[Alf]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

I find it amusing (in a sad way) that theres 'no magic money tree' that could give nurses a payrise so they don't need to use foodbanks, but there is a magic money tree that created 1b to keep May in power

There wouldn't be no food banks with Corbyn, they'd just starve to death instead.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Alf

There wouldn't be no food banks with Corbyn, they'd just starve to death instead.

How do you reckon that?

I find it disgraceful that in a rich country we have so many going to foodbanks tbh. And yes they existed under labour too but they weren't used in such high numbers. Noone who is working should ever have to use a foodbank IMO

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

I find it amusing (in a sad way) that theres 'no magic money tree' that could give nurses a payrise so they don't need to use foodbanks, but there is a magic money tree that created 1b to keep May in power

It's difficult, are you saying that Northern Ireland doesn't need the investment? Because I'm pretty sure it does. Any windfall is pretty good for that part of the UK.

I'm a little sceptical about the whole nurses and food banks thing, this seems like some kind of spin to me. A fully qualified nurse earns £22 - 28,000 pa (actually I think its more like up to 35k) that's a fairly decent wage by most pay standards. I know plenty of people in that pay scale who don't have to use food banks. I'm not saying nurses, paramedics, police officers, fire fighters don't deserve pay rises but I think this issue is losing perspective. Peoples circumstances are all different and to say 'nurses need to use food banks' is not taking into account any of the personal circumstances around that.

I find it disgraceful in 2017 that there are people living rough on the streets but again people have circumstances and we don't always know what they are and how they came to be there, it's easy to blame the government.

[Alf]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

How do you reckon that?

I find it disgraceful that in a rich country we have so many going to foodbanks tbh. And yes they existed under labour too but they weren't used in such high numbers. Noone who is working should ever have to use a foodbank IMO

That's the usually outcome in any communist country. History tells us that.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by jaxie

It's difficult, are you saying that Northern Ireland doesn't need the investment? Because I'm pretty sure it does. Any windfall is pretty good for that part of the UK.

I'm a little sceptical about the whole nurses and food banks thing, this seems like some kind of spin to me. A fully qualified nurse earns £22 - 28,000 pa that's a fairly decent wage by most pay standards. I know plenty of people in that pay scale who don't have to use food banks. I'm not saying nurses, paramedics, police officers, fire fighters don't deserve pay rises but I think this issue is losing perspective.

How are you sure, what do you know about NI that makes you sure?

But you are skeptical about nurses because 22k is a 'decent wage'? Is it... Lets have a breakdown for expenses for the average nurse, lets say those who were treating the Grenfell victims. How far does their 22k go?

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by jaxie

It's difficult, are you saying that Northern Ireland doesn't need the investment? Because I'm pretty sure it does. Any windfall is pretty good for that part of the UK.

I'm a little sceptical about the whole nurses and food banks thing, this seems like some kind of spin to me. A fully qualified nurse earns £22 - 28,000 pa (actually I think its more like up to 35k) that's a fairly decent wage by most pay standards. I know plenty of people in that pay scale who don't have to use food banks. I'm not saying nurses, paramedics, police officers, fire fighters don't deserve pay rises but I think this issue is losing perspective. Peoples circumstances are all different and to say 'nurses need to use food banks' is not taking into account any of the personal circumstances around that.

I find it disgraceful in 2017 that there are people living rough on the streets but again people have circumstances and we don't always know what they are and how they came to be there, it's easy to blame the government.

No. everywhere in the UK needs investment tbh.

I just find it funny that there is no money for anything, but May can pull a billion out of her arse at the drop of a hat. Kind of like how theres no money for the NHS and so but we have plenty of money for bombs and airstrikes to other countries

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

How are you sure, what do you know about NI that makes you sure?

But you are skeptical about nurses because 22k is a 'decent wage'? Is it... Lets have a breakdown for expenses for the average nurse, lets say those who were treating the Grenfell victims. How far does their 22k go?

I know enough about NI to form an opinion, thanks. You can learn more if you read or make some friends that live there.

You go right ahead if you want to break down some expenses, far be it from me to stop you.

Why are you using Grenfall victims for your political agenda? That's pretty low IMO.

