[Jack_]

Technically...no one chooses their country of birth, so is it stupid to be proud of it? Or are there any limits as to how far it should go?

Opinions?

[Scarlett.]

To me, I like this country and what we stand for, but not to the point of waving flags ect.

[Kizzy]

I would like to be proud of it, but then i see MPs fiddling expenses..bankers fleecing..and greedy people looting and i think nah.

[Bollo]

I wouldn't say 'proud' as such but I do love this country, we could all be a lot worse off....

[King Gizzard]

People should be proud of their country and not fear offending people, if they want to

[MTVN]

Doesn't really bother me as long as people don't go overboard, I'm not really patriotic myself but I do like this country and come World Cup, the Ashes etc. I might get the England flags out

[Chuck]

There's nothing wrong with patriotism but I'm not a patriot, I like the country where I was born, I like living in here but I don't get defensive when foreigners say negative things about it and I have no sense of loyalty towards it etc

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Chuck

There's nothing wrong with patriotism but I'm not a patriot, I like the country where I was born, I like living in here but I don't get defensive when foreigners say negative things about it and I have no sense of loyalty towards it etc

This

[Jack_]

See, whilst it's all well and good for everyone to adopt a sense of community spirit, or in this sense national spirit - that sort of attitude doesn't seem to apply when it comes to international spirit, and our love for the planet and its inhabitants. This is where the problem lies for me.

On the whole I think the entire idea of being proud of where you're born, and flashing it around like it's some fancy car is pretty stupid, but it depends how it's done I suppose. Political parties like the BNP disgust me, and their supposed patriotism is just blatant racism and xenophobia, really. I'm all for coming together as a nation when it comes to big events, a bit like the Olympics this year. It's good to be united - but as I've said, the same attitudes never seen to really be applied to the entire world. And this is a problem - because it allows for too much patriotism, where people become obsessed with their country, and start forming xenophobic beliefs and become blinded by their love of it.

I definitely do oppose it in some way, because it just essentially spurs rivalry between other nations...and well, that's not really always a great idea. If people's sense of community spirit was also applied when it came to being proud of this planet and everybody on it, and people could be accepting of that whilst also every now and then adopting some form of competitiveness, then I'd see no problem. Patriotism in its current form...well, it has it's good points like I've listed, but it's often pretty stupid. And of course, like everything, some people have to go overboard.

[nicole_burks]

I like my country, but i'm not going to be all "my country is better than yours."

There's nothing wrong with patriotism, there's just certain ways you should use it I guess.

Some people can be a little over-patriotic and become rather annoying.

[Liberty4eva]

No child chooses their parents or siblings so is it irrational for us to love and be proud of our family members more than the average person? I don't think it's irrational and I don't necessarily see being proud of your country as irrational or stupid.

So is patriotism a good thing? I think it depends on what you mean by patriotism. I am profoundly disgusted by people who will wave a flag, sing patriotic music, and pledge allegiance to a piece of cloth without having the vaguest understanding of their country's history and what their country has traditionally stood for. I am also profoundly disgusted by my fellow countrymen who confuse patriotism with blind obedience to authority. Thomas Jefferson once said dissent is the greatest form of patriotism and if that be the case then I am very patriotic.

It's true that no person chooses the country that they were born in but every country on earth has a story to tell, has a history, has a unique culture, and consequently represents a small piece of humanity. I'm proud of my country's rich history and its accomplishments over the centuries. I don't get all goosebumpy when I hear the national anthem or see a bald eagle but I am proud of my nationality because of the remarkable history that goes along with it.

[Ammi]

Yes, I'm patriotic...of course there is some sh*te with our culture too..but that's the same anywhere. I wouldn't insult the memories or families of those who have given their lives for this country by not being patriotic.....that would feel the same as saying their loss was pointless

[Angus]

It's because of the patriotism of earlier generations, that any of us have the freedoms and privileges we have now. They bought our peace with their blood and tears. Patriotism is the glue that holds us together when we are beseiged, and is not to be confused with Nationalism. I am a patriot, but I am not a nationalist.

George Orwell explains it so much better: http://www.resort.com/~prime8/Orwell/nationalism.html

[swinearefine]

I'm not patriotic at all, and, living in a family of xenophobic nutjobs this leads to me literally having an argument about this every day. There's nothing wrong with being proud of your country, but you should be proud based on an objective look at what the country stands for and what it has achieved, not because you were born there. I'm from America and here it seems like there are only two perspectives on this matter: there are the xenophobes and the ethnophobes, and both of them annoy the sh*t out of me and neither of them have any idea what they're talking about. I don't really consider myself as belonging to any nationality and I see myself just as a person. I like America, I realize it has been very socially backward and hypocritical and its people are overall some of the most ignorant in the world, but I enjoy living here.

[Angus]

Originally Posted by swinearefine

I'm not patriotic at all, and, living in a family of xenophobic nutjobs this leads to me literally having an argument about this every day. There's nothing wrong with being proud of your country, but you should be proud based on an objective look at what the country stands for and what it has achieved, not because you were born there. I'm from America and here it seems like there are only two perspectives on this matter: there are the xenophobes and the ethnophobes, and both of them annoy the sh*t out of me and neither of them have any idea what they're talking about. I don't really consider myself as belonging to any nationality and I see myself just as a person. I like America, I realize it has been very socially backward and hypocritical and its people are overall some of the most ignorant in the world, but I enjoy living here.

So basically, you would like to live in a land with loads of other individuals with no common social fabric encompassing shared values, aspirations, moral codes, ethics, language, etc? How exactly does that work in practice?

Samuel Johnson had it right when he said:

"Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel."

[arista]

Originally Posted by Jack_

Technically...no one chooses their country of birth, so is it stupid to be proud of it? Or are there any limits as to how far it should go?

Opinions?

Are you going Hippie on us Jack?

[Marc]

I can't help but feel happy and proud when England/Britain do well

[Niamh.]

Yes, I'm patriotic, people don't choose where they're born, some of us are just lucky enough to be Irish

[Marc]

^

[Angus]

Originally Posted by Jesus.H.Christ

Samuel Johnson had it right when he said:

"Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel."

Seems old Sammy boy didn't know the difference between patriotism and nationalism either - they are not interchangeable terms.

[Angus]

Originally Posted by Jack_

Technically...no one chooses their country of birth, so is it stupid to be proud of it? Or are there any limits as to how far it should go?

Opinions?

We don't choose our parents and siblings either, does that mean it's stupid to feel loyalty and love for them?

[Jack_]

Your parents have produced you though - they brought you into the world, and you are blood related to your siblings. It's unconditional love. The same ties do not apply when it comes to your association with your country of residence, and the love is nowhere near the same, and so I think it's foolish to try and compare the two.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Jack_

Your parents have produced you though - they brought you into the world, and you are blood related to your siblings. It's unconditional love. The same ties do not apply when it comes to your association with your country of residence, and the love is nowhere near the same, and so I think it's foolish to try and compare the two.

It's where you grew up, it's traditions and the people around you all shape you and make you who you are, what's wrong with having an attachment and a loyalty towards that?

[arista]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Yes, I'm patriotic, people don't choose where they're born, some of us are just lucky enough to be Irish

Yes a Tough Nation in Tough Times.



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