[Maru]

Stephen Hawking says he knows what happened before the dawn of time
http://www.news.com.au/technology/sc...8b92b9b974010b

Stephen Hawking argues time did not begin with the Big Bang. It was just going in a different direction.
RENOWNED physicist Stephen Hawking says he knows what happened before the dawn of time. And it’s a mind-bending concept.

IT’s the biggest question in the universe.

What happened before the Big Bang?

Now world-famous physicist Steven Hawking says he has an answer.

“The boundary condition of the universe ... is that it has no boundary,” Hawking tells the National Geographic’s Star Talk show this weekend.

In other words, there is no time before time began as time was always there.

It was just different.

He tells physicist Neil deGrasse Tyson that amid the almost infinitely small quantum foam of the singularity before the Big Bang, time existed in a ‘bent’” state.

It was distorted along another dimension — always getting fractionally closer to, but never becoming, nothing.

So there never was a Big Bang that created something from nothing.

It’s just looks that way from our point of perspective.



“All the evidence seems to indicate, that the universe has not existed forever, but that it had a beginning, about 15 billion years ago,” Hawking says in one of his lectures.

“There must have been a beginning. Otherwise, the universe would be in a state of complete disorder by now, and everything would be at the same temperature. In an infinite and everlasting universe, every line of sight would end on the surface of a star. This would mean that the night sky would have been as bright as the surface of the Sun. The only way of avoiding this problem would be if, for some reason, the stars did not shine before a certain time.”

But things were different at the Big Bang.

“The density would have been infinite,” Hawking says.
“It would have been what is called, a singularity. At a singularity, all the laws of physics would have broken down. This means that the state of the universe, after the Big Bang, will not depend on anything that may have happened before, because the deterministic laws that govern the universe will break down in the Big Bang.”

This has long posed a serious problem for physics, he says.

“Since events before the Big Bang have no observational consequences, one may as well cut them out of the theory, and say that time began at the Big Bang. Events before the Big Bang, are simply not defined, because there’s no way one could measure what happened at them.”

But there are ways to figure out what came before, he says.

“Quantum theory introduces a new idea, that of imaginary time. Imaginary time may sound like science fiction, and it has been brought into Doctor Who. But nevertheless, it is a genuine scientific concept. One can picture it in the following way. One can think of ordinary, real, time as a horizontal line. On the left, one has the past, and on the right, the future. But there’s another kind of time in the vertical direction. This is called imaginary time, because it is not the kind of time we normally experience. But in a sense, it is just as real as what we call real time.”

This has enormous implications when it comes to the Big Bang.

“James Hartle of the University of California Santa Barbara, and I have proposed that space and imaginary time together, are indeed finite in extent, but without boundary. They would be like the surface of the Earth, but with two more dimensions. The surface of the Earth is finite in extent, but it doesn’t have any boundaries or edges. I have been around the world, and I didn’t fall off. “

There’s no raw physics that supports his idea. Yet.

But Hawking’s insight has proven right before.

What we do know is that when it comes to the Big Bang — and black holes — our understanding of physics breaks down.

The only certainty about the infinitesimally small quantum building blocks of our universe is that they are uncertain. Simply observing them can cause them to change. They can be in two places — or two states — at once.

They seem to be a physical embodiment of probability and potential: elements of reality that haven’t quite yet decided what they’re going to do.

While it dictates our lives, we still don’t know what time is. Or exactly where it comes from.

Whe know how it works. We know its effects.

It’s like gravity.

It doesn’t entirely seem to fit in the ‘big’ world of the physics we experience, nor the ‘weird’ world of the subatomic.

But, like the strange behaviour of quantum physics, perhaps time has a lot more left to tell.

[Tom4784]

Pfftt, that's nothing, LT actually lived through it.

[Marsh.]

before the Big Bang, time existed in a ‘bent’” state.

Not the gays taking over?

[parmnion]

If you believe its him...i think its a pre programmed voice...sh is just a plant.

[LeatherTrumpet]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Pfftt, that's nothing, LT actually lived through it.

