[Mystic Mock]

Not all un PC people are racists op.

Anyway I get pissed off with Political Correctness as much as the next person,but I could never do what he did.

[tmi]

Originally Posted by patsylimerick

I think it's often the case that countries with fewer immigrants can be more racist; it's a fear of the unknown, to some extent. I know when I moved to London in the early 90s I was gobsmacked by the multiculturalism. When I returned to Ireland, I was mortified by how 'backward' some people's attitudes remained. A lot of rural Ireland is very, very 'white'. Even now, my children rarely see people of different ethnicity and I think that's a bad thing. I was listening to an interesting discussion between Irish emigrants living in Oslo today; while some where singing the praises of this open, almost crime free, society - some others were insistent that there is an intolerance bubbling beneath.

The area in which I live is the same has your Pats, I appreciate that we are a multicultural society and we have all the same rights in Britain, but do we have the same rights in other countries .

[Cromwell1900]

Originally Posted by letmein

More evidence that the people who through the term "PC" around every five seconds, are racists. Time to stop using this get out of jail free card, methinks!

I Hate political correctness and upon searching my memory banks i know of no moment when i have hated a person because of their Race, and you'll have to trust me, i have been put to that test on many occasion.

You remind me of Gordon Brown and his infamous "Bigoted Woman" comment he made as a private description of a Woman who brought up Immigration to him on a public walkabout at election time. He played the Race card as your post is doing... Oh dear, what a tangled web we weave etc.

Anyway it's important to remember that by and large we all form opinions out of a what's best for me type attitude, perfectly natural, its been happening for 1000s of years no great surprise there. Fortunatly for us our politicians do this on our behalf. Lots of immigration is good for the Country, and really good for everyone as a whole. As a financial argument it makes good sense - Britain imports Labour from poorer Countries keeping Business costs down enabling us to compete in a Business World ever more dependent on low cost production, higher exports results and happy days.....

unfortunately something has gone wrong with our politicians. There broken Just like a moth attracted to a light bulb instead of the Sun, getting burned, flying away, and spotting the Sun again, and again.... They can't asses "Best for us" unless it comes with a price tag, or they can do a complex set of sums to work it out, Maths is the way they fix things
Kind of like the Little Britain sketch "Computer says No"

The reason I and people i speak to dislike this level of Immigration is Social Cohesion, not really a Maths thing is it Gordon?, David?

The fact that it's ok to gain residence here and yet not know how to speak English does not suggest law makers care about Racial Integration.
How is an Integrated workplace for instance suppose to grow out of Workers not speaking the same language. Separation not Integration is the reality of current Immigration practice.

The Politicians are doing there Maths but there is a whole big chunk that they don't recognise as valid, therefore people only to happy to see the kind of Immigration that looks at Social Benefit as well as Financial Benefit get lumped into the bucket labelled Racist.

We should not be surprised, By and large politicians form opinions from what is good for them that's why the nice old lady had to be a Bigot. Politicians do not encounter Social Breakdown on a personal level so if were to be tard with a dirty brush for being real and trying to point it out to there broken little heads then God help us because a Politicians calculator only does numbers.


I think i'll ignore the connection the OP makes between PC detractors and Mass Murderers. Op are you trying to get a rise here.... Oh you are a hoot!

[Livia]

Your penultimate para talks about tarring people with the same brush. And yet, that's exactly what you've done throughout your post when you've talked about politicians.

Have to say, on the whole I agree with a lot of your points though. People are frightened to brinig up the subject of immigration for fear of being labelled a racist. Good post.

[bananarama]

Originally Posted by Chewy

Political correctness, though not popular, exists for a reason - racism, sexism and other forms of discrimination should not be acceptable, everyone is human and deserves the same treatment.

The only time PC 'goes mad' is when it actually favours one person over another, for the purposes of having a token minority

Political correctnes exists to censor free expression....Nothing more nothing less.........PC should be a criminal offence........PC is a disgrace to any so called free country where individuals can cherry pick what is offensive or not and by doing so suppress free expression and in the long run generates more dangerous hatred than would allowing people to express themselvs. PC is a fools philosophy.

[bananarama]

Originally Posted by Cromwell1900

I Hate political correctness and upon searching my memory banks i know of no moment when i have hated a person because of their Race, and you'll have to trust me, i have been put to that test on many occasion.

