[InOne]

The thing is, all she did was knowingly get her daughter kidnapped, she didn't partake in the actual abuse I don't think, was the other guy. So probably why she got off lighter.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by InOne

The thing is, all she did was knowingly get her daughter kidnapped, she didn't partake in the actual abuse I don't think, was the other guy. So probably why she got off lighter.

I take that on board InOne,as you generally make points that set me thinking however,I cannot remove from my mind that all the time she knew where Shannon was and her long path of deceit as it went on for longer and longer just extended Shannon's suffering and time imprisoned.

For that action alone,knowing full well she could have ended her own little daughter's suffering in an instant and the fact she did not or has never shown any remorse for that since either,then I would have thrown the book at her with an extremely long sentence.

Knowing my Parents and how they were with me when I was little, I will never be able to understand how any Mother could do this to her own little Daughter for 'any' reason,she should in fact have been the one protecting her from anything like this happening.

[InOne]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

I take that on board InOne,as you generally make points that set me thinking however,I cannot remove from my mind that all the time she knew where Shannon was and her long path of deceit as it went on for longer and longer just extended Shannon's suffering and time imprisoned.

For that action alone,knowing full well she could have ended her own little daughter's suffering in an instant and the fact she did not or has never shown any remorse for that since either,then I would have thrown the book at her with an extremely long sentence.

Knowing my Parents and how they were with me when I was little, I will never be able to understand how any Mother could do this to her own little Daughter for 'any' reason,she should in fact have been the one protecting her from anything like this happening.

Yeah I wasn't defending her or anything, was just looking at it from the laws point of view. They seemed to miss most of the moral stuff out on this one.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by InOne

The thing is, all she did was knowingly get her daughter kidnapped, she didn't partake in the actual abuse I don't think, was the other guy. So probably why she got off lighter.

They both got 8yrs I thought?...

[InOne]

Originally Posted by kizzy

They both got 8yrs I thought?...

Dunno what they both got, but he was the one who made her take anti-depressants, unless Karen visited the house and made her too

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by InOne

Yeah I wasn't defending her or anything, was just looking at it from the laws point of view. They seemed to miss most of the moral stuff out on this one.

You make the valid point that the law has been lenient and likely given her the benefit of the doubt that she may not have known that Shannon had been drugged etc too.

As I said, the law in my opinion is at fault on this again, chidren need to be protected, this Woman had the police making appeals for her daughter and searching for her too, while all the time knowing full well where she was and who she was with.

As you rightly say, they have missed out a lot of the moral stuff here,I just wish I had been the prosecuting barrister against her on this one, I would have really gone for her in court,to get the maximum sentence for all offences and not lost a second of sleep after doing so either.

[Ammi]

..what she did was dreadful and she's served her time
..that Sun article is awful..'vile'..'loathsome'..'monster'...they're just inciting violence towards her..like throwing her in a 'gladiator ring'..vigilantic acts are wrong..as all violence is..and the perpetrator is no better than the victim..if that's what they resort to

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by Ammi

..what she did was dreadful and she's served her time..that Sun article is awful..'vile'..'loathsome'..'monster'...they're just inciting violence towards her..like throwing her in a 'gladiator ring'..vigilantic acts are wrong..as all violence is..and the perpetrator is no better than the victim..if that's what they resort to

Wrong she's about 5 years off serving her time.

And The Sun hasn't done anything wrong imo, infact the Governments that cover up there identities should be ashamed of themselves as your rewarding them for there crimes which makes the everyday person mad, which you can't blame them for that.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by jedward fever

Wrong she's about 5 years off serving her time.

And The Sun hasn't done anything wrong imo, infact the Governments that cover up there identities should be ashamed of themselves as your rewarding them for there crimes which makes the everyday person mad, which you can't blame them for that.

The Sun's articles are the reason why the government has to pay for new lives for these people. If it wasn't for their stupid articles and borderline braindead audience then the government could put the money to better use but no, they have to protect them from morons that evolution forgot because they can't think for themselves and treat the tabloids like a guide to life.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by jedward fever

Wrong she's about 5 years off serving her time.

And The Sun hasn't done anything wrong imo, infact the Governments that cover up there identities should be ashamed of themselves as your rewarding them for there crimes which makes the everyday person mad, which you can't blame them for that.