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

No. everywhere in the UK needs investment tbh.

I just find it funny that there is no money for anything, but May can pull a billion out of her arse at the drop of a hat. Kind of like how theres no money for the NHS and so but we have plenty of money for bombs and airstrikes to other countries

Well May is desperate. She has very badly miscalculated and lost her majority. It's not that funny really, of course she is going to find some money to get her out of the doo doo if she can. I will be very surprised if she survives 6 months. The bottom line is that we do have a large deficit so don't really have plenty money for any gov to spend and that's bad news for all of us but I suspect an awful lot of money is wasted. The problem is that with no rosy coloured glasses on, we aren't going to be in a better position with Labour and they probably wouldn't behave any differently were they in the same position. There is really no Corbyn on a white charger. There is just another shambles with a slightly different set of priorities.

What we really need right now is some stability.

[jet]

Originally Posted by jaxie

You're selective reading again. You didn't get any of the heartfelt pain in Jet's post at all did you? You're pontificating about a very difficult situation that people have lived in a very painful way and been torn apart by.

Thanks for understanding jaxie

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by jaxie

You're selective reading again. You didn't get any of the heartfelt pain in Jet's post at all did you? You're pontificating about a very difficult situation that people have lived in a very painful way and been torn apart by.

Repeating what I said to your friend isn't an argument.

I do not know Jet and this is the internet, I won't really be taken in by the 'heartfelt pain' when there's no way to know if any of it is true or not so I'd rather stick to logic.

Hating one party for terrorist links but then jumping through hoops to defend another for also having links to terrorism is just plain hypocritical, there's just no two ways about it.

Originally Posted by jet

Once again you are calling me a liar.

....and I asked you 2 questions and you dodged both of them.

Why has he still any power? There could be many reasons. Maybe it's because there has been a peace process - The Labour gov. sneakily sent amnesty letters to IRA killers on the run - murderers were released from prison agreed by all parties - Sinn Fein are a legit political party even though it has past killers still in its ranks so....

....Why would the opposition want to bring up Corbyns links of years ago when both governments agreed to let actual killers go free ?
Would bringing it all up affect the peace process and the sensitive situation in N.Ireland? Or maybe they know that his supporters just won't care? Or they just don't care themselves? (Though some of them do as they have brought up his links and condemned him on TV.)
And what is this 'smoking gun' you speak of? There has been plenty of articles and mentions on news programmes of his activities but it's obvious that it doesn't matter to many, (look at how many on here don't care or refuse to believe it) so what would be the point? They'd just root for him all the more.

He didn't kill anyone outright himself. It's a moral issue and its down to the conscience of each individual whether or not to admire and root for a man who was personally great pals with and a supporter of the killers of many innocent woman and children.

When did I call you a liar? I said that the accusations must not have any merit based on the fact that he has not been removed from his position.

'....Why would the opposition want to bring up Corbyns links of years ago when both governments agreed to let actual killers go free ? '

Well that's obvious, linking him to terrorism would force the rest of the Labour leadership into trying to force him out if it was true. MPs are made to step down when they are caught having affairs yet you don't think accusations of being a terrorist sympathiser would be enough to remove him from power if it was true?

Given how the media overanalyzes everything he does for reasons to slate him, it's this media that's made a point of bringing up the whole 'traitor' business so if you put 2 and 2 together you'll come to the conclusion that any 'links' to terrorism is likely overblown by a media that wants to ruin him.

It does not make a lick of sense that he'd still be in power if any of this business is true.

[jet]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Repeating what I said to your friend isn't an argument.

I do not know Jet and this is the internet, I won't really be taken in by the 'heartfelt pain' when there's no way to know if any of it is true or not so I'd rather stick to logic.

Hating one party for terrorist links but then jumping through hoops to defend another for also having links to terrorism is just plain hypocritical, there's just no two ways about it.

Then why on earth have you been conversing with me for many posts if you think I'm some kind of fraud? No, you are a wriggler. You were called out on your lack of compassion and only then decided I'm now not legit. You've wasted my time and your own as well.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by jaxie

I know enough about NI to form an opinion, thanks. You can learn more if you read or make some friends that live there.

