving peace, if you don't want to allow them the same rights as other political parties such as forming an alliance with the government.

I wonder if you would have had the same issues with Sinn Fein forming an alliance with Labour to get them in.

Hypocrisy!

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

That works both ways. You read what you wanted to into my posts. At no point did I call you a terrorist sympathiser. I simply pointed out when you and others supported JC despite his dubious history and links with terrorists yet were quick to accuse the DUC of being terrorists and those supporting the Tory/DUC alliance as terrorist sympathisers.

At the end of the day they are both political parties - what is the point in allowing people to form political parties , allegedly in the name of achieving peace, if you don't want to allow them the same rights as other political parties such as forming an alliance with the government.

I wonder if you would have had the same issues with Sinn Fein forming an alliance with Labour to get them in.

Hypocrisy!

So you don't think there is an issue with the DUP or Sin Fein then... So what was the problem in the lead up to the election, why was Corbyn lambasted for associating with Sin Fein?

Try to maintain focus on what is actually happening, your hypotheticals are getting very boring, The public are being held to ransom on behalf of NI for the sake of 10 votes..... they were essentially bought. No word about that: :/

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

That works both ways. You read what you wanted to into my posts. At no point did I call you a terrorist sympathiser. I simply pointed out when you and others supported JC despite his dubious history and links with terrorists yet were quick to accuse the DUC of being terrorists and those supporting the Tory/DUC alliance as terrorist sympathisers.

Well now you're just starting to sound like a bit of a quack.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by jet

You really are woefully misinformed about the complicated politics of N.Ireland. I never thought I'd see the day when I would be defending the DUP, but so many misconceptions have been bandied about to do with the N.Ireland troubles and the parties that I do a double take on a regular basis.

I will quote MTVN from earlier who does understand N.Ireland politics and include a link also posted that may help you to be more informed:



https://capx.co/criticism-of-the-dup...ght-hypocrisy/


The IRA/Sinn Fein connection was a whole different beast to any Loyalist Para/DUP connection. I have already said I oppose ALL terrorism but you chose to ignore that, just as you chose to ignore the fact that Corbyn was well known as an IRA sympathiser and supporter in N.Ireland as far back as the 70's, before he became an MP. Tenuous links my ass. You think you know better than people who lived here and experienced the Troubles from beginning to end.

Just as you chose to ignore serious commentators on TV mentioning his past IRA links and the numerous articles detailing his involvement...and tell me this - why hasn't he sued any of them if they are ALL made up?
Answer: He dare not.
I have no interest whatsoever in the DUP opposing Corbyn. I have no affiliation with either UK Conservatives or Labour, or the DUP either, so that doesn't come into it with me personally. I always voted SDLP, the Labour equivalent in N.Ireland.
Why have the accusations not taken him down? Because either his supporters are too enamoured of him to give a **** or they refuse to believe it. Just like you in fact.

But by all means keep living in your la la land of denial. You wouldn't want reality to get in the way of your Corbyn worship.

You're still hypocritical for treating TENUOUS links as gospel while ignoring the DUP links. Also drop the insults.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

That works both ways. You read what you wanted to into my posts. At no point did I call you a terrorist sympathiser. I simply pointed out when you and others supported JC despite his dubious history and links with terrorists yet were quick to accuse the DUC of being terrorists and those supporting the Tory/DUC alliance as terrorist sympathisers.

At the end of the day they are both political parties - what is the point in allowing people to form political parties , allegedly in the name of achieving peace, if you don't want to allow them the same rights as other political parties such as forming an alliance with the government.

I wonder if you would have had the same issues with Sinn Fein forming an alliance with Labour to get them in.

Hypocrisy!

It's honestly hilarious that, despite being told about it multiple times, you still subconciously go to the 'I know you are but what am I?' argument every time someone catches you out.

It makes no sense to make out that I read what I want into your posts, I comment on what you actually write then you just try to backpedal and project your own issues onto other people.