..I don't agree that the sentence term doesn't mean just that JF..but that doesn't change my stance on vigilantes or any form of violence..to take the law into our own hands..society just wouldn't exist anymore..people who go around harming someone..because they hate something they've done..there wouldn't be any point in a law system at all..can you imagine what a terrifying world that would be

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by jedward fever

Wrong she's about 5 years off serving her time.

And The Sun hasn't done anything wrong imo, infact the Governments that cover up there identities should be ashamed of themselves as your rewarding them for there crimes which makes the everyday person mad, which you can't blame them for that.

I agree. I see no point in sentences being handed out, for those convicted to only serve 'half/less than half' of the time they were given.

I'm fully aware that KM is regarded as, well, not the smartest tool in the box: but she was still smart enough to maintain the distraught, angst ridden, anguish filled mother: while being wrapped up in a carefully planned 'kidnap' for no other reason than to make money from it - not least, allowing and continuing to have her daughter 'shackled', drugged, hidden and treated in the way a stray dog would not be treated.

She had the smarts about here.....she wasn't 'that daft'.

Originally Posted by Ammi

..I don't agree that the sentence term doesn't mean just that JF..but that doesn't change my stance on vigilantes or any form of violence..to take the law into our own hands..society just wouldn't exist anymore..people who go around harming someone..because they hate something they've done..there wouldn't be any point in a law system at all..can you imagine what a terrifying world that would be

To be honest: if this is what 'society' accepts as adequate punishment for a mother who could do this to her child, deceive her family, her friends, - I'm not altogether sure society could ever actually be called that -well, not a civilised one anyway. The Law doesn't always get it right, it is an ass as the say.

Taking the law into our own hands may not be the answer either - but I can understand the 'notion/the idea' of people venting verbally as to what they'd like to do to her: actually carrying that out, is another matter.

Mind you: she didn't object to her own daughter being abused, drugged and now having her (the daughter - and her other childrens lives) being thrown in to turmoil:- far as I'm concerned: part of such sentences for such crimes committed by a parent - should include sterilisation. That's a whole different debate though.

[joeysteele]

I can see where everyone is coming from but it always amazes me how these people who are what they say, not particularly educated so or are not the sharpest tool in the box, (as Pyramid* pointed out though), can do an amazing acress type performance as the stricken,panicking Mother all through the time this went on with Shannon supposedly missing.
The main person playing that part in all the days this went on was Karen Matthews, she knew where her Daughter was, she knew her daughter was being kept imprisoned because no way could Shannon ever be risked being seen in public, she even allowed The Sun to put up a reward for the finding of her Daughter, offered at £20,000 then increased to £50,000.
I can totally understand The Sun wanting to get their own back on this one, she even fooled them with her performance.I cannot stand The Sun by the way.

I hate vigilante action too, however the law has to be made to start giving out sentences that mean something to protect children particularly.
How could Shannon fight back? How could she have a chance to make a run for it?
After being doped up and kept prisoner by people she should have been able to trust completely.

If this had been a film, Karen Matthews would have been nominated for an oscar for her performance all through it, she has never once expressed any remorse for what she allowed to be done to her own little Daughter.
The sentence was way too short, she did near a year on remand, then got 8 years,she got out in less than 4, what message does that send out.

I can understand people saying she has served her time and it comes from people I respect the views of massively on here but for this crime, to me anyway, she has not even done half of it let alone served the right time for what she allowed to be done to Shannon.
As I say, I would have sent her down for around 15 years for this,no early release either,that would be for the lies, the role she had in allowing Shannon to be 'kidnapped' for not making sure Shannon was really safe,that no drug of any kind being forced on her,
For misleading the media, the Police, her friends and neighbours and indeed the whole Country,accepting appeals for money to help find Shannon etc;where does this list end? Lord knows.

No wonder some people are still angry, the anger though is because even worse than allowing and being involved in a child being kidnapped and inprisoned like Shannon was,which was a pretty rotten enough crime to commit anyway but for any Mother to allow that to happen to her own little Daughter heaps loads more coals onto that fire,

This woman has not served anywhere near enough time for her role in this crime, thankfully Shannon got away from it with her life still, but look at the people involved that Shannon should have been able to run to in order to feel safe and be protected, not get this done to her.
Who though, could have stopped it right at the very start or a day or so later to ease that Childs suffering, none other than the childs Mother Karen Matthews but she didn't and neither has she expressed remorse for this vile act either.
As a Mother she was responsible for Shannon, as part of this crime, she is the main one responsible for it being played out for so long and for all the suffering and imprisonment her child went though.
Sorry, but for me, less than 4 years in prison from an 8 year sentence doesn't come anywhere near close to serving her time for this rotten crime against a totally 'defenceless' child,a simple word but the main one here,'defenceless'.

