[Redway]

Anyone who seriously thinks Oxford’s better than Cambridge for anything scientific-mathematical is probably just going by the lay image of Oxford being number one in everything and that couldn’t be further from the truth as far as those subjects go.

The fact that Oxford was number one in the league tables one year doesn’t mean Cambridge wasn’t at other periods and school careers advisers are known for saying different things to different people. People smart enough to do medicine don’t usually take to them instantly.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Cherie

Absolute garbage they are both equally renowned along with Imperial College

In the UK yes. In academic circles worldwide yes. With the average person (including many potential employers) worldwide? No it is not garbage. Ask your average American and they will have heard of Oxford University, but not any other UK university. Look at any non-UK TV show or movie where they need to "consult an expert" in the UK... where does the little tag line say they went? Oxford. Need to emphasise that a character is well educated? "They studied at Oxford".

Both being equally academically prestigious does not mean that they both have the same reputation, or "PR" if you will.

Being able to say "I studied at Oxford" is a boost outside of the UK. Just literally the name drop.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Redway

probably just going by the lay image of Oxford being number one in everything and that couldn’t be further from the truth as far as those subjects go.

My point is that it's a mistake to not realise that "the lay image of Oxford being number one in everything" is very relevant, and very valuable, even if it's not true.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

In the UK yes. In academic circles worldwide yes. With the average person (including many potential employers) worldwide? No it is not garbage. Ask your average American and they will have heard of Oxford University, but not any other UK university. Look at any non-UK TV show or movie where they need to "consult an expert" in the UK... where does the little tag line say they went? Oxford. Need to emphasise that a character is well educated? "They studied at Oxford".

Both being equally academically prestigious does not mean that they both have the same reputation, or "PR" if you will.

Being able to say "I studied at Oxford" is a boost outside of the UK. Just literally the name drop.

Sorry that is completely untrue

[bitontheslide]

Oxford, Cambridge, St Andrews, Glasgow and Durham are traditionally regarded as the prestigious universities in the UK. Oxford and Cambridge only get more emphasis in other countries because traditionally the foreign services and government all came from those institutions. The moment you move away from those roles into the scientific or business arenas then world perception changes dramatically on what is the "best" university

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Cherie

Sorry that is completely untrue

OK Cherie, you PM me next time you hear a pop culture reference to an "an expert from Imperial College London"... because I'd be fascinated .

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Being able to say "I studied at Oxford" is a boost outside of the UK. Just literally the name drop.

Someone I went to school with was boasting that he was going to study at Oxford, and we were all really impressed ... But it turned out to be Oxford Brookes there's nothing wrong with that at all, but it was funny how he was trying to act like he was going to actual Oxford.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

Oxford, Cambridge, St Andrews, Glasgow and Durham are traditionally regarded as the prestigious universities in the UK. Oxford and Cambridge only get more emphasis in other countries because traditionally the foreign services and government all came from those institutions. The moment you move away from those roles into the scientific or business arenas then world perception changes dramatically on what is the "best" university

I'd scratch Glasgow for Edinburgh in terms of academic reputation, personally.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

Someone I went to school with was boasting that he was going to study at Oxford, and we were all really impressed ... But it turned out to be Oxford Brookes there's nothing wrong with that at all, but it was funny how he was trying to act like he was going to actual Oxford.

I mean technically you could lie about it without lying quite easily... just go to Oxford, sit in a cafe and read some textbooks then tell people "I studied in Oxford" and hope they don't notice you said "in" not "at"

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

OK Cherie, you PM me next time you hear a pop culture reference to an "an expert from Imperial College London"... because I'd be fascinated .

