[rusticgal]

Originally Posted by DouglasS

Can always rely on you rusti to talk sense

...

[rusticgal]

Originally Posted by jet

I second that...

...

[rusticgal]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

This, really sums it up.

I do applaud the vaccine rollout certainly.
It is something that had to be got a right as is possible, no error.

Exactly....thats what we are discussing on this thread...

[rusticgal]

Originally Posted by Samm

awh yeah just an odd 100,000 dead no matter, today I made a mistake in forgetting to charge my phone I guess it’s the same

...ok

[parmnion]

Can everyone who has made a comment please vote in the poll.

[rusticgal]

Originally Posted by Glenn.

It’s just an awful shame that over 100,000 people can’t say the same. But yay! Well done Boris, you did ONE good thing right.

Its a pandemic...there are going to be casualties. This thread is about the success of the vaccine roll out and no one can dispute the fact he did a great job....you and yours are just bringing up other issues to start an argument.
Stick to the subject matter or start another thread if you want to list his failings..

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by rusticgal

Exactly....thats what we are discussing on this thread...

I'm aware of that, thank you, however I think you will find other comments than mine, indicating on the vaccine yes, on other issues no.

I had only responded to Marsh on just that actually, obviously in agreement with him.

You yourself even raised by also openening up issues other than vaccines talking about hindsight on other issues of the pandemic anyway.

There's been no hindsight on vaccines which I do wholeheartedly still applaud the efforts on, by government, and rightly the public health and local sources who have been the ones ensuring an efficient roll out.
Hence my vote in the poll.

However, that won't change or alter my criticisms as to other aspects of the handling of the pandemic.
Of which the vaccine rollout is only ONE of the issues.
NOT the ONLY one.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by parmnion

Can everyone who has made a comment please vote in the poll.

You don't have an "in some ways" or "we don't know yet" option, so no.

I'm concerned that rushing out all of the first doses of Pfizer and supply issues will mean that people who got that vaccine won't get their 2nd dose, even at 12 weeks, and will potentially have to start over with a different vaccine. We also don't know if extending the 2nd dose interval from 3 weeks to 12 was fine/not a problem, or a huge error and we won't know for 6+ months.

Is the speed of the roll-out impressive? Yes. Have they "done a good job"? We don't know yet.

To use an allegory Parmy... let's say you go out on your daily telly fixing rounds and you fix LOADS of TVs... more than any other TV repairman in London. Have you "done a good job"? It might seems so since you fixed loads of TVs and lots of happy customers are sat at home watching EastEnders.

But then next week, all of those customers are back on the phone, furious because their TV went tits up again after 5 days... you rushed the job, bodged together a quick fix, but not a proper job that gave a lasting result.

Did you do a good job?

[Toy Soldier]

tl;dr a job done quickly is not always a job done well.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

tl;dr a job done quickly is not always a job done well.

Very true that actually.

It's also not done well until it's completed fully and correctly too.

Thus far, I'd say handling it well is a more appropriate term.

Still a fair way to go however and particularly when it comes to all the second vaccinations too.

(We aren't though really in the right if we find faults with Johnson and/ or his government it seems).

[parmnion]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

You don't have an "in some ways" or "we don't know yet" option, so no.

I'm concerned that rushing out all of the first doses of Pfizer and supply issues will mean that people who got that vaccine won't get their 2nd dose, even at 12 weeks, and will potentially have to start over with a different vaccine. We also don't know if extending the 2nd dose interval from 3 weeks to 12 was fine/not a problem, or a huge error and we won't know for 6+ months.

Is the speed of the roll-out impressive? Yes. Have they "done a good job"? We don't know yet.

To use an allegory Parmy... let's say you go out on your daily telly fixing rounds and you fix LOADS of TVs... more than any other TV repairman in London. Have you "done a good job"? It might seems so since you fixed loads of TVs and lots of happy customers are sat at home watching EastEnders.

But then next week, all of those customers are back on the phone, furious because their TV went tits up again after 5 days... you rushed the job, bodged together a quick fix, but not a proper job that gave a lasting result.

Did you do a good job?

I cant be blamed for the failings of samsungs components. So if your scenario comes true then boris cant be blamed for the people passing these vaccines.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

tl;dr a job done quickly is not always a job done well.

Quite

Though it is a refreshing change that they said they would do it quickly, and they are doing it quickest by the looks of it. Was kind expecting anther willy waggling contest, like with the nightingales..look how great we are, we built these, ner ner, better than elsewhere. Oh bugger. We cannot even use them as we ****ed over nurses so we have a huge shortage. But look, shiny pretty things that we built quickly, how amazing are we?!

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by parmnion

I cant be blamed for the failings of samsungs components. So if your scenario comes true then boris cant be blamed for the people passing these vaccines.

fair point

Honestly I think no one thought they would roll it out so quickly and had no faith, when they said they would vaccinate first jabs to the first 4 priority groups by mid Feb, I was like..yeah right ...although as I understand it Scotland are lagging and dragging the rest down?

