[Liberty4eva]

Originally Posted by MTVN

Why don't you elaborate? The point is that a fundamentalist interpretation of religion is dangerous whether it's Christianity or Islam. Look at what ultra-Zionism has led to in Israel, and I dread to think what state the world would be in if the militaristic Christian fundamentalists secured power in the US

First of all, you should know by now that I don't buy into this image that bin Laden was an Islamic fundamentalist. I believe we were lead to believe he was an Islamic fundamentalist for nefarious reasons. But that's another thread and topic unto itself. I'd rather not open a can of worms if I can avoid it.

But if I for one half-second believed that bin Laden was an Islamic fundamentalist as he is portrayed to be, it's still idiotic to, with one brush, say or suggest that all Americans are as bad as bin Laden.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Liberty4eva

First of all, you should know by now that I don't buy into this image that bin Laden was an Islamic fundamentalist. I believe we were lead to believe he was an Islamic fundamentalist for nefarious reasons. But that's another thread and topic unto itself. I'd rather not open a can of worms if I can avoid it.

But if I for one half-second believed that bin Laden was an Islamic fundamentalist as he is portrayed to be, it's still idiotic to, with one brush, say or suggest that all Americans are as bad as bin Laden.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by Liberty4eva

First of all, you should know by now that I don't buy into this image that bin Laden was an Islamic fundamentalist. I believe we were lead to believe he was an Islamic fundamentalist for nefarious reasons. But that's another thread and topic unto itself. I'd rather not open a can of worms if I can avoid it.

But if I for one half-second believed that bin Laden was an Islamic fundamentalist as he is portrayed to be, it's still idiotic to, with one brush, say or suggest that all Americans are as bad as bin Laden.

Well your first paragraph is just a baseless claim unless you do elaborate because I've never really heard that claimed before, unless you're just saying he doesn't represent a true fundamentalist reading of Islam but anyway..

Yes it would be idiotic to say that all Americans are as bad as him, I was just making the point that fundamentalism - which a large number of Americans do subscribe to - is dangerous in all religions

Originally Posted by 08marsh

Except there's one or two VERY BIG differences between the two. 10 points for the person who can spot it.

Not the point

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by MTVN

Not the point

Of the thread?

Well, neither's Bin Laden.

But in response to what you said about them being the same it very much is the point.
People are defined by their actions not what pigeon-holes you put them into.

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by 08marsh

Of the thread?

Well, neither's Bin Laden.

But in response to what you said about them being the same it very much is the point.

No to the point of the comparison, firstly because Islamic fundamentalism isn't the only religous interpretation that has blood on it's hands, fundamentalism in Christianity and ultra-Zionism in Israel has also led to plenty of deaths and I've no doubt it would again if a member of the Tea Party ever came to power in the US. Plus Bush was a Christian, received support from the Religious Right and is responsible for far more deaths than Bin Laden. But secondly it's because I wasn't saying they were comparable in terms of death tolls anyway, I was pointing out that you can put Bin Laden and his interpretation of the Qu'ran on a similar level to the interpretation of the Bible by millions of Americans in the sense that both are fundamentalist readings.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by MTVN

I wasn't saying they were comparable in terms of death tolls anyway,

I didn't think that.

Originally Posted by MTVN

I was pointing out that you can put Bin Laden and his interpretation of the Qu'ran on a similar level to the interpretation of the Bible by millions of Americans in the sense that both are fundamentalist readings.

I don't quite agree but fair enough. I understand your original opinion now.

[Vicky.]

Can we get this back on topic please

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Can we get this back on topic please

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by 08marsh

[Liberty4eva]

Originally Posted by MTVN

Well your first paragraph is just a baseless claim unless you do elaborate because I've never really heard that claimed before, unless you're just saying he doesn't represent a true fundamentalist reading of Islam but anyway..

I'm not going to spend a lot of time retyping out old points I've made on other threads. If you really care to learn something beyond what you saw and heard on the teli, do a search for former FBI translator Sibel Edmunds and invest a little time. It's kind of hard to be an Islamic fundamentalist when you're on the great satan's payroll up to and perhaps beyond 9/11.

Originally Posted by MTVN

Yes it would be idiotic to say that all Americans are as bad as him, I was just making the point that fundamentalism - which a large number of Americans do subscribe to - is dangerous in all religions

Christian Fundamentalists can be dangerous but I think it needs to be put into perspective. They can be dangerous but then again so can communists, socialists, eugenisists, people who think the world is over populated. Any group of people that have a belief that is dogmatically held can potentially be dangerous.

