[alex_front2]

There's a very fine line between someone being racist and just harassing someone of another ethnicity/ race as you simply dislike them.

People debated the Shilpa/ Jade racial incidents(personally i think her mum Jackiey, boyfriend Jack, Jo S Club and Danielle 'racist tits' Lloyd who's got away as she's a Daily Star favorite were even worse). Some people saw no racism at all as it wasn't the overt BNP type racism.

Some people said in BB8 that Emily Parr wasn't racist to Charley (even Charley said this) but she said the N-word without intending to offend. I like many found it offensive. But others will say she never meant to hurt Charley.

Now I am in no way implying that Conor or Arron are racists when they target the only person in house of Indian heritage. But it would be impossible to discern whether their treatment of Deana was blind hatred, just general dislike or had other motivations.

[Kate!]

It's a very tricky subject and a minefield to be honest. I so just think that they don't like Deana's personality, bit of a clash. They think she is a snob.

[cfromhx02]

It can often take a while to work out if someone is a genuine racist or not.Of course hardly anyone will admit to it, or be open in how they do it, in fact most won't admit it to themselves.Racism is far more prevalent in the UK than most would admit to.

The only way to be sure if someone is, is to observe how they are around people of a different colour.If that person seems to feel uncomfortable around someone of a different colour and seems to avoid conversation with them or move away when they try to communicate with them then it is a clear sign of racism.

[alex_front2]

Originally Posted by *Kate*

It's a very tricky subject and a minefield to be honest. I so just think that they don't like Deana's personality, bit of a clash. They think she is a snob.

Yes, but so are (white) Scot and to a lesser extent Caroline. They have no problem with them and if anything they are way snobbier than Deana

[lostalex]

i think unfortunately people have confused the meaning of racist. often what people call racist these days is actually just prejudice.

It's like the boy who cried wolf.

What alot of people cry as racist these days, is actually just prejudice.

Racism is an actual ideology, like religion, it's something you believe in. when people use the word racism these days, they are actually talking about prejudice, and prejudice is not the same as racism.

racism is a belief system, a hatred of other races, a belief that other races are inferior to your own race.

What most people call "racism" these days, is actually just prejudice, and every one is prejudice. we all make judgements based on stereotypes, that doesn't mean you are necessarily racist though.

The media has confused the terms.

[Kizzy]

The psychometric tests are supposed to weedle any prejudice out I thought?

[alex_front2]

And there's different forms of racism created nowadays. The old school racism of older generations saying 'bloody foreigners...' g*llywog doll collectors or BNP vitriol is no longer the dominant model.

We have racism on dating sites, gay people have said their sites are the worst 'no chinese, no blacks, no hispanics' (see Douchebag of Grindr NSFW)

Then there are hipster racism (see http://jezebel.com/5905291/a-complet...hipster-racism and http://www.beinglatino.us/politics-2...the-new-trend/ and http://www.racialicious.com/2012/05/...ipster-racism/ ) which is an ironic racism by white highly educated middle class people (as opposed to the stereotype skin head racist). A good example is when Prince Harry introduced his friend as 'My P*ki friend'

For more on Hipster racism see
http://www.alternet.org/culture/1558...errible_values

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1457024.html

Then there are what I call the racist deniers. Whenever you question racism they simply say 'oh stop playing the racist card' to deliberately dampen any debate or investigation which may lead to exposure of their own possible racism.

[lostalex]

Racism is an actual belief system that you are conscious of. It's a choice you make to believe a certain idealogy, just like religion.

Prejudice is different though because it's subconscious. prejudice means you subconsciously have stereotypes about people because of their culture or skin color, it's not an ideology. It's totally subconscious.

being prejudice is not a choice. we are all prejudiced.

Racism is a choice, you choose to believe in a certain ideology to be racist.

you can't help being prejudice, we all are, but you can help being raicst, being racist is an ideological choice, just like choosing to believe in a certain religion.

[daniel-lewis-1985]

Originally Posted by lostalex

i think unfortunately people have confused the meaning of racist. often what people call racist these days is actually just prejudice.

It's like the boy who cried wolf.

What alot of people cry as racist these days, is actually just prejudice.

Racism is an actual ideology, like religion, it's something you believe in. when people use the word racism these days, they are actually talking about prejudice, and prejudice is not the same as racism.

racism is a belief system, a hatred of other races, a belief that other races are inferior to your own race.

What most people call "racism" these days, is actually just prejudice, and every one is prejudice. we all make judgements based on stereotypes, that doesn't mean you are necessarily racist though.

The media has confused the terms.

Thats not the right definition of the boy who cried wolf lol.

Anyway i totally agree that people are to quick to shout racist when infact it may just be a disagreement, ignorance or just prejudice.

The people who cry racism are usually the ones who see colour not person hence that making them more racist than the offender.

[Niamh.]

People who use race against someone or in a negative way are racist. There are also people who uses racist words not intending to insult, I think those people are just ignorant ..........in my opinion of course

[cfromhx02]

Originally Posted by lostalex

i think unfortunately people have confused the meaning of racist. often what people call racist these days is actually just prejudice.

