[Niamh.]

We were always at war with Eastasia.................

Why should the victims and witnesses of the Holocaust have to watch what they say for fear of being arrested?



We are making this public appeal out of our concern for the state of Polish-Jewish and Polish-Israeli relations. We call on all parties to exercise emotional restraint in the name of protecting the common good; the truth and the dialogue that has been fostered over the past quarter of a century. The Amended Act on the Institute of National Remembrance, passed by the Polish Sejm on 26 January to the next stage of legislation, introduces criminal penalties of up to three years’ imprisonment for “public and contrary-to-fact conduct that attributes responsibility or co-responsibility for Nazi crimes committed by the Third German Reich to the Polish nation or the Polish state”.

This unfortunate bill has made major news in Poland and internationally, raising logical, moral and legal concerns. Why must a discussion of historical facts involve courts and prosecutors? Why should the victims and witnesses of the Holocaust have to watch what they say for fear of being arrested, and will the testimony of a Jewish survivor who “feared Poles” be a punishable offence? Why must this be argued based on paragraphs from the criminal code and not through the merits of debate? Is this law intended to be symmetrical to the law forbidding Holocaust denial? And why are certain professions given a free pass – why are only academics and artists free from prosecution for voicing “anti-Polish” opinions? What about Journalists? Teachers? Where is the line between acceptable education and art and punishable journalism, and who would determine these undeniable “facts”?

The intention behind this bill was to defend the good name of Poland, that much is clear. When Poles hear the words “Polish camps”, they assume, often overreacting, that they are being accused of being responsible for Auschwitz (when Jan Karski wrote about “Polish camps” he was describing “camps located in Poland”). This bill goes further than that – it assumes the Poles’ complete innocence, framing them as the only guiltless nation in Europe. This is not the way to reclaim Poland’s collective dignity. All is not yet lost. Legislators still have a chance to reconsider and we urgently call on them to do so.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...y-of-holocaust

[bitontheslide]

Poland is an almighty mess right now with a very extreme government. One can only hope they get booted out soon

[y.winter]

Disgusting decision. I guess they haven't learned from their history. They have no shame.
My grandfather's parents, seven siblings, relatives and friends were all murdered in their concentration camps. Writing a stupid law won't change it.

[Livia]

It wasn't just Jews who died at the hands of the Nazis in Poland, around 80,000 non-Jewish Polish citizens were also murdered for a variety of reasons. Poles suffered terribly under the Nazis, in fact, the invasion of Poland was the reason GB entered WW2. But none of that alters the fact that some Poles joined in the torture and murder enthusiastically, and for their government to try to deny that should send a worrying message to Brussels. The Germans stood and accepted their part in the Holocaust. Time for Poland to do the same.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Livia

It wasn't just Jews who died at the hands of the Nazis in Poland, around 80,000 non-Jewish Polish citizens were also murdered for a variety of reasons. Poles suffered terribly under the Nazis, in fact, the invasion of Poland was the reason GB entered WW2. But none of that alters the fact that some Poles joined in the torture and murder enthusiastically, and for their government to try to deny that should send a worrying message to Brussels. The Germans stood and accepted their part in the Holocaust. Time for Poland to do the same.

Indeed; there were Nazi sympathisers in every Western nation who would have joined, and been happy to join, the Third Reich... including Britain and the US. Trying to rewrite history to pretend that all Nazis were German is really dangerous revisionism.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Indeed; there were Nazi sympathisers in every Western nation who would have joined, and been happy to join, the Third Reich... including Britain and the US. Trying to rewrite history to pretend that all Nazis were German is really dangerous revisionism.

All true... and I agree.

[jaxie]

I wonder why they feel rewriting history will make Poland have a better reputation. Surely this very act makes their reputation horribly sullied?

[Liberty4eva]

Here's an idea: why not pass a law that lets people say whatever they want to say about the Holocaust without fear of imprisonment?

Sounds pretty simple. Why do Europeans have to complicate so many things?

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Liberty4eva

Here's an idea: why not pass a law that lets people say whatever they want to say about the Holocaust without fear of imprisonment?

Sounds pretty simple. Why do Europeans have to complicate so many things?

We don't like liars. That's not what Freedom of Speech means.

[GoldHeart]

Originally Posted by Livia

We don't like liars. That's not what Freedom of Speech means.

Exactly you can't rewrite history .
Anyone who denies the severity of the haloucaust need to wake up and stop living in ignorance .

What I also hate are Nazi sympathising and those people are pointless even debating with .

[James]

I've been getting this advert on Youtube before videos.

Youtube video

When I saw it first - before the screen at the end came up - I actually thought it was an advert for a (kinda bad-taste) WW2 video game.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by GoldHeart

the haloucaust

The systematic persecution and destruction of Cypriot cheese?

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by James

When I saw it first - before the screen at the end came up - I actually thought it was an advert for a (kinda bad-taste) WW2 video game.

The graphics are TERRIBLE though. And they have no excuse... I mean, they have CD Projekt Red.

[Liberty4eva]

Originally Posted by GoldHeart

Exactly you can't rewrite history .
Anyone who denies the severity of the haloucaust need to wake up and stop living in ignorance .

What I also hate are Nazi sympathising and those people are pointless even debating with .

Actually, history is rewritten or revised all of the time as new information becomes available. The ignorant ones are the ones who assume we know all the details and allow no room for dissent.

[GoldHeart]

Originally Posted by Liberty4eva

Actually, history is rewritten or revised all of the time as new information becomes available. The ignorant ones are the ones who assume we know all the details and allow no room for dissent.

Finding out new information is different from lying and dismissing actual events & people involved .

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by James

I've been getting this advert on Youtube before videos.

Youtube video

When I saw it first - before the screen at the end came up - I actually thought it was an advert for a (kinda bad-taste) WW2 video game.

Are they saying they're for or against rewriting the past?

[y.winter]

Originally Posted by James

I've been getting this advert on Youtube before videos.

Youtube video

When I saw it first - before the screen at the end came up - I actually thought it was an advert for a (kinda bad-taste) WW2 video game.

Wow, they've just hit a new low.
Vile people

[parmnion]

Originally Posted by GoldHeart

Exactly you can't rewrite history .
Anyone who denies the severity of the haloucaust need to wake up and stop living in ignorance .

What I also hate are Nazi sympathising and those people are pointless even debating with .

There is a movement of polish youths who look down on their own past.

I am not sure of the details or anything but they despise thier history cause they see it as a weakness shown by thier peers.

[Liberty4eva]

Originally Posted by GoldHeart

Finding out new information is different from lying and dismissing actual events & people involved .

Details change all of the time as more information becomes available (even on the "Holocaust"). Just one example:
If you go to Auschwitz today you will discover that the official number of people that died there is 1 and a half million. But if you were to time travel back to 1990 and go to Auschwitz you would see the official number of dead is 4 million. Maybe it's me, but I think there is a big ****ing difference between 4 million and 1.5 million.

Please try to do a little more research and a little less virtue signalling.

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by Liberty4eva

Actually, history is rewritten or revised all of the time as new information becomes available. The ignorant ones are the ones who assume we know all the details and allow no room for dissent.

There's no new evidence that's come to light here though.

[GoldHeart]

Originally Posted by Mystic Mock

There's no new evidence that's come to light here though.

This is what I was thinking as well