Interested in studying abroad?
Check out our comprehensive guides

Top Universities in the World 2018










Click here to discover the top universities in the world in 2020.
It’s here. Nearly 1,000 universities from 84 destinations around the world are included in the QS World University Rankings® 2018, providing you with the only resource you need to refer to when deciding which universities to apply to. If you really want to be among the best of the best, these are the ten universities you should attend.
1. Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT)

It’s six years in a row at the top for MIT, with the US university continuing to show everyone else how its done. At the heart of its incredible record in our rankings is an extremely strong reputation among both fellow academics and employers, as well as the fact MIT is responsible for an impressive number of academic citations per faculty.
2. Stanford University
There’s no change at number two either, with the Silicon Valley-based Stanford University continuing to hold off the challenge from Harvard. Stanford goes toe-to-toe with MIT in multiple of the indicators used to compile the rankings, but loses ground because of the university’s low international student ratio.
3. Harvard University
Having been second two years ago, Harvard is now cemented in third place in the rankings. The US university can at least take comfort from the fact it’s ranked best in the world for its reputation among academics surveyed for this ranking, a title it retains from previous years.
4. California Institute of Technology (Caltech)
Our first mover and shaker in the top 10 is Caltech, which rises one place from last year. At the heart of this improvement is a particularly good student to faculty ratio and an impressive number of citations produced per faculty.
5. University of Cambridge
Finally! After a clean sweep for the US in the top four, we eventually reach a university from another country. Cambridge was fourth last year so won’t be entirely happy with their slip down the ladder. It’s not all bad news though: the UK university is ranked best in the world for employer reputation and can at least enjoy bragging rights over a certain rival. Speaking of which…
6. University of Oxford
Still in sixth and still behind their arch-rivals Cambridge, the University of Oxford still has some ground to make up if they want to be the best in Britain. It does out-perform Cambridge in its ratio of international students and international faculty though, so maybe they can brag about that for the next year?
7. UCL (University College London)
Three UK universities in a row and it’s another non-mover from last year, suggesting fears British universities would suffer because of Brexit may have been overblown (for now). UCL has one of the most internationally diverse student bodies in the world.
8. Imperial College London
Climbing up the rankings one place is another London university, Imperial. The university is particularly well-regarded for its scientific and technical teaching, as well as its business school.
9. University of Chicago
It’s back to the US for ninth-placed University of Chicago, an improvement of one place from last year’s ranking. The university enjoys a particularly strong score for its reputation among academics.
10. ETH Zurich (Swiss Federal Institute of Technology)
The UK-US duopoly is finally broken by the Swiss, and 10th-placed ETH Zurich. The university has fallen two places since last year and is let down by a poor student to faculty ratio, but out-performs at least one of the universities above it in every other category.


I was going to say UCL as well, and there you go 4 UK Unis in the World top 10 and you are telling me no body has heard of Cambridge...lol

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Cherie

I was going to say UCL as well, and there you go 4 UK Unis in the World top 10 and you are telling me no body has heard of Cambridge...lol

I don't think you're grasping what I'm getting at Cherie but that's OK .

I specifically said laypeople, outside of academic circles... two or three times.

Of course people IN academia are aware of the actual top universities in the world and how they stack up.

My point is that the name - PURELY the name - has entered pop culture consciousness as synonymous with "prestige" (alongside Harvard) in ways that other Universities never will, and that is INHERENTLY valuable regardless of actual teaching standards or league tables.

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I mean technically you could lie about it without lying quite easily... just go to Oxford, sit in a cafe and read some textbooks then tell people "I studied in Oxford" and hope they don't notice you said "in" not "at"

Yeah I think that was his plan, he was talking about it in general terms. I smelled a fish when he said be was going to study Primary Education - that's what I did, and I knew from my research into where to go that Oxford University didn't do that I gave him the benefit of the doubt that he was doing a degree and then a PGCE and was just using shorthand, but someone who was going to Brookes without fake-boastig saw him there

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I don't think you're grasping what I'm getting at Cherie but that's OK .

I specifically said laypeople, outside of academic circles... two or three times.

Of course people IN academia are aware of the actual top universities in the world and how they stack up.

My point is that the name - PURELY the name - has entered pop culture consciousness as synonymous with "prestige" (alongside Harvard) in ways that other Universities never will, and that is INHERENTLY valuable regardless of actual teaching standards or league tables.

Oh you brought out the the last bastion for someone on the back foot

Of course 'lay' people have heard of it, don't be silly now

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Cherie

Oh you brought out the the last bastion for someone on the back foot

Of course 'lay' people have heard of it, don't be silly now

So are you arguing that Cambridge, Imperial et al. are referrenced as often in pop culture as Oxford or Harvard? Or that it's irrelevant that Oxford/Harvard have become synonymous with "prestigious education" in pop fiction? Again I will point out that I'm not saying that ARE more academically prestigious - just they are specifically used as "plot point shortcuts" to flag academic excellence and that that sort of global subliminal messaging holds inherent value.

