[DemolitionRed]

I never get a black cap in London as they are too expensive but I do sympathise with all London cabbies. I just looked up how much it would cost me to become a licenced London taxi driver. Just to get a TFL licence would set me back nearly £900 but that wouldn't include the cost of an enhanced DBS and a full medical.

Before I can get my TFL I need to pass a London knowledge test, both written and an appearance exam is required. Recommended study time for these exams is 4 years. I also have to have something called a character check.

Plates are often only available on the black market and can fetch anything up to 20k but no worries, I can hire a plate for £100 to £150 a week. Even if I take the lower end of that, I have to pay out £433 a month plus the running costs of my car and I've taken 4 years to get to the point of earning money.

Blow that. I can go to Uber and register online and be up and running without any checks. I've got a sat nav so who cares about road knowledge and I don't have to do any of the business side of things because Uber will just pay money into my account at the end of each week.

As far as health and safety is concerned, I'm not sure how they managed to slip through the net. Perhaps its because they aren't allowed to give loan under 18s a lift?

[Withano]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

You might but if you had daughters you might not

If those were the only 2 choices available I would?.. I'm not sure what you're implying?

[Amy Jade]

This is such a poor decision. I use Uber a lot when I go to London and me and my friends go about 10 times a year, usually to concerts

We are all teenagers, we can't afford black cabs so as per this decision after we get off the tube we are pretty much being forced to walk to our hotel which can be quite far away. I am gutted they're doing this.

[LeatherTrumpet]

Originally Posted by Withano

If those were the only 2 choices available I would?.. I'm not sure what you're implying?

Uber London ban: The scandals that brought down the ride-hailing app

Sexual assault scandals and failure to vet drivers were major areas of concern, say Transport for London

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a7961236.html

Freedom of Information data obtained by The Sun last year showed that the Metropolitan Police investigated 32 drivers for rape or sexual assault of a passenger between May 2015 and May 2016.

[Withano]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

Uber London ban: The scandals that brought down the ride-hailing app

Sexual assault scandals and failure to vet drivers were major areas of concern, say Transport for London

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a7961236.html

Freedom of Information data obtained by The Sun last year showed that the Metropolitan Police investigated 32 drivers for rape or sexual assault of a passenger between May 2015 and May 2016.

Why would me being a parent increase my chances of being sexually assaulted?

[Amy Jade]

To be completely honest you are at more risk of being raped by having to walk through the streets where any creep could be roaming around the next corner than you are getting in an uber where you are given the drivers details

[LeatherTrumpet]

Originally Posted by Amy Jade

To be completely honest you are at more risk of being raped by having to walk through the streets where any creep could be roaming around the next corner than you are getting in an uber where you are given the drivers details

Late at night perhaps but then no women should be walking about London late at night alone

[Amy Jade]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

Late at night perhaps but then no women should be walking about London late at night alone

We might have to if Uber goes. We can't afford black cabs.

[LeatherTrumpet]

Originally Posted by Amy Jade

We might have to if Uber goes. We can't afford black cabs.

Stay at home and save

[Nick.]

Angie Bowie fuming?

[Vicky.]

I have never used uber. Seen them about a few times though. Shame so many jobs are to be axed though. Especially at the moment when jobs are scarce and people are blamed/shamed for their own unemployment no matter the reasons...

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

Isn't there at least one rape a week by Uber drivers? Whether or not it's right for TFL to rescind their license, Uber should have something in place to vet its drivers.

Where does that come from? And that sounds about in keeping with the UK population and rapes/sexual assaults anyway. I checked up on this just out of curiosity when I saw this quote, and the results are shocking. Utterly awful.

Approximately 85,000 women and 12,000 men are raped in England and Wales alone every year; that's roughly 11 rapes (of adults alone) every hour. These figures include assaults by penetration and attempts.
Nearly half a million adults are sexually assaulted in England and Wales each year

https://rapecrisis.org.uk/statistics.php

So uber employs 40k people. And there is one rape per week. So 52 a year.

The UK population is 66m ish. And there are 100k rapes per year.


Utterly pointless post really. But the rape stats shocked me so much. Sexual assault at 500k a year too. Jesus.

Edited to add...

Spoiler:

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Freedom of Information data obtained by The Sun last year showed that the Metropolitan Police investigated 32 drivers for rape or sexual assault of a passenger between May 2015 and May 2016.

OK using these new stats of 32 per year (AND it being sexual assault rather than rape) rather than 52... Uber drivers are actually considerably safer than the general population. By a long shot.