You remind me of Gordon Brown and his infamous "Bigoted Woman" comment he made as a private description of a Woman who brought up Immigration to him on a public walkabout at election time. He played the Race card as your post is doing... Oh dear, what a tangled web we weave etc.

Anyway it's important to remember that by and large we all form opinions out of a what's best for me type attitude, perfectly natural, its been happening for 1000s of years no great surprise there. Fortunatly for us our politicians do this on our behalf. Lots of immigration is good for the Country, and really good for everyone as a whole. As a financial argument it makes good sense - Britain imports Labour from poorer Countries keeping Business costs down enabling us to compete in a Business World ever more dependent on low cost production, higher exports results and happy days.....

unfortunately something has gone wrong with our politicians. There broken Just like a moth attracted to a light bulb instead of the Sun, getting burned, flying away, and spotting the Sun again, and again.... They can't asses "Best for us" unless it comes with a price tag, or they can do a complex set of sums to work it out, Maths is the way they fix things
Kind of like the Little Britain sketch "Computer says No"

The reason I and people i speak to dislike this level of Immigration is Social Cohesion, not really a Maths thing is it Gordon?, David?

The fact that it's ok to gain residence here and yet not know how to speak English does not suggest law makers care about Racial Integration.
How is an Integrated workplace for instance suppose to grow out of Workers not speaking the same language. Separation not Integration is the reality of current Immigration practice.

The Politicians are doing there Maths but there is a whole big chunk that they don't recognise as valid, therefore people only to happy to see the kind of Immigration that looks at Social Benefit as well as Financial Benefit get lumped into the bucket labelled Racist.

We should not be surprised, By and large politicians form opinions from what is good for them that's why the nice old lady had to be a Bigot. Politicians do not encounter Social Breakdown on a personal level so if were to be tard with a dirty brush for being real and trying to point it out to there broken little heads then God help us because a Politicians calculator only does numbers.


I think i'll ignore the connection the OP makes between PC detractors and Mass Murderers. Op are you trying to get a rise here.... Oh you are a hoot!

What more can one add. Excellent post.........

[letmein]

Originally Posted by bananarama

Political correctnes exists to censor free expression....Nothing more nothing less.........PC should be a criminal offence........PC is a disgrace to any so called free country where individuals can cherry pick what is offensive or not and by doing so suppress free expression and in the long run generates more dangerous hatred than would allowing people to express themselvs. PC is a fools philosophy.

You are looking to ban free speech then, and who gets to decide what is and isn't "PC", my dear? You? You're just as extreme as Breivik, sans killing people. When has the term "political correctness" not been shouted when a minority isn't involved?! NEVER!

People that scream "PC", usually don't know what it means, and yes, they are almost always bigots. It's a get out jail free card. They use it to bar criticism directed towards their bigotry. They are pro the barring of free speech. If you can dish it out, you better be prepared to face the consequences.

I appreciate the diatribe you've created, where you misspell "offense", "themselves", and "correctness". Hopefully, you were trying to give us a laugh.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by letmein

You are looking to ban free speech then, and who gets to decide what is and isn't "PC", my dear? You? You're just as extreme as Breivik, sans killing people. When has the term "political correctness" not been shouted when a minority isn't involved?! NEVER!

People that scream "PC", usually don't know what it means, and yes, they are almost always bigots. It's a get out jail free card. They use it to bar criticism directed towards their bigotry. They are pro the barring of free speech. If you can dish it out, you better be prepared to face the consequences.

I appreciate the diatribe you've created, where you misspell "offense", "themselves", and "correctness". Hopefully, you were trying to give us a laugh.

Actually, we spell it 'offence'. That aside, I agree with your post. It's a shame we live in a society where political correctness is a requirement. Those who are offended by it are normally people who feel they should be allowed to be offensive without consequences.

[patsylimerick]

Originally Posted by letmein

You are looking to ban free speech then, and who gets to decide what is and isn't "PC", my dear? You? You're just as extreme as Breivik, sans killing people. When has the term "political correctness" not been shouted when a minority isn't involved?! NEVER!

People that scream "PC", usually don't know what it means, and yes, they are almost always bigots. It's a get out jail free card. They use it to bar criticism directed towards their bigotry. They are pro the barring of free speech. If you can dish it out, you better be prepared to face the consequences.

I appreciate the diatribe you've created, where you misspell "offense", "themselves", and "correctness". Hopefully, you were trying to give us a laugh.

Here's a little trick, Letmein. Alphabetically speaking, noun comes before verb - and alphabetically speaking, 'c' comes before 's'. 'c' for the noun, 's' for the verb. So it's offensive not to call it a criminal offence.