You're not offering any counter-argument to those points Cherie other than "Sorry not troo".

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

So are you arguing that Cambridge, Imperial et al. are referrenced as often in pop culture as Oxford or Harvard? Or that it's irrelevant that Oxford/Harvard have become synonymous with "prestigious education" in pop fiction? Again I will point out that I'm not saying that ARE more academically prestigious - just they are specifically used as "plot point shortcuts" to flag academic excellence and that that sort of global subliminal messaging holds inherent value.

You're not offering any counter-argument to those points Cherie other than "Sorry not troo".

What are you offering, a survey of Americans? yours is personal opinion as well, at least I have league tables to back up my view, where is your confirmation that Americans have never heard of Cambridge?

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Cherie

What are you offering, a survey of Americans? yours is personal opinion as well, at least I have league tables to back up my view, where is your confirmation that Americans have never heard of Cambridge?

I didn't say that Americans have never heard of Cambridge, I said that Oxford is referenced in pop culture as being synonymous with academic prestige and the evidence is COUNTLESS movies, television shows and other pop culture references globally not just in the US and I've also explained why league tables are irrelevant and thus not counter-evidence. My argument is patently NOT that Oxford is at the top of the league tables? It's honestly not my fault that you don't understand what I'm getting at Cherie.

[smudgie]

Oxbridge says it all really.
Not a hair between them.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I didn't say that Americans have never heard of Cambridge, I said that Oxford is referenced in pop culture as being synonymous with academic prestige and the evidence is COUNTLESS movies, television shows and other pop culture references globally not just in the US and I've also explained why league tables are irrelevant and thus not counter-evidence. My argument is patently NOT that Oxford is at the top of the league tables? It's honestly not my fault that you don't understand what I'm getting at Cherie.

You have rambled away completely from the question in the OP and we are only on page 2

Which is the better uni? he didn’t ask how it’s perceived by lay people, not my fault you didn’t comprehend the question TS

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Cherie

You have rambled away completely from the question in the OP and we are only on page 2



Which is the better uni? he didn’t ask how it’s perceived by lay people, not my fault you didn’t comprehend the question TS

"Better" is completely subjective; Perception of alumni is (in my opinion) hugely important when it comes to weighing up the options. I personally would say its more important than the quality of teaching because, sadly, very little comes down to merit in the world... It's all about image. And nepotism.

[Ant.]

Originally Posted by Redway

So why are the entry requirements at A-Level higher for Cambridge than Oxford?

Higher entry requirements ≠ better quality

I think Oxford is harder to get into anyway with how they assess people in interviews and the entry test

[Ant.]

Originally Posted by Redway

Anyone who seriously thinks Oxford’s better than Cambridge for anything scientific-mathematical is probably just going by the lay image of Oxford being number one in everything and that couldn’t be further from the truth as far as those subjects go.

The fact that Oxford was number one in the league tables one year doesn’t mean Cambridge wasn’t at other periods and school careers advisers are known for saying different things to different people. People smart enough to do medicine don’t usually take to them instantly.

so we shouldn't listen to anyone else and we shouldn't listen to league tables but we should listen to you?

[Livia]

Cambridge, naturally. And it's been my experience that a degree from Cambridge can get you just about anywhere you want to go. I've worked in the States twice on the strength of it. I first met my husband when he was studying at Cambridge and went on to MIT to do his post grad.

[Ant.]

https://www.timeshighereducation.com...st-place-study from 2015

https://www.themedicportal.com/appli...hool-rankings/

https://www.theguardian.com/educatio...e-for-medicine (Oxford #1, Cambridge #4)

And does it really matter how Cambridge faired in past years if Oxford was considered the best at the time of my application?

I don't get your point Redway? One of your reasons for Cambridge being better was the Uni having a higher grade requirement (by a grade) but there's other factors in the application process

They're both amazing unis for it but regardless there's more weight to suggest that Oxford is better

[Twosugars]

I got an award from a cambridge college 15 years ago

Which just confirms that oxford is better.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Twosugars

I got an award from a cambridge college 15 years ago

Which just confirms that oxford is better.

What was it, the 1000000 rejection