[Angus]

This is PEJ's post from the DS Forum:

Hello
Thought I might just address some things you've been talking about on the DS BB Forum. Those of a high strung disposition should probably look away now as I may not say the things you want to hear (which, if I'm not mistaken, is "sorry sorry sorry we got it wrong, everything is rubbish and we couldn't "Produce" a "fart").

Still here? OK...

Rather than doing that I thought I'd try and explain the processes involved in trying to put a the show together and that might perhaps help you to understand some of the constraints, pressures and practical issues that are all factors in how the end product emerges onto our TV screens.
Before that, though, a word on the "Soap Opera" thing that seems to have caused such a furore. I should say that I have always referred to it a a Soap Opera - albeit a real life Soap, where everyday dramas are played out in real time with real people (I did an interview on BBC Breakfast News on the day of launch where I talked about it being a Soap). In fact before the very first series the Execs at the time met with Soap Opera producers to talk about how Soaps were put together to get a sense of how that kind of narrative structure works... Calling it a Soap doesn't mean it's scripted like Coronation Street. So, to be clear, we think of this as a real-life Soap Opera (much in the way many of us describe our daily lives).

Next - this whole thing about "Chosen Ones" and "Good Edits/Bad Edits". We don't have an egenda. It doesn't matter to us who wins - there is nothing in it for us. We don't benefit from any subsequent media deals ex Housemates do, it has no impact on us whatseoever. Of course we're all human here (honestly, even me) and - just like you - we find some housemates more entertaining than others (eg, I found Ben very funny and miss him in the house, but that's BB - the entertaining ones sometimes go. Not that he entertained everyone, plenty of people didn't like him. No one here ever suggested giving him a "good edit" to keep him in. I am not sure that's even possible, the real person always appears on screen and people at home make up their own minds). The fact is the show is edited and editing is by it's very nature a process of selection. It may be that you and I would make some different choices about what we thought was important to show when we came to condensing 24 hours into 45 minutes of TV. It's also true that you could show 2 people the same piece of footage of someone and those 2 people would have 2 different views on that person based on their own prejudices and whether they fundamentally liked or disliked that person. The "editing" takes place in the edit suite and in the minds of each individual viewer at home.

To help your understanding of how we get to the choices we make, this is how it works here on a practical level: There are 11 Day Producers; they work on a shift system which broadly speaking means they do a Gallery Shift (where they are the voice of Big Brother, talk to housemates in the diary room and manage the days activities in the house). The other shift they do is a 24 hour "Story Producing" shift. Basically they sit there, watch the whole day and commission stories as the day continues. The reason we do it this way is that that 24 hour shift allows the producer to get a proper overview of the day (say, for example, an argument takes place at 7pm. If you weren't watching for the entire 24 hour period you might have missed that the roots of that argument were in a comment someone made earlier that day. As you're there all day you can go back to that, make sure it's in ther show and give the thing context.) Each Story Producer tries their very best to present a fair view of the day. We have strict rules about following timelines and not editing things out of context. But you can't show everything. Once the Producer has created the first cut of the show with the overnight editors it's then viewed by a Senior Producer who helps polish it, interrogates it to make sure everything that's in the show is there for a reason and gets it ready for a 9.30 morning viewing with the Executive Producer, the Channel 4 Commissioning editor, The Lawyer and me. We watch it and make notes (and there are often wildly differing viewpoints flying round the edit suite) and then the rest of the day is spent with the senior producer making the agreed changes and polishing it up so it's fit for broadcast.
So the show goes through many hands before it gets to air, and each of those people have a different perspective and approach. No system is perfect, but this is an approach that gives us the best possible chance of creating a show that's balanced across the series and is also an entertainingly told story (or Soap Opera).
NOTE: Before you pounce on the word "story" and come back with "Stories are WRITTEN and therefore fictional so it proves BB is scripted to the Producers AGENDA" - please remember there is such a thing as a true story/a real life story and so on.

