[the truth]

this is another area of concern following on from the jimmy saville revelations

why should the sickest most vulnerable in our society rely on the changing whims of charity and celebrity charity raisers

shouldnt over tax revenues pay in full to cover all the care these children need?

only 10 years ago did wales get its own childrens hospital and that needed enormous celebrity input from sir ian beefy botham and catherine zeta jones etc

this should be priority number 1 by the government to pay in full for all the care these children need

charity can be very dangerous, it can be used by governments to cover up the fact theyre not putting enough money away to pay for these essentials, it can in effect be used as bribery by corporations or by perverted old men like jimmy saville, or in america it can be used as a morality car wash by crime bosses and gangsters

in the UK the freemasons always donate to charity, they dont mention how they all became so wealthy in the first place do they?

umpteen charities have been used as vehicles to steal and pilfer and build a fortune for people...I think they can be very dangerous, and I believe it needs to be looked at and children with such illnesses, especially leukemia should have every penny of their treatment paid for by tax payers money, period. they must never again be at the mercy of corrupt people or sick predators like jimmy saville. I pray for them all!

[thesheriff443]

the whole world is corrupt!
we spend more money on how to kill than we do on how to save lifes.
there is is a human cull going on.

[Kizzy]

The headlines a year or so ago focussed on 'charitable donations' by the wealthy, it discussed a cap on how much could be donated.
It was rejected by charities and the arts, why...maybe the 'philanthropic' rich were using their charitable status for tax relief on their income?
Without these donations 1000's of charities would cease to be.

[the truth]

lots of charities are too weak to actually offer the substantial help required
personally I dont believe in over relying on charity
the thought that kids with cancer needed charity in this country makes me sick
tax should cover all of this

[chuff me dizzy]

I think it is obscene that childrens illnesses,hospices ,cancer etc should have to be paid for by charities ,when at the same time Cameron is allowing foreingers free health care on NHS ,If we go on hols we have to pay if not insured, but Cameron has opened the door to the world and his mate to use NHS cash and beds

[Livia]

Originally Posted by chuff me dizzy

I think it is obscene that childrens illnesses,hospices ,cancer etc should have to be paid for by charities ,when at the same time Cameron is allowing foreingers free health care on NHS ,If we go on hols we have to pay if not insured, but Cameron has opened the door to the world and his mate to use NHS cash and beds

I'm not 100% sure it was Cameron who opened the door.

[Shaun]

Aye, he's more of a doorstop if you will. Perhaps the biggest compliment I'll ever pay him.

[Livia]

How much would be enough for sick kids? I mean, if the government were to give enough money to sick children and to hospices and cancer research, how much would be enough? And where should they stop? Should we maybe spend the whole of the pot we get in taxes on it? Would that be enough?

I think there will always be a need for charity. Even if we stopped foreign aid and taxed the rich out of the country, we still wouldn't be able to give enough money to these causes so there will always be charity fundraising.

[chuff me dizzy]

Originally Posted by Livia

I'm not 100% sure it was Cameron who opened the door.

Yes it was

[Kizzy]

I wish I understood the 'tax the rich out of the country' comment.
I always thought that tax payments were representative of income...Thats how it works for those on middle incomes.
Plumbers and electricians who work cash in hand their tax evasion is seen as 'immoral'
Yet those at the highest end are actively encouraged by government to pay less...
There would be more money from central government and less pressure on charities if those that cpuld and should pay their fair share actually did.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by chuff me dizzy

Yes it was

Can't fault a reasoned argument and explanation like that, chuff.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Livia

How much would be enough for sick kids? I mean, if the government were to give enough money to sick children and to hospices and cancer research, how much would be enough? And where should they stop? Should we maybe spend the whole of the pot we get in taxes on it? Would that be enough?