[Kizzy]

in a 12 month period involving uber drivers only 32 is quite considerable, is pointless quoting stats the national average is irrelevant.

[Smithy]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

Late at night perhaps but then no women should be walking about London late at night alone

Why

[Oliver_W]

To be fair I rarely feel safe in London at night, if I have to go somewhere more than a stone's throw from a tube station or a busy area, I bring, something

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

in a 12 month period involving uber drivers only 32 is quite considerable, is pointless quoting stats the national average is irrelevant.

Ok lets go with only taxi drivers. Licensed ones.

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

good news for the black cabs and their trained, safe and vetted drivers

Really? You would think so, but no.

Crunching some numbers again, since I am now in the mood.

https://www.gov.uk/government/statis...s-england-2015

84770 licensed taxi drivers in London

(35% of the total number of taxis in UK, which is 242,200)

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/crim...-a3226396.html

Enhanced DBS checks are carried out on drivers every three years when they renew their taxi or private hire driver's licence, and every individual's fitness to become a licensed taxi or private hire driver is considered on a case-by-case basis.

A separate FOI revealed that in 2014/2015, a staggering 141 drivers were named as suspects in sex offences.

These included 31 in cases of rape, and 110 for other sexual assaults.

Now, its important to note here that some of this data is...out of date as I couldn't find this years stats. Ie. These stats on rape and such are from 2014/2015/2016. Uber only fairly recently got to 40k drivers. But for the sake of this, we will pretend they always had the 40k drivers. The number of drivers is not really too relevant when looking at stuff like this...its the ratios.

So uber 32 in a year from 40k drivers.
Licensed cabs 141 a year from 85k drivers.

As number of drivers is over double that of uber, its only fair to divide the number of attacks to be comparing like with like. So say 70 attacks from 42.5k drivers. Take off a further 10% of attacks, simply as I do not want people to be all like (omg but you have more attacks by licensed safe people because there are 2.5k more of them in the stats). 10% off 70, leaves 63. 10% off 42.5k leaves 38,425 drivers. Which leaves us with

So uber 32 in a year
'Licensed cabs' 63 in a year. Nearly double.

Clearly more attacks among these 'safe' licensed cabs eh...

--

If we assume that uber were included in these figures already, its even worse. So take off 40k uber drivers off for 'licensed cabs' leaving 45k. Also take off the confirmed reports for uber drivers. 109 attacks left.

109 rapes or sexual assaults between 45k 'safe and vetted' drivers.
V
32 rapes or sexual assaults between 40k 'dangerous' uber drivers.


Whichever way you crunch it, uber seem to be considerably more safe.


Any amount of sexual assault or rape among any amount of drivers is disgusting. I am not defending these vile people who committed these acts at all. Just proving a point that I didn't really need to prove but fancied messing about with as I am slightly high on my pain meds

[Kizzy]

Were the assaults as quoted in the article specific to London though and the stats you have national? That might account for it.

That said I guess people who are vetted can go on to offend as opportunists, say with a vulnerable female, however to not vet the drivers at all is a dereliction of your responsibility as a responsible employer flouting guidelines on safeguarding.
That remains unchanged regardless.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Were the assaults as quoted in the article specific to London though and the stats you have national? That might account for it.

That said I guess people who are vetted can go on to offend as opportunists, say with a vulnerable female, however to not vet the drivers at all is a dereliction of your responsibility as a responsible employer flouting guidelines on safeguarding.
That remains unchanged regardless.

Nope, specific to London.

[Kizzy]

Why is it so hard for them to just comply?... Do your checks and operate, if you don't you will cease to have licences granted.
Every other company in the UK has regulatory or safeguarding criteria, why are uber different?



Uber has responded to Transport for London's announcement that it will not renew the company's licence to operate in the UK capital.

In a statement, Uber said that banning its operations in London would, "show the world that, far from being open, London is closed to innovative companies who bring choice to consumers.” Uber vowed to challenge the ruling. It has 21 days to lodge an appeal.



http://www.independent.co.uk/news/bu...-a7960971.html

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Why is it so hard for them to just comply?... Do your checks and operate, if you don't you will cease to have licences granted.
Every other company in the UK has regulatory or safeguarding criteria, why are uber different?



Uber has responded to Transport for London's announcement that it will not renew the company's licence to operate in the UK capital.