You did suggest on multiple occasions that people who didn't support your views likely had sympathies for terrorism, don't backpedal because your accusations in those threads were there for everyone to see.

If these JC links are true then HOW is he still in power? I've asked this question multiple times and his haters have not been able to answer. There's too many powerful people opposing him for him to stay in power if he did have terrorist sympathies. Like I said before, his continued presence is indicative of his innocence rather than his guilt.

As for the bolded point, this is a prime example of what I was saying about you replying to what you imagined I've said rather than what I actually said. I dislike the coalition of chaos but I've never once said that it shouldn't be allowed to happen. I have a negative opinion on it, especially since it's come about as a result of a bribe but I've never been opposed to the rights of the parties to make it happen. Negative and opposite opinions are allowed, Brillo.

In fact I kind of want the Coalition of Chaos to go ahead, it'll be fun to watch people who voted Tory realise over the course of this term how badly they ****ed up. 'I told you so' shall be my mantra.

I'd be opposed to a Sinn Fein deal but it would never happen, why allign with an extremist party when it would be both easier and safer to form a coalition with the SNP or the Lib Dems? The Tory deal came out of desperation because the DUP were the only party willing to team up with them, Labour would not have that issue.

[jet]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

You're still hypocritical for treating TENUOUS links as gospel while ignoring the DUP links. Also drop the insults.

I will repeat:

Corbyn was well known as an IRA sympathiser and supporter in N.Ireland as far back as the 70's, before he became an MP. Tenuous links my ass. You think you know better than people who lived here and experienced the Troubles from beginning to end.

You are outright calling me a liar.

...and how am I ignoring DUP links with terrorists when I posted an informative quote and article relating to them?
I don't give a **** about the DUP. None of them may become the next UK Prime Minister, Corbyn, with his fascination for his terrorist pals, possibly could.


BTW, Why do you think he hasn't sued? Why do you think he refuses to denounce the IRA?

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by jet

I will repeat:

You are outright calling me a liar.

...and how am I ignoring DUP links with terrorists when I posted an informative quote and article relating to them?
I don't give a **** about the DUP. None of them may become the next UK Prime Minister, Corbyn, with his fascination for his terrorist pals, possibly could.


BTW, Why do you think he hasn't sued? Why do you think he refuses to denounce the IRA?

Again, you are dodging the question, why is he still in power when, if there is any real evidence of this, his opposition could destroy him overnight? Why haven't they acted on what should be a smoking gun?

It makes ZERO sense that he's still in power if what he has allegedly done is true. What makes more sense is that everything has been overblown and his opposition would rather believe in the fairy tale than the truth since he simply wouldn't be where he is if the accusations had any merit.

[LeatherTrumpet]

Never mind the Brexit negotiations did the DUP just pull off the best bit of negotiation in UK political history?

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

Never mind the Brexit negotiations did the DUP just pull off the best bit of negotiation in UK political history?

Nah. They could have held out for more, and May was always going to give them whatever they wanted.

[jet]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Again, you are dodging the question, why is he still in power when, if there is any real evidence of this, his opposition could destroy him overnight? Why haven't they acted on what should be a smoking gun?

It makes ZERO sense that he's still in power if what he has allegedly done is true. What makes more sense is that everything has been overblown and his opposition would rather believe in the fairy tale than the truth since he simply wouldn't be where he is if the accusations had any merit.

Once again you are calling me a liar.

....and I asked you 2 questions and you dodged both of them.

Why has he still any power? There could be many reasons. Maybe it's because there has been a peace process - The Labour gov. sneakily sent amnesty letters to IRA killers on the run - murderers were released from prison agreed by all parties - Sinn Fein are a legit political party even though it has past killers still in its ranks so....

