[InOne]

Do you think there is any reason why they really have not moved up in the social ladder after the years they've been here? I mean, you see the massive estates in London which is basically a society in it's own, they've never seemed to really properly intergrate. And how have this gangster culture adopted from the yanks. So many come from broken homes.

People always say we should listen to them, but what do they actually want? And what do they think could help them better their lives?

[lostalex]

Are black people as a group doing well anywhere? People say it because of racism, but even in countries where they are the majority, they don't seem to do well. Africa is by far the poorest continent in the world. East asians seem to do great in majority white countries, so you can't blame racism for lack of social mobility. Jews have been horribly oppressed, but they seem to do just fine. I think there is more to it than just racism.

It's an interesting question, and unfortunately i think because of political correctness one that will not be answered anytime soon.

[InOne]

Originally Posted by lostalex

Are black people as a group doing well anywhere? People say it because of racism, but even in countries where they are the majority, they don't seem to do well. Africa is by far the poorest continent in the world. East asians seem to do great in majority white countries, so you can't blame racism for lack of social mobility. Jews have been horribly oppressed, but they seem to do just fine. I think there is more to it than just racism.

It's an interesting question, and unfortunately i think because of political correctness one that will not be answered anytime soon.

I think you're right

[ILoveTRW]

If you think Blacks are not integrated into the society then you really have no idea what it is like up north with all the asians

[Zippy]

Education. Black culture just doesn't value education. Its not cool to carry books, be seen at a library, gain high qualifications etc etc. Then there's the lack of good male role models. In London particularly, crime amongst black males is of a shockingly high level. Of course, nobodies allowed to point to it without being branded racist. Which is why the problem will never be truly addressed or dealt with.

Everybody in power is tiptoeing around the real issues. Ive read many times elsewhere that the reason the police held back was because of the ethnic make up of the initial riots. If they were white football hooligans they'd be in there like a shot with batons and a heavy hand.

Truth is many of the real root problems stem from black culture itself. How they raise their young and the media influences they worship; for instance, hip hop positively glamorises crime whilst at the same time sending the message that you need the bling to be a somebody. Thats a lethal mixed message that brainwashes black kids from a very young age. Rappers bragging about bullet wounds and prison sentences...then on mtv cribs bragging about all their material goods. Well how the hell do they think their fans are gonna acquire such goods themselves? With no education, crime is the only way.

Education, schools, books and libraries are accessible to ALL kids in this country. Any child of any colour can work hard and get great qualifications. I know its still hard to get a job with qualifications but a young black male with no qualifications stands little chance. They have to be encouraged to work hard and get all their material goods in a legitimate way. But its like they don't want to have to work for anything. Again, lousy role models.

[Livia]

I think poor white males suffer in much the same way as young black males; they are castigated, will probably leave school without qualifications and if they do look for a job they will struggle to find work. Like young black men they have few role models and may well lack a male influence in their life. They have also been overlooked historically in favour of people from ethnic minorities due to positive discrimination. No wonder so many have absorbed themselves into black culture because being white and working class is not a good thing be these days. Black culture is seen as cool, where as white working class culture has been reduced to one word: “chav”. I saw a post on Yahoo during the height of the riots which said, “If the white working-class of this country had any fight left in them, it would have been them rioting”.

I want to say that this is a difficult and potentially inflammable subject dealt with on this thread with great eloquence, subtlety and tact.

[LeatherTrumpet]

Give me 2 twin children


bring one up in hackney with a feckless mum and no dad and they will probably grow up as feckless


bring the other up in a middle class family in bath and they will probably grow up a useful member of society with a career and nice family.

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

Give me 2 twin children


bring one up in hackney with a feckless mum and no dad and they will probably grow up as feckless


bring the other up in a middle class family in bath and they will probably grow up a useful member of society with a career and nice family.

So you are saying it's nurture over nature. I agree. But what you are really saying is culture over over race.

So what does that say about "multiculturalism"?

[LeatherTrumpet]

Originally Posted by lostalex

So you are saying it's nurture over nature. I agree. But what you are really saying is culture over over race.

So what does that say about "multiculturalism"?

that would depend on what you mean by multiculturalism

for me the word does not exist

[InOne]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

that would depend on what you mean by multiculturalism

for me the word does not exist

Why is that? (Out of curiosity)

[AfroMullet]

I dont really think this is a forum you will get any answers that actually hold any weight on. Unless there has been a mass serge of black people signin up since i was last here, how can anyone else really give a point of view. That said, im only one person i can speak for us all but still. I'll write up a proper answer tomoro, im tired now, racism is still alive and kickin though i dont care what anyone says.

[Wildcat!]

Originally Posted by AfroMullet

I dont really think this is a forum you will get any answers that actually hold any weight on. Unless there has been a mass serge of black people signin up since i was last here, how can anyone else really give a point of view. That said, im only one person i can speak for us all but still. I'll write up a proper answer tomoro, im tired now, racism is still alive and kickin though i dont care what anyone says.

Thank you! And thats why, I dont even bother responding to these kind of threds anymore, I use to, but it seems to fall into deaf ears.
But the usual suspects, remain the same.

So now, I just read them, shake my head, and laugh!

[SoBig]

Originally Posted by Wildcat!

Thank you! And thats why, I dont even bother responding to these kind of threds anymore, I use to, but it seems to fall into deaf ears.
But the usual suspects, remain the same.

So now, I just read them, shake my head, and laugh!

Amen.

[Zippy]

Originally Posted by AfroMullet

..racism is still alive and kickin though i dont care what anyone says.

nobody says it isn't. But it cuts all ways. And blame doesn't go in all one direction. Like I said, education is there for all and some choose not to take it.

