[Livia]

Originally Posted by Amy Jade

Personally I would risk losing office and put the safety of others, including young children, first.

I understand guns are a big thing in America, I have been to Texas and saw people walking around supermarkets carrying guns but the laws need changing BADLY. I saw something on TV the other day and a 14 year old was refused alcohol, cigatettes and even scratch cards but allowed to buy a gun without a problem, that is insane to me. I don't believe arming teachers is the answer at all.

Oh yes, me too... but it's not hard to predict which way Trump will jump.

You can buy a gun at 18, you can't drink alcohol until you're 21. And I can't see what anyone wants with an automatic or semi automatic weapon unless you're up to no good or prone to showing off... and the Darwin Awards are packed with people showing off...

[LeatherTrumpet]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

It worked in Australia

Australia has 20 million people and is nothing at all like the USA in make-up history, politically or geograpically

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

Australia has 20 million people and is nothing at all like the USA in make-up history, politically or geograpically

Similarities are they had a gun problem, they banned guns and sorted it.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

Honestly, if they want to stop mass killings at schools etc having armed teachers or police/guards is the only realistic solution. We may say WTF over here, but banning guns wont solve anything in the USA, arming people that can protect the kids will

I sort of agree with this, I think it's too late for gun controls to curb school violence, because it's become a cultural phenomenon sadly. That is to say... at this point, the reason the US has a crazy number of school shootings, is that the US has a crazy number of school shootings. They need to tighten up their gun laws anyway, that's a given, but in terms of school violence... I think sadly, the kids who want to commit these acts would find other ways. It's become a deep rooted social psychology problem amoungst American teens. There are also so many illegal / unregistered weapons in the US already, that I think it would take decades from the point of a ban for it to be actually "difficult" to obtain one, especially with access to the darkweb etc.

That said, an outright ban on high powered / rapid firing weapons could in theory at least limit the number of casualties in each incident over time.

I sort of agree that in the short term, it seems like there needs to be solutions IN schools though. Though I would never advocate arming teachers / having guns IN the classroom. I mean honestly... teachers snap and hit kids sometimes... how long before a teacher with psychological problems flips under pressure and ends up shooting a pupil? Imagine the issues that would end up causing. Imagine then sending your kids to school knowing that their teacher is armed :/. It's not an environment that encourages learning, at all. So personally, my two solutions would be:

1) An armed security guard in the school, with their own secure office (otherwise they're just going to be the first one shot). More than one for larger schools maybe.

2) Secure doors on every classroom that deadbolt from the inside. This would surely limit casualties MASSIVELY if it was as-standard? As soon as a shot is fired, teacher deadbolts the classroom door, and no one is getting in.

[Livia]

MY fiance is from Texas, as some of you know... He doesn't think that the gun laws will ever be changed because it would be a virtually impossible task, and even if it was possible, would probably cause civil unrest. Arming teachers and bolting doors will teach everyone that the state cannot protect you from the bad guys, so you'll have to live in a state of lock-down. What a sad state of affairs...

[Tom4784]

The answer to America's mass shooting problem is not to throw more guns at it. If this came into effect how long would it be until it's a teacher that goes on a rampage?

It's simple really, ban assault rifles (No practical purpose other than to kill other people) and make the background and mental health checks more than just a formality they are now in states like Florida.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Livia

MY fiance is from Texas, as some of you know... He doesn't think that the gun laws will ever be changed because it would be a virtually impossible task, and even if it was possible, would probably cause civil unrest. Arming teachers and bolting doors will teach everyone that the state cannot protect you from the bad guys, so you'll have to live in a state of lock-down. What a sad state of affairs...

It seems to be going that way already though... a lot of states do these "armed attack drills", where they sound an alarm and everyone has "roles" assigned like where they're supposed to go and designated people to barricade doors. I mean WTF is that?? How utterly terrifying to have that as part of what constitutes a normal school routine. What a messed up learning environment .

I read a story earlier, some mum on facebook being "so proud" of her son because he had volunteered to be one of those who barricades the door at school, saying that "He would rather get killed saving his friends than live knowing that any of them had died". Which is a great attitude to have, and technically yes something to be proud of... except that a ten year old kid shouldn't even be having to think about those sorts of things!

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

The answer to America's mass shooting problem is not to throw more guns at it. If this came into effect how long would it be until it's a teacher that goes on a rampage?

Well yeah that was my thinking. Teachers sometimes will snap and punch a kid. Teachers sometimes abuse their pupils. How long before a teacher ends up shooting someone? And even without it going that far, I can DEFINITELY see teachers using the fact that they have a gun in their desk as an empty, yet still terrifying, threat.