It's like the boy who cried wolf.

What alot of people cry as racist these days, is actually just prejudice.

Racism is an actual ideology, like religion, it's something you believe in. when epople use the word racism these days, they are actually talking about prejudice, and prejudice is not the same as racism.

That's true as in the views of the BNP and the KLU KLUX KLan in the USA of course, which shows true racist belief.

However,having said that, I do think that when someone is uncomfortable around someone and cannot speak to them or moves away that shows real racist belief beneath.

And where do you draw the line.

Of course the Nazis, or groups like the BNP or the Kan we would fight to the death against if we had to to stop them controlling things, however, even with people who are just prejudiced it is still really bad, and it is still racist they way they treat people even if it is just based on ignorance, and blind sheepish following of racism in national papers or by the members of the BNP etc which is actual belief.

That ignorance if allowed to spread can lead to attacks and even murders on more people not just abuse or mal treatment.Racism should be opposed in any guise it exists and opposed at every turn

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by daniel-lewis-1985

Thats not the right definition of the boy who cried wolf lol.

Anyway i totally agree that people are to quick to shout racist when infact it may just be a disagreement, ignorance or just prejudice.

The people who cry racism are usually the ones who see colour not person hence that making them more racist than the offender.

when i say "the boy who cried wolf" i'm talking about people who shout "racism" at every opportunity, for instance whenever a black person has trouble getting a cab, they scream racism. sorry but if you scream racism over not being able to get a cab, that totally dilutes the definition of racism. racism is people who have been killed for the color of their skin, when you scream racism over a waiter not giving you good service, or a taxi cab not stopping for you, it's absolutely just like the boy who cried wolf, because it dilutes the the impact of the word racism.

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by cfromhx02

That's true as in the views of the BNP and the KLU KLUX KLan in the USA of course, which shows true racist belief.

However,having said that, I do think that when someone is uncomfortable around someone and cannot speak to them or moves away that shows real racist belief beneath.

And where do you draw the line.

Of course the Nazis, or groups like the BNP or the Kan we would fight to the death against if we had to to stop them controlling things, however, even with people who are just prejudiced it is still really bad, and it is still racist they way they treat people even if it is just based on ignorance, and blind sheepish following of racism in national papers or by the members of the BNP etc which is actual belief.

That ignorance if allowed to spread can lead to attacks and even murders on more people not just abuse or mal treatment.Racism should be opposed in any guise it exists and opposed at every turn

sorry but yoiu are wrong, because the word racism should invoke true horrors in people, but when you use it to complain about service at a restaurant, well guess what, gay men, women, foriegners, they alll experience discrimination, even white epople dressed a certain way, rednecks get treated differently, so that's not racism, that's just prejudice.

racism should be used to describe a certain type of horrible crime, other wise, it just fits into normal prejudice.

prejudice and racism are NOT the same thing.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by alex_front2

............... which is an ironic racism by white highly educated middle class people (as opposed to the stereotype skin head racist). A good example is when Prince Harry introduced his friend as 'My P*ki friend'

That is not a good example at all. To understand the interaction between Harry and the Asian bloke in question, you'd have to understand military humour. The Asian soldier was not in the least offended, and is a good Friend of Harry's. Other people became outraged on his behalf quite unnecessarily and now I see people are misquoting the incident as "a good example" of racism.

To me, racism - or as lostalex more accurately calls it, prejudice, like many other things, is all about intent. If you intend to hurt, offend or harrass someone, then it's obviously not on. If you're using a term to a friend in an innocent manner - quoting song lyrics for example as Emily Parr in BB did - then it is clearly not racism, even though Charley did her best to pretend to be outraged.

[alex_front2]

Do you remember early this year when NBA US-Korean basketball Jeremy Lin was breaking records and people were saying 'Linsanity' 'We're Linning'. Basically an Asian had the temerity to be as good as the other players who were mainly black American.

[alex_front2]

Originally Posted by Livia

That is not a good example at all. To understand the interaction between Harry and the Asian bloke in question, you'd have to understand military humour. The Asian soldier was not in the least offended, and is a good Friend of Harry's. Other people became outraged on his behalf quite unnecessarily and now I see people are misquoting the incident as "a good example" of racism.

But Harry's friends may not mind but other Asian people will do. And the implication is that people of Pakistani/ Asian origin are worth joking about unlike 'superior white people' who are rarely the but of jokes. Ie non-white people should shut the fack up about jokes know their place. Woe betide if anyone makes a jokes about whites as they are the superior race. Again i think your thinking is a bit offensive tbh.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by alex_front2

Do you remember early this year when NBA US-Korean basketball Jeremy Lin was breaking records and people were saying 'Linsanity' 'We're Linning'. Basically an Asian had the temerity to be as good as the other players who were mainly black American.

Do you think that those people were actually racist though or was it just because you don't often see Asian basketball players that good?

[lostalex]

i've already explained all this in my posts, but yyall are still talking about it. Prejudice is NOT the same as RACISM>

RACISM is a conscious ideology. a racist KNOWS that he is racist.

PREJUDICE is a subconscious stereotype.