Meanwhile, back in the office, our Task Team are in the room next door to me prepping their tasks. We have had on average 2 tasks per day happeing in the house. The tasks are designed fopr their entertainment value and to test HMS. 90 per cent of the tasks were dreamed up, agreed and scheduled in before the series went on air (ie, The Shopping Tasks and Save and Replace tasks). Then we have a big folder of mini tasks (for treats etc) that are prepped and ready to go when we feel we need them). Some things we think of more on the hoof (like the Tree of Temptation Hits which are more spontaneous and based on what we are watching in the house). In truth we have spent more time on those things than we have on devising punishments. I can understand why some people think it may have been inconsistent. Noms talk isn't always as clear cut as it might first appear for example (and we watch all these things back) so we have punished clear and blatant rule breaks. That's not to say we may have missed a couple which we should have picked up on.

Finally: we did adopt a slightly different approach to this year's show when we came to talking about the tone before we began. We wanted it to feel warmer and be skewed towards the funny rather than the nasty. We also thought that because it's the last one on Channel 4 we had the opportunity to play with the rules a little bit. You've also got to remember that BB is a show constantly under scrutiny from all angles and over the years we have accumulated constraints and we do have to be a litle bit careful about what we do. These constraints are, of course, one factor amongst many that helped us along the way to our decision to keep it lighter.

Ultimately as producers on this show we are damned if we do and damned if we don't, and when I read frothed up posts on here complaining about how the show is produced when I read between the lines you pretty much always spot that it because the person posting doesn't (or does) like a particular housemate and they think that person is getting a rough ride (or someone else isn't). That's the soap bit too - heroes and villains, everything in black and white. Meanwhile: ratings are up, audience appreciation is up and the show's doing well by all the usual telly measures.

What BB has taught me over the years is that people are complicated - we have good and bad in all of us. Different people draw different things from us in terms of character. We aren't just one thing or another. We aren't just "real" or "fake", "nice" or "vile", a "victim" or a "bully" - we are, all of us, all those things and more. I have interviewed and selected countless housemates over the years, I may have liked some more than others and, from a producer's perspective, thought some brought more to the show than others, but I can say have had respect for pretty much all of them for taking part in this show and exposing their personalities for us all to discuss.

It's a very long post this - I am sure there lots to highlight in black and throw back in my face. I know there will be some inconsistincies and contradictions between things I've said here and elsewhere but WTF - life's full of them.
All the very best pej

am off for a pre flounce flounce now.... "



Any thoughts?

[WOMBAI]

All well and good - but his brief mention of inconsistency in punishments seems weak to say the least! I don't see how they can miss anything - and the punishment dished out to JJ and Josie for the repeated removal of microphones (and probably noms talk) was not of the same severity as the punishments dished out to Dave for no worse! Total inconsistency - they are supposed to be professionals at what they do - we certainly haven't seen much of that!

And all the airtime given to the 'showmance' - blatant unfairness! Bound to benefit those involved.

They have to defend themselves, whether there be any truth in said allegations or not! He isn't really likely to say anthing else is he!

[LaLaLand]

He spelt agenda incorrectly.

[Jack_]

It'd be nice if he could now reply to the criticism regarding this awful Vote to Evict decision he has made. Oh, and the sh!tty gimmicks.

[Omah]

Originally Posted by angus58

This is PEJ's post from the DS Forum:

Hello
.
.
.
.

All the very best pej

am off for a pre flounce flounce now.... "



Any thoughts?

I can't be botherted to read it - the conceited man's incompetent, deluded and unable to accept criticism of his destruction of a once-iconic television series .....

[Patrick]

Oh this is going to be such a great read watching this guy try to defend the show

He thinks DS are bad? He should come here and be attacked by angry passionate BB Fans.

[Angus]

He says that the HLs footage is reviewed by several producers before being finalised, so how come negative footage about JJ1 and Dave is NEVER shown?

[fingers]

It's an exercise in CYA and like "HIS" show it is an abject failure!

[Beastie]

PEJ should get his arse on this website.

**** DS!!!!

Anyway.. I feel sorry for him. He is trying his best and even the fans are complaining about the show they allegedly "love".