I remember when the universe was fields as far as the eye can see

and you could leave your black hole open all night


and no, i dont mean a sleepover at Scott's

[thesheriff443]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

I remember when the universe was fields as far as the eye can see

and you could leave your black hole open all night


and no, i dont mean a sleepover at Scott's

Uranus

[Jamie89]

I find all this stuff really interesting, I got really interested in alternative dimension theories a while back and this sort of ties in with that I think, but personally I'm not convinced. I sort of came to the conclusion that I don't believe alternative dimensions can exist (or 1st/2nd/4th/5th etc dimensions), although I'm still open minded to it all. But I get the impression from what he's saying that you have to buy into that (although I've only had a quick read and I'm not going to pretend to understand it all )
I actually think concepts such as origin of time are things that are possibly beyond our understanding, like we're just not built to be able to understand it rather than it being something that we need to discover more about like with things involving physics. It's similar to how an ant could walk across an ipad, and understand that there is an object there, but have no comprehension of what it's function is and wouldn't understand even if someone/something were able to communicate it to the ant, we see that other creatures have limited understanding of things and see there world in ways that are unique to them and I think the same is probably true of us and there are many things we observe in the world that are beyond our potential for understanding, and the concept of time I think is one of them. I'm not sure if I'm making sense because I'm rushing but yeah it's very interesting and it's really impressive how he thinks about things. I'll read more about it when I have time ( )

[Mystic Mock]

It's a fascinating topic, I have got to say though that I'm not very knowledgeable on the subject to agree or disagree with him.

It is funny that I've just been reading Forces Of Nature book by Professor Brian Cox and then a thread on Science pops up on Astronomy.

[Northern Monkey]

Originally Posted by Jamie89

I find all this stuff really interesting, I got really interested in alternative dimension theories a while back and this sort of ties in with that I think, but personally I'm not convinced. I sort of came to the conclusion that I don't believe alternative dimensions can exist (or 1st/2nd/4th/5th etc dimensions), although I'm still open minded to it all. But I get the impression from what he's saying that you have to buy into that (although I've only had a quick read and I'm not going to pretend to understand it all )
I actually think concepts such as origin of time are things that are possibly beyond our understanding, like we're just not built to be able to understand it rather than it being something that we need to discover more about like with things involving physics. It's similar to how an ant could walk across an ipad, and understand that there is an object there, but have no comprehension of what it's function is and wouldn't understand even if someone/something were able to communicate it to the ant, we see that other creatures have limited understanding of things and see there world in ways that are unique to them and I think the same is probably true of us and there are many things we observe in the world that are beyond our potential for understanding, and the concept of time I think is one of them. I'm not sure if I'm making sense because I'm rushing but yeah it's very interesting and it's really impressive how he thinks about things. I'll read more about it when I have time ( )

I get what you’re saying.I’ve looked a little into it too but it’s mind boggling.
I think it’s possible that there are other dimensions.Many people think that space-time is the fourth dimension.
Like you say though.We can only perceive three dimensions.Like if you dropped a cube down into a 2D world then to the inhabitants it’d just be a square.

We need Quantum computers and AI to figure this stuff out.Oh a Stephen Hawking.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by thesheriff443

Uranus

What do the starship Enterprise and Dixel toilet paper have in common?

Spoiler:

They both circle Uranus looking for Klingons.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

I remember when the universe was fields as far as the eye can see

and you could leave your black hole open all night


and no, i dont mean a sleepover at Scott's

[Jamie89]

Originally Posted by Northern Monkey

I get what you’re saying.I’ve looked a little into it too but it’s mind boggling.
I think it’s possible that there are other dimensions.Many people think that space-time is the fourth dimension.
Like you say though.We can only perceive three dimensions.Like if you dropped a cube down into a 2D world then to the inhabitants it’d just be a square.

We need Quantum computers and AI to figure this stuff out.Oh a Stephen Hawking.

Yeah there's loads of different views on the 4th dimension, and I haven't really looked much into the space-time stuff, it's mainly the 'tesseract' type theories that I've read about, like the 4th dimension just being an expansion of the 3rd in a similar way to the 3rd being an expansion of the 2nd. There's a really interesting theory that's basically we exist within the 4th dimension but we're unable to have any perception of it, just as the 2nd dimension can't have any perception of us, because each dimension can only view the one beneath it. For example we view the world in 2 dimensions (and are just able to perceive 3 dimensions because of lighting/depth perception etc), and within a 2nd dimension any inhabitants would only be able to view things in 1 dimension (and then have a perception of their 2nd dimension from that). So a 4th dimensional being in our world would not only not be visible to us in the way it actually exists, but it would be able to see the world in true 3D, ie. view all around objects and from all different angles and see through them as well, all at the same time, from multiple different points in space. And objects would appear completely differently to how we see them, just as like you said our cube would appear completely differently to how it would to a 2nd dimensional being. And then you keep going up to higher and higher dimensions and realise our perception of the world might not even be close to how it really exists. It's fascinating to think about (even if I'm not convinced of it all).