Also what this Mother also achieved was that in cases like this in the future, the Parents and families of children missing will likely come under even greater scrutiny and suspicion themselves,which could hold up vital time in finding children missing.
This woman has tarnished Motherhood and is not fit to be a Mother,she is not fit to be around any child for that matter and if people think she can be then some other Mothers are rightly going to be furious at that.

The position Karen Matthews finds herself in can only have the blame for it laid at the door of one person and that is Karen Matthews herself.
Only she could have stopped this ever happening in the first place and being the child's Mother, the idea of it should never have even been considered by her, even for a second.
Less than 4 years served from an 8 year sentence for all the crimes against Shannon and trying to pervert the cause of justice too,ridiculous.
They may as well have given her a pat on the head and a sugar lump, to me she got off very lightly indeed.

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

I can see where everyone is coming from but it always amazes me how these people who are what they say, not particularly educated so or are not the sharpest tool in the box, (as Pyramid* pointed out though), can do an amazing acress type performance as the stricken,panicking Mother all through the time this went on with Shannon supposedly missing.
The main person playing that part in all the days this went on was Karen Matthews, she knew where her Daughter was, she knew her daughter was being kept imprisoned because no way could Shannon ever be risked being seen in public, she even allowed The Sun to put up a reward for the finding of her Daughter, offered at £20,000 then increased to £50,000.
I can totally understand The Sun wanting to get their own back on this one, she even fooled them with her performance.I cannot stand The Sun by the way.

I hate vigilante action too, however the law has to be made to start giving out sentences that mean something to protect children particularly.
How could Shannon fight back? How could she have a chance to make a run for it?

After being doped up and kept prisoner by people she should have been able to trust completely.

If this had been a film, Karen Matthews would have been nominated for an oscar for her performance all through it, she has never once expressed any remorse for what she allowed to be done to her own little Daughter.
The sentence was way too short, she did near a year on remand, then got 8 years,she got out in less than 4, what message does that send out.

I can understand people saying she has served her time and it comes from people I respect the views of massively on here but for this crime, to me anyway, she has not even done half of it let alone served the right time for what she allowed to be done to Shannon.
As I say, I would have sent her down for around 15 years for this,no early release either,that would be for the lies, the role she had in allowing Shannon to be 'kidnapped' for not making sure Shannon was really safe,that no drug of any kind being forced on her,
For misleading the media, the Police, her friends and neighbours and indeed the whole Country,accepting appeals for money to help find Shannon etc;where does this list end? Lord knows.

No wonder some people are still angry, the anger though is because even worse than allowing and being involved in a child being kidnapped and inprisoned like Shannon was,which was a pretty rotten enough crime to commit anyway but for any Mother to allow that to happen to her own little Daughter heaps loads more coals onto that fire,

This woman has not served anywhere near enough time for her role in this crime, thankfully Shannon got away from it with her life still, but look at the people involved that Shannon should have been able to run to in order to feel safe and be protected, not get this done to her.
Who though, could have stopped it right at the very start or a day or so later to ease that Childs suffering, none other than the childs Mother Karen Matthews but she didn't and neither has she expressed remorse for this vile act either.
As a Mother she was responsible for Shannon, as part of this crime, she is the main one responsible for it being played out for so long and for all the suffering and imprisonment her child went though.
Sorry, but for me, less than 4 years in prison from an 8 year sentence doesn't come anywhere near close to serving her time for this rotten crime against a totally 'defenceless' child,a simple word but the main one here,'defenceless'.

Also what this Mother also achieved was that in cases like this in the future, the Parents and families of children missing will likely come under even greater scrutiny and suspicion themselves,which could hold up vital time in finding children missing.
This woman has tarnished Motherhood and is not fit to be a Mother,she is not fit to be around any child for that matter and if people think she can be then some other Mothers are rightly going to be furious at that.

The position Karen Matthews finds herself in can only have the blame for it laid at the door of one person and that is Karen Matthews herself.
Only she could have stopped this ever happening in the first place and being the child's Mother, the idea of it should never have even been considered by her, even for a second.
Less than 4 years served from an 8 year sentence for all the crimes against Shannon and trying to pervert the cause of justice too,ridiculous.
They may as well have given her a pat on the head and a sugar lump, to me she got off very lightly indeed.