I think there will always be a need for charity. Even if we stopped foreign aid and taxed the rich out of the country, we still wouldn't be able to give enough money to these causes so there will always be charity fundraising.

well firstly they should prioritise it as 1 of the most vital areas to be funded directly by tax. these brainiacs can calculate how many children suffer with leukemia per year and estimate the costs and ensure the costs are covered. if cuts need to be made elsewhere so be it. clearly this has not been a priority as wales for example only had its first ever childrens hospital built in the past 10 years.

we the public need to cajole these complacent politicians into funding this directly and in far greater amounts.

as discussed before, I wouldnt allow breast enlargements on the nhs , i would get troubleshooters into every nhs trust to find the waste, which is enormous. take district nurses, why on earth can they not have time tables and appointments? how many lost hours and wasted appointments do they go to as a result of giving patients no notice?

take occupational therapists, theres loads of them and theyre useless. they actually do more harm than good. take the trust bosses themselves, not a day goes by without endless stories of incompetence and corruption...take the scanning machines |that test for blood clots, pregnancies, mri scanners, kidney machines etc these cost millions and are barely ever used. end result people rolling around in agony for months, waiting for scans, not knowing whats wrong with them. in the mean time they take unnecessary anti biotics, painkillers, medication, block beds, put more pressure on staff and in many cases die.

There were 900 official cases of people dying from blood clots develped whilst in welsh hospitals last year. you can take that number to thousands. they always try to stop people getting a scan for blood clots, they test blood and give you warfrin, but the blood test is not fool proof at all, so you may still have a clot and in many cases people have and theyve died. also theyre not taking time to put stockings on properly

get these people scanned , prioritise the staff needed to use the scanners and get rid of the excess staff who are not specialists in their field. the long term benefits would be huge, reducing enormus costs of bed blocking wasted medication, wasted nursing and cleaning hours, saving lives too

the whole of the nhs needs to redfine its values,personally i think it needs a written constitution which all staff should know off by heart

strengthen the ombudsman and complaints departments dealing with local government incompetence and corruption as well as with the nhs trusts. where incompetence and corruption is rife

this is just one area of concern and 1 area to save money to ensure children with cancer get more than enough to cover their health needs

[Kizzy]

I'm not sure how removing occupational therapy which plays vital role in rehabilitation from many accidents and medica' conditions will help...
Isn't that just robbing peter to pay paul?
The pharmaceutical companies have a case to answer in the costings of many of the medication used in the treatment of cancer, is it ethical to make them so expensive?
It's still a postcode lottery as to whose PCT will fund certain treatments on the NHS.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by kizzy

I'm not sure how removing occupational therapy which plays vital role in rehabilitation from many accidents and medica' conditions will help...
Isn't that just robbing peter to pay paul?
The pharmaceutical companies have a case to answer in the costings of many of the medication used in the treatment of cancer, is it ethical to make them so expensive?
It's still a postcode lottery as to whose PCT will fund certain treatments on the NHS.

Id love a survey in depth, to be done on occupational therapists to see what it is they actually achieve for their salaries. Id also like the patients opinions to be taken into account as the main piece of data in such a survey. from my experience they are a complete and utter waste of time and money and in fact they make the whole process worse.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by the truth

Id love a survey in depth, to be done on occupational therapists to see what it is they actually achieve for their salaries. Id also like the patients opinions to be taken into account as the main piece of data in such a survey. from my experience they are a complete and utter waste of time and money and in fact they make the whole process worse.