You go right ahead if you want to break down some expenses, far be it from me to stop you.

Why are you using Grenfall victims for your political agenda? That's pretty low IMO.

Well help the rest of us out then who have no clue how NI is funded.. How is it comparable to say Scotland or Wales in terms of expenditure per head of the population?...

I am using Grenfell as an example as the nurses were based in London and it's well documented how well and how efficient the response was by those hospitals and yet they are denied a raise and in effect being accused of lying that they are finding it difficult to manage on the salary they receive. That is pretty low... imo

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Well help the rest of us out then who have no clue how NI is funded.. How is it comparable to say Scotland or Wales in terms of expenditure per head of the population?...

I am using Grenfell as an example as the nurses were based in London and it's well documented how well and how efficient the response was by those hospitals and yet they are denied a raise and in effect being accused of lying that they are finding it difficult to manage on the salary they receive. That is pretty low... imo

And none of this has any relevance to what I've said. I'm not paid to educate you. I'll take a leaf out of your book and suggest you stop trolling me.

And still you are using a tragic fire as a means to further an agenda.

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Repeating what I said to your friend isn't an argument.

I do not know Jet and this is the internet, I won't really be taken in by the 'heartfelt pain' when there's no way to know if any of it is true or not so I'd rather stick to logic.

Hating one party for terrorist links but then jumping through hoops to defend another for also having links to terrorism is just plain hypocritical, there's just no two ways about it.



When did I call you a liar? I said that the accusations must not have any merit based on the fact that he has not been removed from his position.

'....Why would the opposition want to bring up Corbyns links of years ago when both governments agreed to let actual killers go free ? '

Well that's obvious, linking him to terrorism would force the rest of the Labour leadership into trying to force him out if it was true. MPs are made to step down when they are caught having affairs yet you don't think accusations of being a terrorist sympathiser would be enough to remove him from power if it was true?

Given how the media overanalyzes everything he does for reasons to slate him, it's this media that's made a point of bringing up the whole 'traitor' business so if you put 2 and 2 together you'll come to the conclusion that any 'links' to terrorism is likely overblown by a media that wants to ruin him.

It does not make a lick of sense that he'd still be in power if any of this business is true.

I don't have a relationship with Jet outside responding/reading his/her posts but I didn't need one, I read them, and I can see there is element of pain of experience in what is being said.

I can also see you are lecturing Jet with little substance to your opinion, because you seem to enjoy it rather than engaging in a discussion.

[Toy Soldier]

I'm sorry if this is harsh (and I know it is, maybe, a little harsh) but... the pain of his experiences is exactly why I personally don't think there's much point in debating with jet on the subjects of N.I. / the DUP / Corbyn etc... the emotion level there is clearly very high and there is just no objectivity. I did say that to jet I think on probably the first or second day after the DUP deal was suggested as some initially very balanced and informative posts quickly went sideways when old anger / emotions were stirred up.

Now I will say it is 100% understandable for people to have strong emotions attached to these things. No one is a robot, we all have our pressure points. However the chance of there being any sort of reasoned, balanced and grounded discussion on the subject with someone so heavily involved on a personal level is pretty much zero.

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I'm sorry if this is harsh (and I know it is, maybe, a little harsh) but... the pain of his experiences is exactly why I personally don't think there's much point in debating with jet on the subjects of N.I. / the DUP / Corbyn etc... the emotion level there is clearly very high and there is just no objectivity. I did say that to jet I think on probably the first or second day after the DUP deal was suggested as some initially very balanced and informative posts quickly went sideways when old anger / emotions were stirred up.

Now I will say it is 100% understandable for people to have strong emotions attached to these things. No one is a robot, we all have our pressure points. However the chance of there being any sort of reasoned, balanced and grounded discussion on the subject with someone so heavily involved on a personal level is pretty much zero.

I disagree with you TS, I think that is unfair. You are clearly passionate about some subjects but no one here patronises you and suggests you are too emotional to discuss it.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by jaxie

I don't have a relationship with Jet outside responding/reading his/her posts but I didn't need one, I read them, and I can see there is element of pain of experience in what is being said.

I can also see you are lecturing Jet with little substance to your opinion, because you seem to enjoy it rather than engaging in a discussion.