Being prejudice doesn't mean you are racist. they are 2 completely different things.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by alex_front2

But Harry's friends may not mind but other Asian people will do. And the implication is that people of Pakistani/ Asian origin are worth joking about unlike 'superior white people' who are rarely the but of jokes.

If other people become outraged because of a reflected indignation, they should seriously pull themselves up. Harry meant no disrespect to his friend and if other people got insulted because they happen to share a skin colour, then they are overthinking it. Of course, you don't mention the bit on the same programme where the rest of his mates were ripping the piss out of Harry because he's ginger. Should ginger people everywhere be outraged because of this? No... because that'd just be daft.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Livia

If other people become outraged because of a reflected indignation, they should seriously pull themselves up. Harry meant no disrespect to his friend and if other people got insulted because they happen to share a skin colour, then they are overthinking it. Of course, you don't mention the bit on the same programme where the rest of his mates were ripping the piss out of Harry because he's ginger. Should ginger people everywhere be outraged because of this? No... because that'd just be daft.

You wait till Marc hears about this

[Livia]

Originally Posted by alex_front2

Do you remember early this year when NBA US-Korean basketball Jeremy Lin was breaking records and people were saying 'Linsanity' 'We're Linning'. Basically an Asian had the temerity to be as good as the other players who were mainly black American.

How is that racist, exactly?

[alex_front2]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Do you think that those people were actually racist though or was it just because you don't often see Asian basketball players that good?

Same thing. Not seeing Asian basketball players as good is racist. You are making an assumption based on race. Alot of people think Koreans, Chinese, Mongolians etc are all the same. Heck loads of people think all Chinese are the same.

White people generally get seen as individuals and judged accordingly. But as soon as a someone who isn't white does something that people haven't seen before 'woahhhhh'. Lewis Hamilton can drive an F1? But his dad's black. Tiger Woods plays golf? But his dads' mixed black. Barak Obama wants to run as US president? Are you sure he's an American?

Conor keeps accusing Deana of playing up to the cameras when she knows she's live on TV. OK nothing wrong with that even though we've seen zero evidence of this and we see live before during and after evictions. However Arron was blatantly playing up to the live TV moment when the nomms were announced ie his weird no more pranks speech. I am not a gambler but I am guessing Conor will say nothing.

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by lostalex

Racism is an actual belief system that you are conscious of. It's a choice you make to believe a certain idealogy, just like religion.

Prejudice is different though because it's subconscious. prejudice means you subconsciously have stereotypes about people because of their culture or skin color, it's not an ideology. It's totally subconscious.

being prejudice is not a choice. we are all prejudiced.

Racism is a choice, you choose to believe in a certain ideology to be racist.

you can't help being prejudice, we all are, but you can help being raicst, being racist is an ideological choice, just like choosing to believe in a certain religion.

I don't see much point in trying to make a distinction between the two, racism is prejudice. By no means does it only count as racism if it's incorporated in a set of political views or ideology, racism can occur in many everyday instances in life, however trivial.

Anyway, no I don't think Arron and Conor are racists for not liking Deana

[alex_front2]

Originally Posted by Livia

If other people become outraged because of a reflected indignation, they should seriously pull themselves up. Harry meant no disrespect to his friend and if other people got insulted because they happen to share a skin colour, then they are overthinking it. Of course, you don't mention the bit on the same programme where the rest of his mates were ripping the piss out of Harry because he's ginger. Should ginger people everywhere be outraged because of this? No... because that'd just be daft.

Harry thinks he's superior. Ripping the p*ss out of hair colour isn't racist as its not a defining white quality. Its prejuduced against people of this hair colour. Not whites.

Refering to people was P**i confers a certain superiority complex.

[cfromhx02]

Originally Posted by lostalex

sorry but yoiu are wrong, because the word racism should invoke true horrors in people, but when you use it to complain about service at a restaurant, well guess what, gay men, women, foriegners, they alll experience discrimination, even white epople dressed a certain way, rednecks get treated differently, so that's not racism, that's just prejudice.

racism should be used to describe a certain type of horrible crime, other wise, it just fits into normal prejudice.

prejudice and racism are NOT the same thing.

Sorry but can we politely agree to disagree. And I of all people don't believe what the media tells me. IN fact I do not watch the BBC news at all now as I know it doesn't cover the most important stories any more and just puts over the viewpoint of the establishment.

I have very left wing views and have been an active member of the left for ages. I know very well about thought control and either ignorant or just plain corrupt versions of terms and events broadcast by our media.

I made my own mind up and I am well educated and have a lot of experience in actually standing up to racism so I know that there are a lot of people who would be called just prejudiced are in fact racist but they won't admit to it, and I said the leaders of those who openly and knowingly admit to it are

the worst, but the sheep or followers who are seen as just prejudiced are also really dangerous and their treatment of others has to be stopped before it spreads as any form of racism if not tackled can lead to attacks and murder eventually, and it's the number of the idiots that just follow and are


prejudiced that is the problem, a few of them will because of other pressures IE financial or work end up actually r hurting

Can we just politely disagree.Notice how I have not just said "No You Are Wrong" at you, although I think you are