Just to pick up on the point about The Sun and those who are saying rags like 'The Sun' etc are what leads to people requiring new identities etc.

No it is not. It it the unjustness of the sentence that causes that - and the resultant public outcry - it is the only way the public can voice their displeasure at those who pass the sentences. The Sun (and whatever other 'paper' - whether broadsheet or rag top) - they report on the news. This was (and now is) news.

It might not be the type of news we all agree with - but it's news regardless. Given that the Sun DID put up a hefty amount of money - the whole reason for the disgusting act to start off with - I see nothing wrong with them reporting on her release. Why should they not? She should be afforded no more privacy than any other released prisoner - regardless.

You do the crime, you do the time. Well, she in fact only did half the time that she was sentenced to on the inside: let her enjoy the remainder of 'her time' on the outside.

One more point - amazing to see how refreshed and trouble free she looks in comparison to all the previous photos shown of her - during Shannon's disappearance and all the photos that were available of her days 'pre Shannon's disappearance'. Prison hasn't exactly been a rigour for her by the looks of things. She's not aged beyond her years, she doesn't look ragged, she doesn't look stress, worried.

Yep, looks like Prison really had a detrimental affect on her physical healthy for starters (sarcasm there in case it was missed).... she looks far better than ever she did and though she's benefitted from a good long, all expenses paid, all inclusive holiday.

Oh wait......

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by kizzy

They both got 8yrs I thought?...

Put like that it's pretty harsh !!that is the tariff some get for horrific murders.

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by Pyramid*

Just to pick up on the point about The Sun and those who are saying rags like 'The Sun' etc are what leads to people requiring new identities etc.

No it is not. It it the unjustness of the sentence that causes that - and the resultant public outcry - it is the only way the public can voice their displeasure at those who pass the sentences. The Sun (and whatever other 'paper' - whether broadsheet or rag top) - they report on the news. This was (and now is) news.

It might not be the type of news we all agree with - but it's news regardless. Given that the Sun DID put up a hefty amount of money - the whole reason for the disgusting act to start off with - I see nothing wrong with them reporting on her release. Why should they not? She should be afforded no more privacy than any other released prisoner - regardless.

You do the crime, you do the time. Well, she in fact only did half the time that she was sentenced to on the inside: let her enjoy the remainder of 'her time' on the outside.

One more point - amazing to see how refreshed and trouble free she looks in comparison to all the previous photos shown of her - during Shannon's disappearance and all the photos that were available of her days 'pre Shannon's disappearance'. Prison hasn't exactly been a rigour for her by the looks of things. She's not aged beyond her years, she doesn't look ragged, she doesn't look stress, worried.

Yep, looks like Prison really had a detrimental affect on her physical healthy for starters (sarcasm there in case it was missed).... she looks far better than ever she did and though she's benefitted from a good long, all expenses paid, all inclusive holiday.

Oh wait......

I agree with the part where you say it is the paltry sentences that causes such outcry,lots of people are STILL angry at the paltry sentences given out to the killers of little James Bulger and that imo is the reason they are still at risk if found,although one of them is now safe in prison,I think if people are given a sentence that fits the crime we would sleep a little better at nights,some good points made there Pyramid.

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by Jack_

No, because your comments are reactionary and you take no consideration as to any potential side effects of vigilante action and what revealing her 'new identity' could lead to. It's all very well and good to sit there screaming and shouting 'death to paedos! death to rapists! death to kids who steal sweets!', preaching some sort of barbaric witch hunt, but I'm afraid in the long run it doesn't solve a thing, not to mention you just lower yourself to their level and we as a society endorse the very thing we're trying to eradicate...which is idiotic if you ask me.

As for 'psychos'...that's too broad a term. You could say bullies are 'psychos', but shall we kill them? I don't condone bullying in the slightest and think it should be punishable...but death? Then how far do you go, do we sentence those who steal to death? Those who swear? At what point do you stop?

Capital punishment is an awful, false attempt at 'justice'.

She didn't get 'a new identity'. She's had a change of hair colour and style, and put some make up on. It's something many people do on a weekly basis. Let's not blow it out of proportion.

If The Sun didn't post pictures, they would have been printed by some other publication house/company as well as plastered all over the internet by randoms.

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by kazanne

I agree with the part where you say it is the paltry sentences that causes such outcry,lots of people are STILL angry at the paltry sentences given out to the killers of little James Bulger and that imo is the reason they are still at risk if found,although one of them is now safe in prison,I think if people are given a sentence that fits the crime we would sleep a little better at nights,some good points made there Pyramid.