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Jamie89

Yeah there's loads of different views on the 4th dimension, and I haven't really looked much into the space-time stuff, it's mainly the 'tesseract' type theories that I've read about, like the 4th dimension just being an expansion of the 3rd in a similar way to the 3rd being an expansion of the 2nd. There's a really interesting theory that's basically we exist within the 4th dimension but we're unable to have any perception of it, just as the 2nd dimension can't have any perception of us, because each dimension can only view the one beneath it. For example we view the world in 2 dimensions (and are just able to perceive 3 dimensions because of lighting/depth perception etc), and within a 2nd dimension any inhabitants would only be able to view things in 1 dimension (and then have a perception of their 2nd dimension from that). So a 4th dimensional being in our world would not only not be visible to us in the way it actually exists, but it would be able to see the world in true 3D, ie. view all around objects and from all different angles and see through them as well, all at the same time, from multiple different points in space. And objects would appear completely differently to how we see them, just as like you said our cube would appear completely differently to how it would to a 2nd dimensional being. And then you keep going up to higher and higher dimensions and realise our perception of the world might not even be close to how it really exists. It's fascinating to think about (even if I'm not convinced of it all).

This actually gave me a huge headache then made me go into a very thoughtful state for a little where apparently I looked like I was in a trance

I absolutely love stuff like this, but it does not half mess my head up

[Kizzy]

I know that physics is important but do you know what I don't care... I don't care about the dawn of time or what happened before it, I care about here and now.

[parmnion]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

I know that physics is important but do you know what I don't care... I don't care about the dawn of time or what happened before it, I care about here and now.

.

[Kizzy]

Mr Hawking use that big beautiful brain of yours to find something we can use, clean energy

[parmnion]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Mr Hawking use that big beautiful brain of yours to find something we can use, clean energy

Dont you find it strange that as soon as the west start disbelieving the church and god etc we get a....stooge in a wheelchair telling us otherwise...........just as all this terrorist for the holy whatever god starts to ramp up.....

[Kizzy]

No, he's not saying god created the universe or anything is he?

[parmnion]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

No, he's not saying god created the universe or anything is he?

Is he actually saying anything......
Sorry..but, come on.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

No, he's not saying god created the universe or anything is he?

No, he's an atheist.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Mr Hawking use that big beautiful brain of yours to find something we can use, clean energy

You never know, he may find 500 alternate cleaner universes for us to invade and take over.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

You never know, he may find 500 alternate cleaner universes for us to invade and take over.

lol

[Northern Monkey]

Originally Posted by Jamie89

Yeah there's loads of different views on the 4th dimension, and I haven't really looked much into the space-time stuff, it's mainly the 'tesseract' type theories that I've read about, like the 4th dimension just being an expansion of the 3rd in a similar way to the 3rd being an expansion of the 2nd. There's a really interesting theory that's basically we exist within the 4th dimension but we're unable to have any perception of it, just as the 2nd dimension can't have any perception of us, because each dimension can only view the one beneath it. For example we view the world in 2 dimensions (and are just able to perceive 3 dimensions because of lighting/depth perception etc), and within a 2nd dimension any inhabitants would only be able to view things in 1 dimension (and then have a perception of their 2nd dimension from that). So a 4th dimensional being in our world would not only not be visible to us in the way it actually exists, but it would be able to see the world in true 3D, ie. view all around objects and from all different angles and see through them as well, all at the same time, from multiple different points in space. And objects would appear completely differently to how we see them, just as like you said our cube would appear completely differently to how it would to a 2nd dimensional being. And then you keep going up to higher and higher dimensions and realise our perception of the world might not even be close to how it really exists. It's fascinating to think about (even if I'm not convinced of it all).

That is fascinating and hard to imagine but just about possible to imagine in my current drunken state.
If you think that all us humans can perceive is the visible light spectrum and detect infrared and ultraviolet etc but who knows how much more there is that we can’t detect.
You never know.The multiple dimensions theory could be real.We’re limited by our limited senses.

[Maru]

Originally Posted by Northern Monkey

That is fascinating and hard to imagine but just about possible to imagine in my current drunken state.
If you think that all us humans can perceive is the visible light spectrum and detect infrared and ultraviolet etc but who knows how much more there is that we can’t detect.
You never know.The multiple dimensions theory could be real.We’re limited by our limited senses.

The perfect state of mind to absorb any physics discussion.