Let me give you an example of what I mean: Prince Philip has stated in the past on more than one occation that if reincarnation is real, he hopes to come back as a deadly virus to help solve the problem of overpopulation. I once posted a thread that mentions those quotes and, to my absolute and utter astonishment, people on here who responded to my thread thought his quotes were funny. I couldn't believe those responses and I still don't believe them. IMHO, anyone who fancies coming back as a germ so they can murder innocent people is likely to be far, far, far more dangerous than at least 99.99% of all the Christian fundamentalists in America.

[Vicky.]

Taking it my posts are invisible to some...

[InOne]

No. Gays are all going to burn in hell anyway.

/westborobaptistchurch

[ElProximo]

It's absolutely laughable that nobody's posts accusing Christians of being 'murderers' are deleted,
yet,
a VERY COMMON UK OPINION about homosexuality being illegitimate and perverted will be deleted.

I suggest the person abusing their buttons needs to realize one of the very reasons they have social phobia, panic attacks and depression IS because they are doing shameful, sick, hurtful evil little things which (in their heart) they know contradict their moral compass.

Read that again.
Read it a third time. Think about that. Thank me later.

............
easily one of most pathetic things in religious discourse is this idea that there is a religion called 'religion' and you get to hold Christian fundamentalists as some parallels to Muslim fundamentalists.
Putting aside the retarded way uneducated (about religious movements) the definition of 'fundamentalism'.
Put that aside.
There is no parallel. Not even close. It is actually ridiculous and laughable and just sad anyone tries to make some 'grouping'.

Atheist fundamentalists have horrifically mass-murdered hundreds of people (often children) and done so for exactly that reason - terrifying ugly deaths to innocent people.

Muslim 'fundamentalists' have horrifically mass-murdered and tortured and terrorized thousands of people this year.
For the very reason, intent, purpose of doing just that - actually murdering innocent people. To cause horrible pain and suffering to innocent people.

Christian 'fundamentalists'... 1 of them shot an abortion doctor a few years ago because he (the 'fundamentalist') believed he was going to save the lives of innocent babies.
For the purpose of letting babies live.


Otherwise, Christian fundamentalists spend a helluva lot of time doing 'soup kitchens' and opening drug rehab missions.

Secular non-religious UK 20somethings posting in forums murder and torture more.

[Niamh.]

Yeah, your extremely homophobic comments were never deleted El Proximo.

[Grimnir]

i give my thoughts

i do not believe in god and have no religion

we should all **** each other like bunny rabbits on acid as much as possible and have as many orgasms as possible before we die, then when we die we should have a threesome with god and satan

religious people do not share this belief, they have their personal views on sex and we have to respect them because those are the rules, respect others beliefs even if you find them nonsense

all gay people are different just as all heterosexuals are different

some gays are almost as dirty as me, and some are even more conservative than a religious couple

now i get to my point

i don't believe that any form of sex outside biological reproduction basic sex should be taught to children, likewise i don't believe religion should be taught in schools

education should be kept to academic subjects like science, maths, history etc

sociological and psychological subjects like sex and religion should be taught at home and then at college if the student chooses it for their course and are interested in it

sexuality is so much more complex than simply putting people in pigeon holes like gay or straight as if there are only 2 types of people in the world

there is a whole world of sexual perversion out there, some like to have gang bangs, some like to be whipped and punished, some like she males, some like dwarfs, some like orgies, some like swinging parties, some like nudism, some like trannies, some like inanimate objects, some like watersports, the list goes on and on and on

NONE of this should be taught to children, only reproduction in biology class thats all, once they an adult they can learn what they like

[swinearefine]

I think if straight marriage is taught or discussed, gay marriage should as well. I remember a few years ago here in America there was a big scandal about teachers in Massachusetts (I think the first US state to legalize gay marriage) reading gay fairytales to little kids and like my whole family and half the country wanted to burn those teachers on the stake :P I totally disagree with the posters claiming that yanks are right wing bible freaks - that is largely true about the older generations, but at least two-thirds of kids my age are extremely liberal atheists where I live. Gay marriage was juat legalized in New York and is now legal in 35% of the country

[iRyan]

I suggest the person abusing their buttons needs to realize one of the very reasons they have social phobia, panic attacks and depression IS because they are doing shameful, sick, hurtful evil little things which (in their heart) they know contradict their moral compass.

You are so ignorant it's sad. How in any way is loving another person hurtful and evil? I can't even take anything you say seriously. You're nothing but a pathetic, simple minded boy.