I don't see the point of you two coming on this thread just to state its not worth commenting because the other posters are white. And apparently you know so much better because youre black. Ironic that you can't see the racism in that.

We may not be black but we still have awareness of our communities and social surroundings. Sometimes those on the outside have a better view. I grew up in an innercity with huge ethnic diversity. My closest friends at school were black. So Im not exactly ignorant to black culture.

But yeah, how dare white people comment on black culture.

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by AfroMullet

I dont really think this is a forum you will get any answers that actually hold any weight on. Unless there has been a mass serge of black people signin up since i was last here, how can anyone else really give a point of view. That said, im only one person i can speak for us all but still. I'll write up a proper answer tomoro, im tired now, racism is still alive and kickin though i dont care what anyone says.

Umm last time i checked black people are living in the same world as the rest of us, so everyone's opinions and experiences are equally valid. The idea that only a black person's experience can shed light on the problem is just ridiculous. That's like saying a doctor isn't fit to diagnose cancer unless he has cancer himself.

[letmein]

Originally Posted by Zippy

nobody says it isn't. But it cuts all ways. And blame doesn't go in all one direction. Like I said, education is there for all and some choose not to take it.

I don't see the point of you two coming on this thread just to state its not worth commenting because the other posters are white. And apparently you know so much better because youre black. Ironic that you can't see the racism in that.

We may not be black but we still have awareness of our communities and social surroundings. Sometimes those on the outside have a better view. I grew up in an innercity with huge ethnic diversity. My closest friends at school were black. So Im not exactly ignorant to black culture.

But yeah, how dare white people comment on black culture.

You don't know what it's like to be black if you aren't black. Case closed, and there's no racism in saying that. As a white person, you sure are showing the same ignorance you're labeling others with. The irony!

The thread's gonna be closed anyway.

[arista]

Originally Posted by Wildcat!

Thank you! And thats why, I dont even bother responding to these kind of threds anymore, I use to, but it seems to fall into deaf ears.
But the usual suspects, remain the same.

So now, I just read them, shake my head, and laugh!

Spiffing

[Zippy]

Originally Posted by letmein

You don't know what it's like to be black if you aren't black. Case closed, and there's no racism in saying that. As a white person, you sure are showing the same ignorance you're labeling others with. The irony!

The thread's gonna be closed anyway.

oh ffs

you really need to learn what the word ironic means for starters.

As a white person? I wasn't aware giving opinions on this topic was dependent on colour. Silly me. And please do show me where I claim to be speaking from a black perspective?

Forums are about giving your opinion from your own perspective. Do I need to put a disclaimer in every post for those too stupid to figure it out.

And yeah it will be closed if antagonistic tools like you jump on with your usual utterly useless drivel.

[Sunny_01]

There was some very well thought out discussion taking place in this thread.

Please contribute in an appropriate way otherwise the thread will end up locked and that would be sad as this should be a topic that can be discussed in a mature manner.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Sunny_01

There was some very well thought out discussion taking place in this thread.

Please contribute in an appropriate way otherwise the thread will end up locked and that would be sad as this should be a topic that can be discussed in a mature manner.

I totally agree.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by AfroMullet

I dont really think this is a forum you will get any answers that actually hold any weight on. Unless there has been a mass serge of black people signin up since i was last here, how can anyone else really give a point of view. That said, im only one person i can speak for us all but still. I'll write up a proper answer tomoro, im tired now, racism is still alive and kickin though i dont care what anyone says.

I'm a women, and I'm a Jew. Two sections of society that have been discriminated against for centuries... but I'm not black. Do you consider I have a right to speak about discrimination? Or because my skin is white, do you think I don't understand what discrimination is?

[LeatherTrumpet]

Originally Posted by Wildcat!

Thank you! And thats why, I dont even bother responding to these kind of threds anymore, I use to, but it seems to fall into deaf ears.
But the usual suspects, remain the same.

So now, I just read them, shake my head, and laugh!

it would be more gracious of you to just admit you dont have the capacity for the debate rather than hoist yourself up the clackety steps of your ivory tower so you can pontificate to the fictitious well wishers below.

[AfroMullet]

If your not black then you cannot comment on the struggle of a black man or black youth. Its that simple. Can cant even begin to understand someones stuggle unless you have been through it, and its something you never have or ever will go through. Im not saying you dont have stuggles as a white man, asian man, whatever, but the struggles are different. I dont know or understand your stuggle, you dont understand mine.

[AfroMullet]

Originally Posted by Livia

I'm a women, and I'm a Jew. Two sections of society that have been discriminated against for centuries... but I'm not black. Do you consider I have a right to speak about discrimination? Or because my skin is white, do you think I don't understand what discrimination is?

Of course you know what discrimination is, in certain circles Jewish people are seen as devils, there believed to control the world with underground secret socioties, etc etc. Thats your stuggle, i dont know what its like to be called a devil, then i have my own stuggle, you dont know what its like to be called a ****** or a coon. Everyone has a basic understanding of what discrimination and stuggle is, but no one can understand another mans stuggle.

[Shaun]

I don't think race really comes into it. Although from figures I was presented with in my sociology course there seems to be a very high number of single-parent families within the Afro-Caribbean community in the UK, and I guess as the race with the biggest proportion of this (and the (IMO) ensuing disciplinary problems) they usually get the most representation in the media as being troublemakers.

But it's quite easy to see now that urban youth and criminals are hardly of one race. It's down to neglect and class, ahead of race, IMO.