I do too Kazanne. I don't care what anyone else thinks: there is a point in very young years that children know right from wrong - and they know that if they can feel phyiscal pain on one hand, and they can feel 'emotional fear' on another - they then know what that feels like - so to inflict that on a.n.other - especially physical pain - they know EXACTLY what they are doing.

KM bangs on about her being put in a position by some person that she refuses to name, that she 'couldn't say' what was happening at the time - inferring that she was being forcibly coerced into this - indicating that she herself was being put in 'fear'.

Funny she never thought to consider that she herself was doing the exact same thing - but to her own flesh and blood. Now before anyone retorts with "perhaps this unknown person had said they would actually kill Shannon if KM blabbed"..... I could accept that - but given that she is 'still' (allegedly) refusing to name said person/people???

So keen she is for notorieity to continue that she wants to go on Jeremy Kyle. So much for rehabilitation - afterall - she's had plenty of JKyle shows to watch and see exactly who goes on them.

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by Pyramid*

I do too Kazanne. I don't care what anyone else thinks: there is a point in very young years that children know right from wrong - and they know that if they can feel phyiscal pain on one hand, and they can feel 'emotional fear' on another - they then know what that feels like - so to inflict that on a.n.other - especially physical pain - they know EXACTLY what they are doing.

KM bangs on about her being put in a position by some person that she refuses to name, that she 'couldn't say' what was happening at the time - inferring that she was being forcibly coerced into this - indicating that she herself was being put in 'fear'.

Funny she never thought to consider that she herself was doing the exact same thing - but to her own flesh and blood. Now before anyone retorts with "perhaps this unknown person had said they would actually kill Shannon if KM blabbed"..... I could accept that - but given that she is 'still' (allegedly) refusing to name said person/people???

So keen she is for notorieity to continue that she wants to go on Jeremy Kyle. So much for rehabilitation - afterall - she's had plenty of JKyle shows to watch and see exactly who goes on them.

Terrible,terrible woman,not fit to be called a mum,I wonder if Shannon ever wishes to see her?

[joeysteele]

In spite of all my words on this so far, I do agree with Ammi that a society where vigilantes were more evident would not be a good thing at all.

The point that jf and InOne and myself seem to be making is that the law is thing at fault here. Pyramid* and kazanne too.
Sadly the current likely maximum sentence for kidnap is around 8 years,however for me Shannon was also assaulted, by being given drugs to keep her more sedate shall we say.

Karen Matthews should have made sure that never happened and as to the 8 years max sentence for kidnap, in her case and the others involved for that matter, that 8 years should have meant that, 8 years served.

My main fear now is, can this woman be allowed anywhere near a child again,if as a Mother she could allow to happen to one of her own children, what happened to Shannon then she has to be, at the very least, to be seen to be unfit to be anywhere near a child in the future.

Thankfully,this case didn't result in loss of life to Shannon, but how near may it have been, what if Shannon had tried to run away.
(Little James Bulger,bless him, was mentioned above, that poor little lad, I when I first read that story was horrified).

When is the UK going to learn that children need protecting,in Shannon's case it is beyond belief that it could seem some may even need protecting from their own Mothers too.
That's almost as bad a scenario as vigilantes.

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by kazanne

Terrible,terrible woman,not fit to be called a mum,I wonder if Shannon ever wishes to see her?

See, I think this would be a difficult call for Shannon - because for all the world - regardless: KM is the mother that she grew up to know for so many years - and whilst she may not like what the mother did/was involved in that affected her (Shannon) - it's equally understandably that there is - as bizarre - as it may sound - still love for the person - (separating that from the person's actions)

Originally Posted by joeysteele

In spite of all my words on this so far, I do agree with Ammi that a society where vigilantes were more evident would not be a good thing at all.

The point that jf and InOne and myself seem to be making is that the law is thing at fault here. Pyramid* and kazanne too.
Sadly the current likely maximum sentence for kidnap is around 8 years,however for me Shannon was also assaulted, by being given drugs to keep her more sedate shall we say.

Karen Matthews should have made sure that never happened and as to the 8 years max sentence for kidnap, in her case and the others involved for that matter, that 8 years should have meant that, 8 years served.

My main fear now is, can this woman be allowed anywhere near a child again,if as a Mother she could allow to happen to one of her own children, what happened to Shannon then she has to be, at the very least, to be seen to be unfit to be anywhere near a child in the future.