I was speaking of Brillo but never mind.

Also as for your second paragraph.

opinion
əˈpɪnjən/Submit
noun
1.
a view or judgement formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge.
"that, in my opinion, is right"
synonyms: belief, judgement, thought(s), school of thought, thinking, way of thinking, mind, point of view, view, viewpoint, outlook, angle, slant, side, attitude, stance, perspective, position, standpoint; More
2.
a statement of advice by an expert on a professional matter.
"if in doubt, get a second opinion"

Just in case you aren't sure what one is since I wasn't lecturing anyone but simply sharing my opinion, something that I'm entitled to do and something that isn't limited to people whose opinions you agree with.

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

I was speaking of Brillo but never mind.

Also as for your second paragraph.

opinion
əˈpɪnjən/Submit
noun
1.
a view or judgement formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge.
"that, in my opinion, is right"
synonyms: belief, judgement, thought(s), school of thought, thinking, way of thinking, mind, point of view, view, viewpoint, outlook, angle, slant, side, attitude, stance, perspective, position, standpoint; More
2.
a statement of advice by an expert on a professional matter.
"if in doubt, get a second opinion"

Just in case you aren't sure what one is since I wasn't lecturing anyone but simply sharing my opinion, something that I'm entitled to do and something that isn't limited to people whose opinions you agree with.

It's a shame you don't take a leaf then.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by jaxie

And none of this has any relevance to what I've said. I'm not paid to educate you. I'll take a leaf out of your book and suggest you stop trolling me.

And still you are using a tragic fire as a means to further an agenda.

It has relevance... Why are the govt choosing now to aid NI and not for example Wales?
Because they don't need 10 Plaid Cymru votes is why, it's been admitted in interviews that the votes were sought to keep Corbyn out of office it's a bribe from an increasingly corrupt govt.

I have no agenda, you have no basis for your claim that the nurses affected were dishonest, your smokescreen of faux outrage is proof of that.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by jaxie

I disagree with you TS, I think that is unfair. You are clearly passionate about some subjects but no one here patronises you and suggests you are too emotional to discuss it.

I can freely admit that I have pressure-subjects that I can't be objective about. The first (and main one) is alcohol / alcoholism, another is probably autism, though I can mostly keep a level head on that one. I'm not saying I don't or wouldn't discuss those subjects but in all honesty my opinions, especially when it comes to alcohol, are always going to be skewed and I wouldn't pretend otherwise.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by jaxie

It's a shame you don't take a leaf then.

'I know you are but what am I?'

SD is rapidly becoming a nursery it seems. What next? Mom jokes?

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

It has relevance... Why are the govt choosing now to aid NI and not for example Wales?
Because they don't need 10 Plaid Cymru votes is why, it's been admitted in interviews that the votes were sought to keep Corbyn out of office it's a bribe from an increasingly corrupt govt.

I already mentioned earlier why the gov are giving NI money, but I definitely don't begrudge NI it. If you aren't going to read what I say then stop quoting me, it's getting ridiculous.

I have no agenda, you have no basis for your claim that the nurses affected were dishonest, your smokescreen of faux outrage is proof of that.

I can't discuss this with you, referencing horrible tragedies to try to point score disgusts me.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by jaxie

I already mentioned earlier why the gov are giving NI money, but I definitely don't begrudge NI it. If you aren't going to read what I say then stop quoting me, it's getting ridiculous.



I can't discuss this with you, referencing horrible tragedies to try to point score disgusts me.

Why now?... why not at any other point over the last 7yrs, to suggest it's nothing to do with buying votes is frankly naive.

Then why enter a debate? You have no answer for your accusations, that's the real reason, your indignation is laughable.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Why now?... why not at any other point over the last 7yrs, to suggest it's nothing to do with buying votes is frankly naive.

Then why enter a debate? You have no answer for your accusations, that's the real reason, your indignation is laughable.

the only person buying votes is santa corbyn ...usually to workless people (The bulk of labour voters) with borrowed money we cant afford to pay back

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by the truth

the only person buying votes is santa corbyn ...usually to workless people (The bulk of labour voters) with borrowed money we cant afford to pay back