[MTVN]

Think it's because letmein is American

[patsylimerick]

Originally Posted by MTVN

Think it's because letmein is American

Ah. I almost had to fight a duel with Lostalex over this a couple of weeks ago I'll try and put it better this time. If you are from a part of the world where the English usage and rules of grammar are different, you probably shouldn't start correcting other people's grammar. Just a suggestion..........

[Cromwell1900]

Originally Posted by Livia

Your penultimate para talks about tarring people with the same brush. And yet, that's exactly what you've done throughout your post when you've talked about politicians.

Have to say, on the whole I agree with a lot of your points though. People are frightened to brinig up the subject of immigration for fear of being labelled a racist. Good post.

Thanks Livia, Bananarama

Politicians tend to be Career orientated, and Politics HAS to be about Serving the People or it just does not work. May as well have a Monarchy as keeping your eye on 1 curruptable King is easier than 250 curruptable Politician's

But for balance of course there have been some great Politicians. Mo Mowlem's part in N.Irelands Peace talks, Claire Short in her defience of the Whip, over the Invasion of Iraq.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Cromwell1900

Thanks Livia, Bananarama

Politicians tend to be Career orientated, and Politics HAS to be about Serving the People or it just does not work. May as well have a Monarchy as keeping your eye on 1 curruptable King is easier than 250 curruptable Politician's

But for balance of course there have been some great Politicians. Mo Mowlem's part in N.Irelands Peace talks, Claire Short in her defience of the Whip, over the Invasion of Iraq.

Actually there are 650 MPs elected to the Commons, but I catch your drift.

I work in politics, and yes, there are some real slime balls, in it for themselves, for the status and the pension... but equally there are some really good people (although I hate to say this) from all the parties who never forget they work for their constituents. If only there were all that way, my job would be a lot easier and the country would be better off.

[Stu]

Grab your knees.

http://www.geek.com/articles/games/n...games-2011081/

It were the videogames what done it!

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Stu

Grab your knees.

http://www.geek.com/articles/games/n...games-2011081/

It were the videogames what done it!

Oh! Ray D'Arcy had a guy on his show this morning, who apparently knew him for 4 years through WoW They weren't blaming the game though

[Cromwell1900]

Originally Posted by Livia

Actually there are 650 MPs elected to the Commons, but I catch your drift.

I work in politics, and yes, there are some real slime balls, in it for themselves, for the status and the pension... but equally there are some really good people (although I hate to say this) from all the parties who never forget they work for their constituents. If only there were all that way, my job would be a lot easier and the country would be better off.

I wish i could say i thought it was a few rotten apples, but surely the good Apples would Out Them wouldn't they? Doesn't seem to happen ever.

I can't remember a single time one Politician grassed up another, in the cause of exposing improper conduct.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Cromwell1900

I wish i could say i thought it was a few rotten apples, but surely the good Apples would Out Them wouldn't they? Doesn't seem to happen ever.

I can't remember a single time one Politician grassed up another, in the cause of exposing improper conduct.

Politicians grass each other up all the time. Their staff also grass them up. I think it's well known that TV's political correspondent Daisy McAndrew was Charles Kennedy's press secretary, and leaked the story about his alcoholism that ended his career. Didn't do her any harm either.

I'm not sure people would vote for a politician who went about pointing the finger at other politicians. People hate a grass in all walks of life. Eventually they'll get outed, like the idiot who claimed expenses for the duck house and the hero who claimed for his moat to be cleared. The more of those people who are exposed, I think adds to the chance that MPs in the future will have to be more transparent in their dealings and more honourable all round. We have a chance to sack them every 4-5 years. If more people voted, things would be different.

[Cromwell1900]

Originally Posted by Livia

Politicians grass each other up all the time. Their staff also grass them up. I think it's well known that TV's political correspondent Daisy McAndrew was Charles Kennedy's press secretary, and leaked the story about his alcoholism that ended his career. Didn't do her any harm either.

I did not know that. But take the Expenses scandal, i got the impression that it was common knowledge amongst Mp's that some of them we're taking the Micheal out of the system. Some did it, others chose not to, but the scandal went on unexposed for years.