Thankfully,this case didn't result in loss of life to Shannon, but how near may it have been, what if Shannon had tried to run away.
(Little James Bulger,bless him, was mentioned above, that poor little lad, I when I first read that story was horrified).

When is the UK going to learn that children need protecting,in Shannon's case it is beyond belief that it could seem some may even need protecting from their own Mothers too.
That's almost as bad a scenario as vigilantes.

It could so easily have turned out so very different. Shannon taking a bad reaction to whatever drugs she was given, given a lethal dose - even accidentally - taking a fit, hyperventilating through fear resulting in death etc.

I know this didn't happen but it does give rise to the dangers KM placed Shannon in nevertheless.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Pyramid*

See, I think this would be a difficult call for Shannon - because for all the world - regardless: KM is the mother that she grew up to know for so many years - and whilst she may not like what the mother did/was involved in that affected her (Shannon) - it's equally understandably that there is - as bizarre - as it may sound - still love for the person - (separating that from the person's actions)



It could so easily have turned out so very different. Shannon taking a bad reaction to whatever drugs she was given, given a lethal dose - even accidentally - taking a fit, hyperventilating through fear resulting in death etc.

I know this didn't happen but it does give rise to the dangers KM placed Shannon in nevertheless.

Absolutely, it is why I would like to see in these crimes,with 'intent' added to the charge as an offence too like it sometimes does come up in some other cases.

If someone is going to kidnap a child and keep them hidden away from society no matter for how long that may be, then there is intent against that child and should the child wish to leave and/or try to leave then that 'intent' could lead to really horrific results.

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

Absolutely, it is why I would like to see in these crimes,with 'intent' added to the charge as an offence too like it sometimes does come up in some other cases.

If someone is going to kidnap a child and keep them hidden away from society no matter for how long that may be, then there is intent against that child and should the child wish to leave and/or try to leave then that 'intent' could lead to really horrific results.

Add to that the very real long lasting psychological impact upon the child in question and the reparcussions that in all likeliehood, will follow her/haunt her for a long, long time.

It simply was not long enough a time - together with the fact that (we assume) that KM can continue to have more children should she wish to.

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

In spite of all my words on this so far, I do agree with Ammi that a society where vigilantes were more evident would not be a good thing at all.

The point that jf and InOne and myself seem to be making is that the law is thing at fault here. Pyramid* and kazanne too.
Sadly the current likely maximum sentence for kidnap is around 8 years,however for me Shannon was also assaulted, by being given drugs to keep her more sedate shall we say.

Karen Matthews should have made sure that never happened and as to the 8 years max sentence for kidnap, in her case and the others involved for that matter, that 8 years should have meant that, 8 years served.

My main fear now is, can this woman be allowed anywhere near a child again,if as a Mother she could allow to happen to one of her own children, what happened to Shannon then she has to be, at the very least, to be seen to be unfit to be anywhere near a child in the future.

Thankfully,this case didn't result in loss of life to Shannon, but how near may it have been, what if Shannon had tried to run away.
(Little James Bulger,bless him, was mentioned above, that poor little lad, I when I first read that story was horrified).

When is the UK going to learn that children need protecting,in Shannon's case it is beyond belief that it could seem some may even need protecting from their own Mothers too.
That's almost as bad a scenario as vigilantes.

Joey,you don't know the half of it (about James) and probably never will do,you'de be more than horrified,Karen M should have served at least 8+ years,she seems to have had quite a cushy time,why do crimes seem to be less significant if they are done by women or kids? I'm sure Baby Peters torturer,he is free isn't he ? what is all that about?not sure about his 'mother' Britain needs to grow some balls and lets have life for cold bloodied murders a very stiff sentence for kidnapping and such ,and less sentencing for money crimes as it seems the money crimes carry a stiffer sentence than any!!

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by kazanne

Joey,you don't know the half of it (about James) and probably never will do,you'de be more than horrified,Karen M should have served at least 8+ years,she seems to have had quite a cushy time,why do crimes seem to be less significant if they are done by women or kids? I'm sure Baby Peters torturer,he is free isn't he ? what is all that about?not sure about his 'mother' Britain needs to grow some balls and lets have life for cold bloodied murders a very stiff sentence for kidnapping and such ,and less sentencing for money crimes as it seems the money crimes carry a stiffer sentence than any!!

100% agree, and especially to the money crimes part too, it's likely a reason why people like Matthews don't get to serve longer sentences because of people kept in prison for money matters rather than violent or physical crimes.