....Why would the opposition want to bring up Corbyns links of years ago when both governments agreed to let actual killers go free ?
Would bringing it all up affect the peace process and the sensitive situation in N.Ireland? Or maybe they know that his supporters just won't care? Or they just don't care themselves? (Though some of them do as they have brought up his links and condemned him on TV.)
And what is this 'smoking gun' you speak of? There has been plenty of articles and mentions on news programmes of his activities but it's obvious that it doesn't matter to many, (look at how many on here don't care or refuse to believe it) so what would be the point? They'd just root for him all the more.

He didn't kill anyone outright himself. It's a moral issue and its down to the conscience of each individual whether or not to admire and root for a man who was personally great pals with and a supporter of the killers of many innocent woman and children.

[Alf]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

Never mind the Brexit negotiations did the DUP just pull off the best bit of negotiation in UK political history?

It's a great deal all round, not just for the DUP. A billion is a great deal to keep Stalin (I mean Corbyn) out of office.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Alf

It's a great deal all round, not just for the DUP. A billion is a great deal to keep Stalin (I mean Corbyn) out of office.

I love how people are still desperately trying to twist all of this into a great achievement for the Tories, when the fact still stands that they would still be in a MUCH better position had they simply not called an election in the first place

[Alf]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I love how people are still desperately trying to twist all of this into a great achievement for the Tories, when the fact still stands that they would still be in a MUCH better position had they simply not called an election in the first place

But we can't live our lives by if's and buts. Was done is done and we have to crack on.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Alf

But we can't live our lives by if's and buts. Was done is done and we have to crack on.

We can't live life pretending that failures were achievements, either, though... or we run the risk of never learning from those failures. The Tories took a massive risk with this election and their gamble failed. The situation they have now with the DUP is not a good one, for anyone except the DUP, including the Tories. Not by any stretch of the imagination. Is it a better situation for the Tories / Tory supporters than Labour getting into power? Sure. But "better" doesn't necessarily mean "good". Getting chlamydia is "better" than getting syphilis... but no one's throwing a congratulations party for it.

[jet]

Originally Posted by Alf

It's a great deal all round, not just for the DUP. A billion is a great deal to keep Stalin (I mean Corbyn) out of office.

it sure is. And to think that billion is going to the place which his IRA pals bombed the hell out of while he supported them. He must be fuming. Oh, the irony.

[jet]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

We can't live life pretending that failures were achievements, either, though... or we run the risk of never learning from those failures. The Tories took a massive risk with this election and their gamble failed. The situation they have now with the DUP is not a good one, for anyone except the DUP, including the Tories. Not by any stretch of the imagination. Is it a better situation for the Tories / Tory supporters than Labour getting into power? Sure. But "better" doesn't necessarily mean "good". Getting chlamydia is "better" than getting syphilis... but no one's throwing a congratulations party for it.

....and the whole of N.Ireland.

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

You're happy enough to bash Jeremy Corbyn for having tenuous links but you aren't going to do the same for the DUP for having solidified links to terrorism? You are jumping through a lot of hoops to try to justify what is a hypocritical attitude.

If there was any real proof of Corbyn having a sympathetic attitude towards the IRA then he simply would not be in the position he is in, too many people oppose him for him to not be taken down by such accusations if they were true. The fat that he is still in a position of power after all the accusations speaks more for his innocence than his guilt.



Reading is important Brillo, you need to stop pretending people have written what you wanted them to write and comment on what they actually said. You can't keep trying to drag people for imaginary comments that you have made up.

Jet is happy enough to slate one party with links to terrorism because of their alleged links to JC but they aren't doing the same to another party with similar links because they oppose JC. I'm not calling Jet a terrorist sympathiser, i'm calling them a hypocrite.

Honestly, this should have been obvious if you actually bothered to read what I said.

You're selective reading again. You didn't get any of the heartfelt pain in Jet's post at all did you? You're pontificating about a very difficult situation that people have lived in a very painful way and been torn apart by.

[Vicky.]

I find it amusing (in a sad way) that theres 'no magic money tree' that could give nurses a payrise so they don't need to use foodbanks, but there is a magic money tree that created 1b to keep May in power