[ElProximo]

Originally Posted by iRyan

You are so ignorant it's sad. How in any way is loving another person hurtful and evil? I can't even take anything you say seriously. You're nothing but a pathetic, simple minded boy.

Hurtful and evil is censoring opinions you don't like in hopes of pushing your own particular 'righteous mandate'.
Its cowardly, small and censorship truly is 'pathetic and simple-minded'.

As for your comments?
The debate IS about what is loving or not. Nobody on any side has ever been against anyone loving anyone.
Many great men loved other men. Many fathers love their sons. Many brothers love their sisters.
Many young men have a great loving admiration of their mentors, professors.
NONE OF THIS involving any homosexual sex.

But the actual debate is about 'what is loving'.
Are you 'loving' someone by entertaining their weakness and encouraging it?
If they have damaged and confused sexuality you encourage it?

I suggest YOU ARE UNLOVING and you HURT these people every single time you try and tell them its 'normal' and encourage them to continue.
In the same way it would be most UNLOVING for me to tell the paranoid schizophrenic they should make tinfoil hats and should keep reading conspiracy websites and they ought to be proud they write 200 letters a year to the Queen.
In that way you are HURTING people in homosexuality. Do you agree?

Niamh. Yeah, your extremely homophobic comments were never deleted El Proximo.

NOTHING in my comments gave you ANY reason to believe I have any kind of irrational fear of homosexuals.
however,
If I did, it would be on you to be consistent and accept me as a Homophobe.
After all, who are you to attack homophobes just because they are different?
Or are you a hypocrite?

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by ElProximo

Hurtful and evil is censoring opinions you don't like in hopes of pushing your own particular 'righteous mandate'.
Its cowardly, small and censorship truly is 'pathetic and simple-minded'.

As for your comments?
The debate IS about what is loving or not. Nobody on any side has ever been against anyone loving anyone.
Many great men loved other men. Many fathers love their sons. Many brothers love their sisters.
Many young men have a great loving admiration of their mentors, professors.
NONE OF THIS involving any homosexual sex.

But the actual debate is about 'what is loving'.
Are you 'loving' someone by entertaining their weakness and encouraging it?
If they have damaged and confused sexuality you encourage it?

I suggest YOU ARE UNLOVING and you HURT these people every single time you try and tell them its 'normal' and encourage them to continue.
In the same way it would be most UNLOVING for me to tell the paranoid schizophrenic they should make tinfoil hats and should keep reading conspiracy websites and they ought to be proud they write 200 letters a year to the Queen.
In that way you are HURTING people in homosexuality. Do you agree?



NOTHING in my comments gave you ANY reason to believe I have any kind of irrational fear of homosexuals.
however,
If I did, it would be on you to be consistent and accept me as a Homophobe.
After all, who are you to attack homophobes just because they are different?
Or are you a hypocrite?

You do seem to have an irrational hatred for homosexuals though. I don't believe I've "attacked" you btw, would you like to show me where in this thread I've done that? But now that you bring it up, hating someone for who they choose to have a relationship with, imo, is a bit bizarre.

[ElProximo]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

You do seem to have an irrational hatred for homosexuals though.

No. i don't seem to have that.

hating someone for who they choose to have a relationship with, imo, is a bit bizarre.

It sure is. So is hating someone who believes homosexuality is a perversion. Not 'bizarre' since we see that quite a bit but unhealthy for sure.

[MTVN]

You basically fit the definition for homophobe to a tee, don't see how you can deny that one. And I don't know why you're going on about having your opinion censored seeing as it hasn't been

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by ElProximo

No. i don't seem to have that.

a hatred for gays? or the fact that it's an irrational hatred?

It sure is. So is hating someone who believes homosexuality is a perversion. Not 'bizarre' since we see that quite a bit but unhealthy for sure.

I don't hate you El Proximo (if that's what you're implying) But I do find it strange that other peoples sex lives offend you so much.

[letmein]

Originally Posted by cub

It could almost be a 'Little Britain USA' sketch.

You mean, not funny?

[letmein]

Originally Posted by MTVN

It's not all that idiotic; millions of Americans are Christian fundamentalists, Bin Laden was an Islamic fundamentalist..

It's beyond idiotic, and artista should be reprimanded for making such a disgusting comment!

[letmein]

Originally Posted by Grimnir

i don't believe that any form of sex outside biological reproduction basic sex should be taught to children, likewise i don't believe religion should be taught in schools

That makes absolutely no sense. Sex is not simply for reproduction. Are you saying that we should teach about condoms since they restrict reproduction?

You know, I swear, I don't think people think before they post.