Funny how they are not an independent nation when things go wrong

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by DouglasS

There were always going to be casualties people are acting like zero people should have died, it’s a pandemic... Boris can’t save everyone, but with this vaccine rollout he will bec saving thousands upon thousands of lives, which we will see from March onwards

Nobody mentioned zero deaths. But you know that.
Why bother responding to what people actually said when you can change the argument, eh.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Cherie

for the sake of mental health, people really need to take any positives and hold then rather than finding the negative in everything, just my humble opinion of course.

Oh definitely.

But people can do that without rewriting history and pretending the mistakes didn't happen. There's a difference.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

This, really sums it up.

I do applaud the vaccine rollout certainly.
It is something that had to be got a right as is possible, no errors.

Injecting people with something totally new had to be done in as near all the right ways and BY the right sources too.

However, we've now lost more lives in the last 3 to 4 months, than were even lost from near a year ago until October.

So even had the first lockdown and losses been down to any hindsight, which I stress it WAS NOT, we had all the forewarnings from January 2020 as to what was happening in Italy and progressing through Europe too.
So it's an insult to those who've lost their lives unnecessarily to call it hindsight..
Totally insulting to them and their bereaved loved ones left too.

How then however to those claiming hindsight, when following the first lockdown, then only this government easing said lockdown, with all sorts of reckless opening up of things.
How can hindsight be the defence at all.

It can't and in my view, it's wrong to claim it can be.
Even worse is that people won't admit the wrongs and incompetence carried out by someone who has dismissed at times the vital scientific and health advice.
Has disregarded the representation of near all other parties in parliament too elected via their voters.

Who has set out to do things his way and his closest advisors way.
Which has been shown to demonstrate only a recklessly dangerous incompetence, that indeed has led to thousands of unnecessarily lost lives of loved ones.

That is at this PM's and his appointed Ministers doors.
As others said, he sought this job of PM, he got it.
No one forces him now to or forced him to do it.

My main concern is his dangerous incompetence gets defended.
In any other job, anyone presiding over the chaos and mess of things done badly and wrongly, plus lives lost too over a near year.
They'd be out and rapidly.
However only his Party can get him out.

At the very time the UK needed a fully genuinely compassionate, competent unifier to be leading us.
We got an arrogant, deluded, self styled buffoon playing a game of being at Prime Minister.
Sadly resulting in playing reckless games with his citizens lives too.

Which is the real, still as yet too, ongoing tragedy of this pandemic under this PM and his Ministers.

Spot on, Joey.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by rusticgal

Exactly....thats what we are discussing on this thread...

Yet.... you saw fit to bring up Boris' actions at the start and completely rewrite what he did.

Odd.

[rusticgal]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Oh definitely.

But people can do that without rewriting history and pretending the mistakes didn't happen. There's a difference.

Whos pretending mistakes didnt happen?

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by parmnion

I cant be blamed for the failings of samsungs components. So if your scenario comes true then boris cant be blamed for the people passing these vaccines.

You could be blamed for rushing the job so that you could get more done in a shorter time, though.

I'm not saying there's anything wrong with the vaccines - I'm saying we don't know (yet) if the longer delay against manufacturer's instructions will have an impact on effectiveness, and we don't know (yet) if supply lines will hold up well enough for people to get their second dose in time.

It might be fine and then we can say they did a great job - but you don't declare a job well done when it's not finished yet. That's just basic common sense.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by rusticgal

Whos pretending mistakes didnt happen?

You did when you said Boris' mistakes are easier to see in "hindsight". Which is flat out wrong.

They were such catastrophic mistakes because he DID have warnings he chose to ignore.

[bitontheslide]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

You could be blamed for rushing the job so that you could get more done in a shorter time, though.

I'm not saying there's anything wrong with the vaccines - I'm saying we don't know (yet) if the longer delay against manufacturer's instructions will have an impact on effectiveness, and we don't know (yet) if supply lines will hold up well enough for people to get their second dose in time.

It might be fine and then we can say they did a great job - but you don't declare a job well done when it's not finished yet. That's just basic common sense.

the latest test data shows that the AZ vaccine becomes more effective with a longer interval, it may not be the same for the other brands, time will tell

[rusticgal]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Yet.... you saw fit to bring up Boris' actions at the start and completely rewrite what he did.

Odd.

...where did I re-write what he did?

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by rusticgal

...where did I re-write what he did?

I've already shown you.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

You could be blamed for rushing the job so that you could get more done in a shorter time, though.

I'm not saying there's anything wrong with the vaccines - I'm saying we don't know (yet) if the longer delay against manufacturer's instructions will have an impact on effectiveness, and we don't know (yet) if supply lines will hold up well enough for people to get their second dose in time.

It might be fine and then we can say they did a great job - but you don't declare a job well done when it's not finished yet. That's just basic common sense.

The question is about the here and now though, no one has a crystal ball

[rusticgal]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

You did when you said Boris' mistakes are easier to see in "hindsight". Which is flat out wrong.

They were such catastrophic mistakes because he DID have warnings he chose to ignore.

....but I havent said he didnt make mistakes...so your accusations are wrong.