I'm sorry your personal experience has been a negative one, i'm sure it's not representative across the UK.
As in everything there are no quick fixes..
What this has to do with donations to cancer charities I don't know.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by kizzy

I'm sorry your personal experience has been a negative one, i'm sure it's not representative across the UK.
As in everything there are no quick fixes..
What this has to do with donations to cancer charities I don't know.

im not talking quick fixes im talking long term fixes, we are simply not looking at long term fixes at all....nhs hospitals try to build equipment cheap from abroad , yet when it breaks down cant get the parts anymore, how long term is that?

as for charity cancer donations it has everything to do with it, sadly most people are so dumbed down, they cant join up the dots.....these dying children were at the mercy of this charity raising pervert because the government were notinvesting enough into childrens medical costs

..every penny the treasury spends on one thing is lost on something else..its called the opportunity costs...if you pay for 1000 breast enlargements then that money will be lost to treating 100 children with leukemaia....the money comes from the same nhs trust pot.......whats wasted on mismanagement, over paid underperforming chief executives, is lost on saving peoples lives.,..the nhs is a business like any other and its way past bankrupt because of all the greed incompetence and often stupidity of some of the staff involved and the politicians running it

[Glenn.]

I couldn't really make sense of the OP but are you saying tax payers should foot the bill fir charities

[Kizzy]

Well I have to agree with one point there, my sis worked as a specialist nurse in Leeds and always said there are far too many staff that are not clinically trained making the decisions on care.
When I mentioned quck fixes I was referring to your experience with the OC, as in you wouldn't be fixed quick
What evidence is there that the NHS are building ikea stylee equipment abroad, Parts? it's specialist equipment not a VW camper haha.

Yes these philanthropic types take the pressure off government to provide adequate funding, where would the NHS be without them is anyones guess...
I agree on the reduction of cosmetic procedures unless there is an underlying medical need.

[Livia]

What a shame that some people are attempting to taint the good work done by charitable organisations all over the country and tarring them with the same brush as Jimmy Savile. I'm not sure whether the suggestion is that we should stop all charity because one of them might allegedly be a pervert? Seems a bit of a knee-jerk reaction.

I pretty much said this in my previous post, so at the risk of repeating myself... if we gave over the entire tax revenue to help sick people, it still wouldn't be enough. The need would expand with the investment.

[Kizzy]

By some people you mean the truth livia? Don't be so reactionary he in a way has a point, those who donate huge sums are given far too much leeway and freedom to make decisions and interfere in the day to day operations of their beneficiaries.
Another good example of this would be Adrian Beecroft.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by kizzy

Well I have to agree with one point there, my sis worked as a specialist nurse in Leeds and always said there are far too many staff that are not clinically trained making the decisions on care.
When I mentioned quck fixes I was referring to your experience with the OC, as in you wouldn't be fixed quick
What evidence is there that the NHS are building ikea stylee equipment abroad, Parts? it's specialist equipment not a VW camper haha.

Yes these philanthropic types take the pressure off government to provide adequate funding, where would the NHS be without them is anyones guess...
I agree on the reduction of cosmetic procedures unless there is an underlying medical need.

the nhs has more leaks than the titanic.

Many of the parts and machines are bought abroad, take a look at the hospital lifts, german built many of them 20 years old, I guranatee its nighon impossible to get the parts and even if they can the cost to keep importing them adds up and takes time. how many man hours and cancelled operations happen as a result of awaiting parts for broken hospital lifts or repairing machines?

Ive been to hospitals where 1 of the lifts was down for 2 months, that meant the sick patients upstairs couldnt be taken for operations and xrays downstairs, it lost hundreds of man hours per week. this is just 1 example of the sheer stupidity thats adding up to wasting billions and more importantly costing lives. its just an endless series of stupid wastefulness. its not about blaming everyone, its the whole culture from top to bottom of waste and mismanagement.