Anyway.. yeah I think there has been too much of Josie and JJ.. and the cameras always focusing on them but there are dilluded bufoons who are so into the "fake romance storyline".

Anyway.. there are things we all like about BB.. things I personally would like to see tweaked up a bit.. such as the punishments..

John James and Josie should have been put up for eviction straight away after the meddling with the microphones.. but all know.. a majority of dilluded fools will complain about this outside the forum.. some in the forum.

Therefore I agree with PEJ.. they are damned if they do.. damned if they don't. They are just trying their best and can't always get it right!!

I think PEJ is glad this is the last BB.. then he can get away on holiday!!

Then hopefully BB can return next year or in a few years with new people to get their hands on it!!!!

Thankyou PEJ for the 11 years of Big Brother you have given us!

The majority of Big Brother I have enjoyed.

So.. thankyou x

[BB_Eye]

I'm surprised how inarticulate he is. Using the word "interrogate" where he should have used "scrutinise".

On the whole "story" thing. What he fails to understand is that once reality is told as a story, like it or not, it immediately becomes fiction.

I think he has a point that it is impossible to get a seriously in-depth account of the events of 24 hours in the house when it is condensed into 45 minutes, but the editors have still been disingenuous on a number of occasions. Most notable being the omission of Sunshine throwing water on John James from the HL's, which let up vaginagate. So many of the events shown that night were inconsequential/trivial and yet they still needed to leave such an important incident out. How does he go about explaining that?

While I've never been a fan of Phil Edgar Jones, I respect him for coming out and answering some criticisms, but he is not going to change anyone's mind any time soon.

[Patrick]

Well that was a waste of my life, that.

I thought he'd explain why he picked the worse cast for BB:AS or why this series has been such an insult to fans or why they have done no twists etc

[ILoveTRW]

I want an apology, not more ****.

[Ithinkiloveyoutoo]

man that's long! i'll read later I never know what anyone means by PEJ.

[Beastie]

God.. I mean yeah everyone complains about BB.. I do at times but give PEJ a break.. if it is such a sh!t series.. switch over the ****ing channel. I don't give a sh!t if you are a passionate fan or not!! You are the ones that have sent Big Brother down into the ground because you ALWAYS have something to complain about!

[boomoo]

Originally Posted by WOMBAI

All well and good - but his brief mention of inconsistency in punishments seems weak to say the least! I don't see how they can miss anything - and the punishment dished out to JJ and Josie for the repeated removal of microphones (and probably noms talk) was not of the same severity as the punishments dished out to Dave for no worse! Total inconsistency - they are supposed to be professionals at what they do - we certainly haven't seen much of that!

And all the airtime given to the 'showmance' - blatant unfairness! Bound to benefit those involved.

They have to defend themselves, whether there be any truth in said allegations or not! He isn't really likely to say anthing else is he!

I agree with you. Of course they can write a piece that accuses forum uses as being fat thin evil etc but the fact remains: John James and Josie have had more air time than any other housemate. Until very recently it was the only camera shot that we had in the a.m. Hours of voyerism by the camera person: Will they won't they? John James said he never would so why have the camera on them when other housemates were up and about?

Too many people feel that BB11 has been made around those two to the detriment of the other housemates.
I want to know why JJ1 has not been punished for him telling Josie that she is number one favourite.

[boomoo]

Originally Posted by boomoo

I agree with you. Of course they can write a piece that accuses forum uses as being fat thin evil etc but the fact remains: John James and Josie have had more air time than any other housemate. Until very recently it was the only camera shot that we had in the a.m. Hours of voyerism by the camera person: Will they won't they? John James said he never would so why have the camera on them when other housemates were up and about?

Too many people feel that BB11 has been made around those two to the detriment of the other housemates.
I want to know why JJ1 has not been punished for him telling Josie that she is number one favourite.

Again BBLB saying Josie nominated JJ2 as a joke. Er no. She does not like him greasing round JJ1 all the time.