Originally Posted by Livia

I'm not sure people would vote for a politician who went about pointing the finger at other politicians. People hate a grass in all walks of life. Eventually they'll get outed, like the idiot who claimed expenses for the duck house and the hero who claimed for his moat to be cleared. The more of those people who are exposed, I think adds to the chance that MPs in the future will have to be more transparent in their dealings and more honourable all round. We have a chance to sack them every 4-5 years. If more people voted, things would be different.

I Agree people may not vote for them and to a Career Politician that's the Point. Lose Votes = Bad Gain Votes = Good. Is the calculation that way so they ensure they are able to give the people the benefit of their Great Leadership another term i guess. At what point do they stop pandering to the masses and do the Job of a Politician and Lead without fear of there own position.

No one likes to be a Grass i know but There are kids being bullied at schools right now simply because they are afraid to Grass, and that mindset is good enough for Our Politicians? i know you don't buy that!

I just think they should be above it, and those that we're full of good intensions and Character at the start are not at the end as they fall into line so easy. They have their Character and good will sucked out of them by the Status Quo.


We're talking about the Leaders of the Country Here

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Cromwell1900

I did not know that. But take the Expenses scandal.... etc. etc. etc.

The expenses scandal did go unexposed for years, I agree. I have to say though that the majority of MPs were completely in the clear. In fact, very few broke the law, or there would have been more prosecutions. While some MPs, while acting legally, did milk the system, many did not. A couple of the MPs I work with published their expenses online every year long before the expenses scandal broke.

Since the scandal, the way MPs claim expenses has changed radically and it’s now controlled by IPSA – the Independent Parliamentary Standard Authority. What this now means is that MPs can still claim for almost everything they used to claim for, but the paperwork is much more complicated and much more evidence has to be provided. The ones who are actually being penalised are MPs staff who now have double the work to do on expenses while finding it much more difficult and complicated to claim expenses themselves.

I also think they should be “above it all” but the trouble with that is that they are human beings. What’s more, aside from the expenses they (legally) claim, MPs earn around about £60,000. The responsibility they take is massive, and they could be out on their ear in four years or sooner if things go drastically wrong. In terms of a managerial salary in industry, £60k isn’t even middle management. That means that a political career is much more attractive to people who already come from money and is less attractive to someone who is working class or middle class, who with a good education can earn a lot more elsewhere.

Having said all that, I could easily pick out 20% of them who should be up against the wall come the revolution.

[patsylimerick]

Originally Posted by Livia

The expenses scandal did go unexposed for years, I agree. I have to say though that the majority of MPs were completely in the clear. In fact, very few broke the law, or there would have been more prosecutions. While some MPs, while acting legally, did milk the system, many did not. A couple of the MPs I work with published their expenses online every year long before the expenses scandal broke.

Since the scandal, the way MPs claim expenses has changed radically and it’s now controlled by IPSA – the Independent Parliamentary Standard Authority. What this now means is that MPs can still claim for almost everything they used to claim for, but the paperwork is much more complicated and much more evidence has to be provided. The ones who are actually being penalised are MPs staff who now have double the work to do on expenses while finding it much more difficult and complicated to claim expenses themselves.

I also think they should be “above it all” but the trouble with that is that they are human beings. What’s more, aside from the expenses they (legally) claim, MPs earn around about £60,000. The responsibility they take is massive, and they could be out on their ear in four years or sooner if things go drastically wrong. In terms of a managerial salary in industry, £60k isn’t even middle management. That means that a political career is much more attractive to people who already come from money and is less attractive to someone who is working class or middle class, who with a good education can earn a lot more elsewhere.

Having said all that, I could easily pick out 20% of them who should be up against the wall come the revolution.

Completely agree with this. The reality is that politicians park their life on the footpath when they step over the gateway into public life. They are always, always, always on call - accountable, exposed and under intense scrutiny. Of course there are those who are on an ego trip - but I actually think most of those don't last very long. They workload is too overwhelming and the demands too high. I would love if there was a fly on the wall documentary that followed the life and times of an MP for a month. These people are expected to be in Parliament, in their constituency, at every funeral, sporting event, social event, charity event, conference, briefing session, committee meeting, internal committee meeting and basically every dogfight relevant to their constitutency or party on a weekly basis. On top of which, they have to familiarise themselves with and possibly speak on dozens of pieces of new legislation every week, deal with a contant flood of constituency queries and appeals for assistance, draft parliamentary questions and contribute to policy direction.

The problem is that the general public have not the vaguest concept of how extraordinarily challenging a life in politics is. It somehow suits the collective consciousness to assume that they are lazy money-grabbing narcissists.