I also do not believe some members fo staff pay enough close attention to the most crucial matters i.e. patient health. how on earth could 900 people (officially, unofficially much more) last year in wales from blood clots develped after they arrived in hospital? thats a figure from the welsh government? imagine how many innocents have died from clots in a country the size of england? this is negligence , plain and simple. the stockings not put on properly or the patient not tested properly on the dopler scanning machines. testing for clots by blood alone is not good enough and doesnt tell you for sure if you have a clot, PLEASE REMEMBER THAT. patients with suspected clots need an immediate scan, if theres a clot they need to be on wafrin IMMEDIATELY or they can die at any moment.

swallow tests. thousands of old people lie in hospital beds unable to eat and drink for weeks. why? well often because the nurses refuse to give them swallow tests to test their swalling reflex. whats a swallow test? a tablespoon of salt and water, it takes 3 minutes. what the heck is wrong with nurses refusing to carry out such a basic procedure? this results in old people virtually starving or in effect dying of thirst.? caring profession right?

where are their bosses/matrons to oversee this?

blaming everything on overwork is no good, if you dont care enough to try and get patients eating and drinking or to ensure they dont have clots, dont be a nurse and dont work for the nhs

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Livia

What a shame that some people are attempting to taint the good work done by charitable organisations all over the country and tarring them with the same brush as Jimmy Savile. I'm not sure whether the suggestion is that we should stop all charity because one of them might allegedly be a pervert? Seems a bit of a knee-jerk reaction.

I pretty much said this in my previous post, so at the risk of repeating myself... if we gave over the entire tax revenue to help sick people, it still wouldn't be enough. The need would expand with the investment.

it would be plenty. the money raised by charities is pitifully small compared to what is collected by treasuries. children with cancer should not be at the mercy of charity donations, all their treatment should be paid for in full by tax payers money on the nhs....you could start saving billions by sacking a load of the wastes of space sititng on trust boards. dreadful people.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by the truth

the nhs has more leaks than the titanic.

Many of the parts and machines are bought abroad, take a look at the hospital lifts, german built many of them 20 years old, I guranatee its nighon impossible to get the parts and even if they can the cost to keep importing them adds up and takes time. how many man hours and cancelled operations happen as a result of awaiting parts for broken hospital lifts or repairing machines?

Ive been to hospitals where 1 of the lifts was down for 2 months, that meant the sick patients upstairs couldnt be taken for operations and xrays downstairs, it lost hundreds of man hours per week. this is just 1 example of the sheer stupidity thats adding up to wasting billions and more importantly costing lives. its just an endless series of stupid wastefulness. its not about blaming everyone, its the whole culture from top to bottom of waste and mismanagement.

I also do not believe some members fo staff pay enough close attention to the most crucial matters i.e. patient health. how on earth could 900 people (officially, unofficially much more) last year in wales from blood clots develped after they arrived in hospital? thats a figure from the welsh government? imagine how many innocents have died from clots in a country the size of england? this is negligence , plain and simple. the stockings not put on properly or the patient not tested properly on the dopler scanning machines. testing for clots by blood alone is not good enough and doesnt tell you for sure if you have a clot, PLEASE REMEMBER THAT. patients with suspected clots need an immediate scan, if theres a clot they need to be on wafrin IMMEDIATELY or they can die at any moment.

swallow tests. thousands of old people lie in hospital beds unable to eat and drink for weeks. why? well often because the nurses refuse to give them swallow tests to test their swalling reflex. whats a swallow test? a tablespoon of salt and water, it takes 3 minutes. what the heck is wrong with nurses refusing to carry out such a basic procedure? this results in old people virtually starving or in effect dying of thirst.? caring profession right?

where are their bosses/matrons to oversee this?

blaming everything on overwork is no good, if you dont care enough to try and get patients eating and drinking or to ensure they dont have clots, dont be a nurse and dont work for the nhs

Well here you go again nurse bashing, they are used as scapegoats as per usual for understaffing and bad management.
It makes me sick.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by kizzy

Well here you go again nurse bashing, they are used as scapegoats as per usual for understaffing and bad management.
It makes me sick.

bad nurses will make you sick , as will bad management, wasteful health boards, try and take a look at the waste thats costing thousands of lives instead of preaching about nurses being angels, try and spare a thought for the sick patients

[Kizzy]

I'm preachy? my gosh...
You started off berating the government then moved to charities,NHS trusts, district nurses,occupational therapists, and now the ward staff...
pfffft!