[psychtracker]

...the usual PR spin machine...

My favourite bit was :

Originally Posted by angus58

Next - this whole thing about "Chosen Ones" and "Good Edits/Bad Edits". We don't have an egenda.

FFS...they have an AGENDA before they even enter the house, which is evident by the way they work the launch crowd into a boos or cheering frenzy depending on whom they have pre-chosen as the heroes or villains!!!

I think one of the biggest issues with BB and production, is that as the show has developed - there's inevitably going to a be a tiredness amongst their staff, everything gets too formulaic, and the direct producers may also develop something of a "god complex" in the way they view, treat and attempt to manipulate the housemates. I really think the very best way to run a show like BB would have been to hire a completely NEW production team for EVERY series, to keep a fresh edge, less bias and fewer AGENDA's.

[GiRTh]

A load of flannel without actually saying anything.

It's also true that you could show 2 people the same piece of footage of someone and those 2 people would have 2 different views on that person based on their own prejudices and whether they fundamentally liked or disliked that person."

Is he saying the production staff can't be unbiased and impartial? Surely a team working together toward a common goal would get over their own personal prejudices.

That is a long ass post that says nothing.

[Omah]

Originally Posted by GiRTh

A load of flannel without actually saying anything.

That is a long ass post that says nothing.

Exactly ..... it's full of and BS .....

[ElProximo]

What a great insight and I hope every hardcore BB fan takes the time to read that through.
Great stuff!

Of course the uber-fans online are so involved we get to micro-analyze nearly every minute detail and want to criticize every blink of an eye,
yet,
maybe we do not step back enough and realize that BBUK is one of the best of the best in production value. Anywhere.
In the UK.
It's one of the best produced television shows in the world.

Another thing I enjoyed was the explanation of how a 'story' is worked through each day.
We discussed this in another thread just yesterday. Not only that but there is not just a 'daily story' but then those in context of their week and then entire 'journey' through the house.

Great insights and fans should be thankful to get a great inside view on what happens behind the walls day in and day out.

.............sure and of course we will keep micro-inspecting and be hyper-critical of each and every turn heh

[crocs]

I can't help but wonder if the producers really have no agenda in it. I understand that they don't get any money or more publicity depending on who wins, but I doubt they can say they won't analyse how a certain edit affects peoples' views and voting, and how they can manipulate the audience. I would love to make a thesis out of it.

[as90]

Not impressed, it's all a money making scheme for C4, it's throwing people the the lions. The guy sound a bit of a novice.

[Fuzzylogic]

That was a well thought out, eloquent, respectful and insightful post. The best thing i have read on these forums.

I think the most important thing to take from this post if this

Next - this whole thing about "Chosen Ones" and "Good Edits/Bad Edits". We don't have an egenda. It doesn't matter to us who wins - there is nothing in it for us. We don't benefit from any subsequent media deals ex Housemates do, it has no impact on us whatseoever.

That makes so much more sense that the conspiacy theories I read on here.

[Fuzzylogic]

Another important part is this:

What BB has taught me over the years is that people are complicated - we have good and bad in all of us. Different people draw different things from us in terms of character. We aren't just one thing or another. We aren't just "real" or "fake", "nice" or "vile", a "victim" or a "bully"

This why it annoys me when people talk about housemates being "fake" or "game players." Remember they are human being just like us with a whole range of feelings, thoughts and emotions. People are not "black and white" we are shades of grey.

[stonedape]

Some good bits in there, some BS, but the part people on forums need to listen to is:

Originally Posted by angus58

It's also true that you could show 2 people the same piece of footage of someone and those 2 people would have 2 different views on that person based on their own prejudices and whether they fundamentally liked or disliked that person. The "editing" takes place in the edit suite and in the minds of each individual viewer at home.

I don't think enough people complaining about the editing realize that their complaints are mostly confirmation bias. Seeking confirmation that it's all a nasty plot against their favorite or a nasty plot in favor of who they dislike. They're looking for bias with a fine comb, every second of every episode. It's a wonder they enjoy the show at all.