[LeatherTrumpet]

If the pupils thought that the teacher was packing heat they may behave better

not me though, Id pack my own gun in my bag in case the teacher went rogue

or if people were bothering me

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Well yeah that was my thinking. Teachers sometimes will snap and punch a kid. Teachers sometimes abuse their pupils. How long before a teacher ends up shooting someone? And even without it going that far, I can DEFINITELY see teachers using the fact that they have a gun in their desk as an empty, yet still terrifying, threat.

Yeah, it's an insane thing to do really, all these pro gun people are wrapping themselves in knots offering up silly suggestions to take gun control off the table when proper gun control laws would not affect responsible owners anyway.

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Yeah, it's an insane thing to do really, all these pro gun people are wrapping themselves in knots offering up silly suggestions to take gun control off the table when proper gun control laws would not affect responsible owners anyway.

I think the argument is they wouldn't affect irresponsible owners anyway, with black market purchases...

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

I think the argument is they wouldn't affect irresponsible owners anyway, with black market purchases...

Which aren't all that common as they are made out to be, remember that almost all of these mass shootings are committed legally owned guns. Make it harder for the wrong people to buy guns and these Mass Shootings would stop happening because buying something off the Black Market isn't like popping into Asda for a loaf of bread, if you don't have the knowledge or the connections then you don't have the access to it.

The UK has an illegal gun trade but that doesn't mean we should take back gun laws and give everyone access to one just in case.

[LeatherTrumpet]

Go look at my thread about buying a semi auto rifle on facebook no questions asked

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

Go look at my thread about buying a semi auto rifle on facebook no questions asked

Regardless of that, it's not an argument to have them so readily available to anyone legally

[LeatherTrumpet]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Regardless of that, it's not an argument to have them so readily available to anyone legally

As i have said it would seem that most americans, or the majority think that the odd shooting every now and then in a country of 300m is a fair price to pay.

[thesheriff443]

I dont think you can prevent school shootings, having teachers with guns is a deterrent and could save life's by shooting the kid with a gun.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

As i have said it would seem that most americans, or the majority think that the odd shooting every now and then in a country of 300m is a fair price to pay.

Clearly the surviving victims of these shootings think otherwise

[LeatherTrumpet]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Clearly the surviving victims of these shootings think otherwise

yes as do lots of other people but thats now how it works in a democracy

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by thesheriff443

I dont think you can prevent school shootings, having teachers with guns is a deterrent and could save life's by shooting the kid with a gun.

The University of Sydney, in a 2016 study published in the Journal of the American Medical Association, found Australia hadn't experienced a fatal mass shooting — one in which five or more people are killed — since the 1996 shooting. In the 18 years prior, 1979-1996, there were 13 fatal mass shootings in Australia.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...did/340345002/

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

yes as do lots of other people but thats now how it works in a democracy

Those in favor of stricter gun legislation outnumber those opposed by a measure of more than two-to-one, according to the poll. Sixty-six percent of respondents said they would support more stringent laws, while just 31% said they would not. That’s the highest favorable percentage ever recorded by a Quinnipiac University National Poll, and a considerable increase from the 47% to 50% split measured in late 2015, according to an announcement from the school released Tuesday.

http://time.com/5167216/americans-gu...ort-poll-2018/

[montblanc]

yeah how about no

[thesheriff443]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

The University of Sydney, in a 2016 study published in the Journal of the American Medical Association, found Australia hadn't experienced a fatal mass shooting — one in which five or more people are killed — since the 1996 shooting. In the 18 years prior, 1979-1996, there were 13 fatal mass shootings in Australia.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...did/340345002/

But America was founded on the right to carry arms.

[LeatherTrumpet]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Those in favor of stricter gun legislation outnumber those opposed by a measure of more than two-to-one, according to the poll. Sixty-six percent of respondents said they would support more stringent laws, while just 31% said they would not. That’s the highest favorable percentage ever recorded by a Quinnipiac University National Poll, and a considerable increase from the 47% to 50% split measured in late 2015, according to an announcement from the school released Tuesday.

http://time.com/5167216/americans-gu...ort-poll-2018/

That is great to vote in a poll like that but its only their state legislators that can do anything about it

[montblanc]

Originally Posted by thesheriff443

But America was founded on the right to carry arms.

America was founded on a lot of terrible things

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by thesheriff443

But America was founded on the right to carry arms.

How is that an argument against whether gun laws would help against mass shootings? :/ There was no such thing as an assault rifle back when the USA was founded btw