In a statement, Uber said that banning its operations in London would, "show the world that, far from being open, London is closed to innovative companies who bring choice to consumers.” Uber vowed to challenge the ruling. It has 21 days to lodge an appeal.



http://www.independent.co.uk/news/bu...-a7960971.html

Well yes, they could do that of course

Seems the safety thing has been blown WAY out of proportion though and it also seems that TFL are* at fault for the number of attacks by licensed drivers in the first place.

*partly at fault, as the main blame lies with the rapist/person who assaulted the victims of course

Ms Clarkson, who has been a black cab driver for 30 years and lives in Chislehurst, has worked with organisations including the Suzy Lamplugh Trust in a bid to increase women's safety when travelling in cabs.

She told the Standard: "These figures are absolutely appalling, the blame lies squarely at TfL's door.

"For every hour that TfL's offices were open at one point they were handing out one licence every three minutes and 40 seconds - it's impossible to do the checks and balances."

Glen Alutto, a black cab driver for 17 years, also said that licensing of drivers was too lax.

Mr Alutto, 47, who lives in Enfield, told the Standard: "I'm shocked by these figures, but not surprised.

"They're licensing 700 private hire drivers a week.

"It's no longer news when you see that one of them has crashed or driven the wrong way down a street.

Maybe TFL are a bit pissed off that Uber seem better at vetting drivers than they are? Given whatever uber do do to weed out the offenders...they seem to be doing so better than TFL with their checks

[GiRTh]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Ok lets go with only taxi drivers. Licensed ones.




Really? You would think so, but no.

Crunching some numbers again, since I am now in the mood.

https://www.gov.uk/government/statis...s-england-2015

84770 licensed taxi drivers in London

(35% of the total number of taxis in UK, which is 242,200)

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/crim...-a3226396.html



Now, its important to note here that some of this data is...out of date as I couldn't find this years stats. Ie. These stats on rape and such are from 2014/2015/2016. Uber only fairly recently got to 40k drivers. But for the sake of this, we will pretend they always had the 40k drivers. The number of drivers is not really too relevant when looking at stuff like this...its the ratios.

So uber 32 in a year from 40k drivers.
Licensed cabs 141 a year from 85k drivers.

As number of drivers is over double that of uber, its only fair to divide the number of attacks to be comparing like with like. So say 70 attacks from 42.5k drivers. Take off a further 10% of attacks, simply as I do not want people to be all like (omg but you have more attacks by licensed safe people because there are 2.5k more of them in the stats). 10% off 70, leaves 63. 10% off 42.5k leaves 38,425 drivers. Which leaves us with

So uber 32 in a year
'Licensed cabs' 63 in a year. Nearly double.

Clearly more attacks among these 'safe' licensed cabs eh...

--

If we assume that uber were included in these figures already, its even worse. So take off 40k uber drivers off for 'licensed cabs' leaving 45k. Also take off the confirmed reports for uber drivers. 109 attacks left.

109 rapes or sexual assaults between 45k 'safe and vetted' drivers.
V
32 rapes or sexual assaults between 40k 'dangerous' uber drivers.


Whichever way you crunch it, uber seem to be considerably more safe.


Any amount of sexual assault or rape among any amount of drivers is disgusting. I am not defending these vile people who committed these acts at all. Just proving a point that I didn't really need to prove but fancied messing about with as I am slightly high on my pain meds

Excellent analysis Vicky

I thought this opinion piece was quite interesting

Opinion: London’s Uber ban isn’t about safety, it’s about protecting unions

There are more sexual assaults in the Underground than in Uber cars

London’s Uber ban isn’t about safety, it’s about protecting unions

[Kizzy]

The fact is vetting and barring is used for a reason and regardless of whether or not it prevents attacks it prevents known predators from using the profession to trawl for victims.

How many licences are issued is not the problem, drivers are needed obviously... safe drivers.

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by GiRTh

Opinion: London’s Uber ban isn’t about safety, it’s about protecting unions

No kidding. Which party is Kahn from?

[GiRTh]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

No kidding. Which party is Kahn from?

Labour, last time I looked

[Underscore]

****ing pisstake.

The black cabbie drivers shouldn't be charging extortionate prices

A cab ride from Victoria to Waterloo, a journey of 2.5 miles, will cost the same as a ticket from London Gatwick to Rome Fiumincino booked 3 months in advance, or 22 pounds. They deserve to die out since they cannot compete. I normally support some degree of higher pricing for self employed but in this case it's simply extortionate.

[Kizzy]

At the bottom of the article...

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